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Thread: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

  1. #81
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 30 PSI SHADOW's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Ok, im interested,this would be for my L body rampage. Although, im confused. If i just want the fronts, what is the total cost?
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    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 PSI SHADOW View Post
    Ok, im interested,this would be for my L body rampage. Although, im confused. If i just want the fronts, what is the total cost?
    If BC makes the full kit then $575. Apparently there is an extra handling charge of $75 for half kits now...

    If they don't offer the real kit then we can do an SRT4 half kit with some adapters that adds another $100.

    -Rich

  3. #83
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Is anybody actually running the SRT spindles on an older FWD Mopar at this point? I think the SRT uses a narrower steering rack, so to run SRT spindles on the older cars you'd have to cut some threads off the inner tie-rod ends and crank the outer ends on further.

    The non-turbo manual trans PT spindles accept the same brake setup and would probably be an easier swap. May end up with better steering geometry as well..

  4. #84
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by daver View Post
    Is anybody actually running the SRT spindles on an older FWD Mopar at this point? I think the SRT uses a narrower steering rack, so to run SRT spindles on the older cars you'd have to cut some threads off the inner tie-rod ends and crank the outer ends on further.

    The non-turbo manual trans PT spindles accept the same brake setup and would probably be an easier swap. May end up with better steering geometry as well..
    That would be interesting as the SRT 4 tracks about the same width as the G bodies. So, way different spindle geometry?

    I'll have to measure the rack now and see if it would indeed be a fit for an L-body.

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  5. #85
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by daver View Post
    Is anybody actually running the SRT spindles on an older FWD Mopar at this point? I think the SRT uses a narrower steering rack, so to run SRT spindles on the older cars you'd have to cut some threads off the inner tie-rod ends and crank the outer ends on further.

    The non-turbo manual trans PT spindles accept the same brake setup and would probably be an easier swap. May end up with better steering geometry as well..
    DodgeZ has SRT front spindles and struts w/ coil-overs on his GLHS. Originally I got the spindles and Wilwood big brake kit off a wrecked Stage 3 SRT that came into the junkyard I was working at then, and we installed it all in the Omni. We used the Neon tie rod ends on the stock rack and pinion w/o having to cut anything. We later removed the Wilwoods (they were 12.2 rotors, his 15" wheels w/ slicks wouldn't fit over them) and installed PT Cruiser front brakes, which are basically the same as the SRT except the calipers don't say Turbo on them . Setup has been working fine for a while now. I think we used a spindle bolt washer (the double-hole one from where the strut attaches, dunno what the real name is for it) on either side of the spindle to take up the slack in the spindle tang (Neon spindle is thinker than an L-body).

    I thinking he made a FAQ/How-To thread about the whole swap on BM, look there for all the details.
    Rob M.
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  6. #86
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    DodgeZ has SRT front spindles and struts w/ coil-overs on his GLHS. Originally I got the spindles and Wilwood big brake kit off a wrecked Stage 3 SRT that came into the junkyard I was working at then, and we installed it all in the Omni. We used the Neon tie rod ends on the stock rack and pinion w/o having to cut anything. We later removed the Wilwoods (they were 12.2 rotors, his 15" wheels w/ slicks wouldn't fit over them) and installed PT Cruiser front brakes, which are basically the same as the SRT except the calipers don't say Turbo on them . Setup has been working fine for a while now. I think we used a spindle bolt washer (the double-hole one from where the strut attaches, dunno what the real name is for it) on either side of the spindle to take up the slack in the spindle tang (Neon spindle is thinker than an L-body).

    I thinking he made a FAQ/How-To thread about the whole swap on BM, look there for all the details.
    I can have some custom spacers made to take up the difference in spindle thickness if people want to run the RT brakes on the SRT4 struts. That way I can sell more brakes.

    The SRT4 spindle should work just fine but I still like the bolt in wheel bearing on the RT spindle. The stock RT brake caliper is 60mm where the SRT4 is only 58mm so you get more brakes with the RT spindle.

    -Rich

  7. #87
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Well it looks like BC is not going to do the full kit for us afterall.

    I called them again today and they said they won't be able to do it.

    I am able to get SRT4 front half kits for $500 plus $75 handing so if people are interested in those that is probably the best best for BC coilovers.

    I also finished drawing up some spacer plates to use the RT spindles with the SRT4 struts. The SRT4 spindle is about .300-.310" wider than the RT spindle so I plan on making two .155" spacers that go on each side of the spindle to adapt it. I drew them to match the shape of the spindle so they will be very hard to see.

