Mitsubishi vs. Garrett vs. Holset

[audiomaninc]

Why is it that nobody uses a newer Mitsu turbo on their TD? I remember looking into buying a HAHN turbo kit for my Neon, and all they offered were Mitsu turbos. They made something like 400+ hp on the 20g. Not to mention the DSM market that uses Mitsu turbos. What makes a Garrett or Holset a better match for a TD?

[turbovanman²]

AFAIK, there are no upgraded Mitsu turbo's unless you have one custom made and then the cost, it wouldn't be worth it.

As for garrett and Holsets, it comes down to goals, what do you want? What mods, how much boost?

Garrett is good for a solid 250 whp around 20-24 psi, a Holset can do more with less boost.

[audiomaninc]

Hmmm, according to a quick Google search, "DSMtuners.com" states that the 20g Mitsu turbo is good for "around 500hp". Is this a lie, or does it have something to do with a better flowing 16v head?

[Bardo]

its in the head. 20psi in a 16v head is like running 35psi in a 8v head

[contraption22]

its in the head. 20psi in a 16v head is like running 35psi in a 8v head

This explanation is greatly simplified, but...

You are going to need the same amount of airflow for 500hp no matter what head you are using.

So if you are running 20psi on a 16v and 35psi on an 8v, making 500hp either way, you are going to need the same amount of airflow.

So if a tiny turbo is only capapble of flowing enough to make 200hp, it's going to only be able to flow that much air no matter what engine it's bolted to.

[contraption22]

AFAIK, there are no upgraded Mitsu turbo's unless you have one custom made and then the cost, it wouldn't be worth it.

As for garrett and Holsets, it comes down to goals, what do you want? What mods, how much boost?

Garrett is good for a solid 250 whp around 20-24 psi, a Holset can do more with less boost.

Just to clarify, he's not talking about upgrading a mitsu turbo that came of a 2.2/2.5. He's talking about the larger series of mitsubishi turbos that are available through sources like Hahn Racecraft. The use 14, 16 and 20g turbos to make 400+hp SRT-4's DSM's and Ecotechs.

[contraption22]

Why is it that nobody uses a newer Mitsu turbo on their TD? I remember looking into buying a HAHN turbo kit for my Neon, and all they offered were Mitsu turbos. They made something like 400+ hp on the 20g. Not to mention the DSM market that uses Mitsu turbos. What makes a Garrett or Holset a better match for a TD?

To answer your question, I had talked will Bill Hahn briefly about offering upgrades for our cars years ago. At the time, 16v swaps were in their infancy, and most people were sticking with stock type exhaust manifolds and swingvalves. on their 8v's. So that would leave 3 options for offering turbo upgrades for our cars.

1. Offer a an upgraded stock-type Mitsu turbo for our cars, using the OE Mitsu turbine housings. The problem here is that the turbine housing would be VERY restrictive.

2. Come up with a larger turbine housing and swingvalve that would bolt up to our unique exhaust manifold flanges. That's expensive, and a helluva business risk. All of their turbos use a standard Garrett T3 flange, so this would be uncharted territory for them.

3. Fabricate exhaust manifolds that would make their existing selection of Mitsu turbos work on our cars. Fairly expensive, and if made on an as-needed basis, time consuming.

[Shadow]

To answer your question, I had talked will Bill Hahn briefly about offering upgrades for our cars years ago. At the time, 16v swaps were in their infancy, and most people were sticking with stock type exhaust manifolds and swingvalves. on their 8v's. So that would leave 3 options for offering turbo upgrades for our cars.

1. Offer a an upgraded stock-type Mitsu turbo for our cars, using the OE Mitsu turbine housings. The problem here is that the turbine housing would be VERY restrictive.

2. Come up with a larger turbine housing and swingvalve that would bolt up to our unique exhaust manifold flanges. That's expensive, and a helluva business risk. All of their turbos use a standard Garrett T3 flange, so this would be uncharted territory for them.

3. Fabricate exhaust manifolds that would make their existing selection of Mitsu turbos work on our cars. Fairly expensive, and if made on an as-needed basis, time consuming.

You forgot about option #4. Just drill and tap the existing mani for T3 bolt pattern and use the existing turbo's they have. What so hard about that?

[Juggy]

theres a guy doin a 16 or 20g swap on his td here....i cant remember who it was tho.

either or would work nice tho!

[contraption22]

You forgot about option #4. Just drill and tap the existing mani for T3 bolt pattern and use the existing turbo's they have. What so hard about that?

Is there actually enough meat in the OE manifolds to do that? I haven't seen one in a while.

[turbovanman²]

Just to clarify, he's not talking about upgrading a mitsu turbo that came of a 2.2/2.5. He's talking about the larger series of mitsubishi turbos that are available through sources like Hahn Racecraft. The use 14, 16 and 20g turbos to make 400+hp SRT-4's DSM's and Ecotechs.

True on that point too.

Is there actually enough meat in the OE manifolds to do that? I haven't seen one in a while.

Tons, I just don't like how the turbo sits after its done that way so I added a spacer on mine and lowered the turbo, then you can use a stock DP.

[contraption22]

Hmmmm.. well look at that. Makes you wonder why Chrysler decided to go with their own turbine housing design.

Maybe this is a question for another thread, but what was the problem with turbo placement?

[Vigo]

I think Simon used a TIII (16v) garrett there, and my friend Mason (Strax22) did that too.. heres a link from his last van thread.. Basically with the TIII turbo at least, its so close to the intake manifold that we had to grind on it and the turndown piece now can not be removed separately.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=44


It IS possible to put any compressor side on our mitsus that has ever been put on any TD04, afaik, but as mentioned the big reason why nobody does it is because having to reuse the tiny mitsu turbine housing makes it just about pointless.

[turbovanman²]

Hmmmm.. well look at that. Makes you wonder why Chrysler decided to go with their own turbine housing design.

Maybe this is a question for another thread, but what was the problem with turbo placement?

I found with the manifold redrilled, the turbo sat too high and as Vigo said, grinding was needed plus the DP had to be reworked. When I did that, I guessed and the stock DP bolted up, no mods needed.

Maybe Barry knows why Dodge went with their own bolt pattern?

[contraption22]

So perhaps a standard T3 turbine would fit on my TU header.

[turbovanman²]

So perhaps a standard T3 turbine would fit on my TU header.

Didn't Chris make them with enough meat to be redrilled and didn't he actually offer a T3 flange for awhile?

[contraption22]

I think he did for the cast ones. Mine's SS fab'd.

[turbovanman²]

I think he did for the cast ones. Mine's SS fab'd.

Ok. I guess call Chris or have a look to see if he left enough meat.

[Vigo]

Oh yeah, i had to redo the downpipe too...

A bit of advice though... make sure the front mount is bolted together when you do the downpipe, or you'll be getting the downpipe 100% PERFECT... for a position the motor is never actually in.. DOH!