    Here is a proposed picture of one:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	RT to SRT4 Spindle Spacer.gif 
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Size:	8.2 KB 
ID:	27618

    I can include a custom top plate for the BC SRT4 coilovers and these adapters for $100 so the cost would be $675 shipped for the BR fronts. The rears are unfortunately not going to happen. I can also get ERs and Inverted struts versions if people want those I just have to check on the pricing of a half kit for the higher end struts.


    I also contacted Ksport today to see what they can do for me. They got some initial bad reviews a couple of years ago but I believe they have fixed many of their problems. I will see if I can work something out with them.

    Who would be interested in Ksports instead of BCs if I can get a full kit from them?

    -Rich

  8. #88
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Depnding on price I would be interested

  9. #89
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by omni_840 View Post
    Depnding on price I would be interested
    KSports should be about the same prices as bc they also have inverted and external reservoir versions of their stuff.

  10. #90
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Can you not adapt/have them adapt their DSM coil-overs? We've already installed them successfully on L-bodies. Very little mods necessary.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  11. #91
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    Can you not adapt/have them adapt their DSM coil-overs? We've already installed them successfully on L-bodies. Very little mods necessary.
    You can order a half kit if you want to I was trying to get everything bolt on and it got shut down. The non lbody rear was probably what really killed us because it would take a lot more work than the lbody rear.

    The eclipse rears weren't quite the right lengths off the shelf and they also had the top nut problem (where it wasn't long enough but I have since solved that with the mag lugnut). I was trying to use a VW bottom on the eclipse stuff in order to get the perfect bottom mount without needing any type of spacer so perhaps that became the length issue but I doubt it. They would have worked but they would not have allowed any lowering.

    At any rate they don't want to mix and match anymore so unless you want to chance it by buy an eclipse rear kit and an SRT4 front kit the Ksports are the next option.... I bet if they start seeing orders for a front half kit for one car and a rear half kit from another car from the same person that it will also get shut down pretty quickly....

    The Eclipse shocks also have the wrong spring hats/mounts so it would still require extra parts... So basically I did go down that road.

    -Rich

  12. #92
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    The dsm fronts would bolt right on if they widened the flange opening slightly and drilled the SRT bolt pattern into it. Or if they just put the SRT flange onto the DSM strut. You just remove the third stud in the top hat and the other 2 will pretty much go right into the existing holes, possibly very slight slotting needed. I have DSM fronts bolted in my GLHS right now, I just added a new lower hole.

    The rear is pretty easy to convert too, but I'd have to assemble one again to tell you exactly. Basically just have to install the L-body top hat. If you want I can do this if it will help get a kit made up. T3rse has DSM struts all way round in his GLH-T also, although I don't think he's online much anymore due to school/work.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  13. #93
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    The dsm fronts would bolt right on if they widened the flange opening slightly and drilled the SRT bolt pattern into it. Or if they just put the SRT flange onto the DSM strut. You just remove the third stud in the top hat and the other 2 will pretty much go right into the existing holes, possibly very slight slotting needed. I have DSM fronts bolted in my GLHS right now, I just added a new lower hole.

    The rear is pretty easy to convert too, but I'd have to assemble one again to tell you exactly. Basically just have to install the L-body top hat. If you want I can do this if it will help get a kit made up. T3rse has DSM struts all way round in his GLH-T also, although I don't think he's online much anymore due to school/work.
    I know the details but they aren't going to do it. I don't like the dsm fronts because if someone goes this far with things then imo they should also get the newer brakes with the thicker stronger spindle.

    If you would like the full dsm kit then you can order it from my webpage.

    -rich

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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbryant View Post
    Well it looks like BC is not going to do the full kit for us afterall.
    I can pick up where i left off if you want Rich. I backed out of what i was doing because of the prospect of just ordering them from you. Im not interested/don't have time and am on the wrong continent to be selling them, so if a good setup can be got together over here for the non-L bodies F&R, lets do it and get a batch shipped over. I did all this 5+ years ago as a one off setup for my Z before my workshop was broken into. If i was to use GAZ again, they are local and use the car to develop the perfect valving for us and we can go as far as we want with setup options. They DO NOT manufacture camber plates usually so your ones would be ideal to match up. We would use my RT for developing them, which is pretty much the heaviest car right?

    Don't give in yet, this is one of the biggest lacking areas of tuning for our cars.

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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbryant View Post
    I know the details but they aren't going to do it. I don't like the dsm fronts because if someone goes this far with things then imo they should also get the newer brakes with the thicker stronger spindle.

    If you would like the full dsm kit then you can order it from my webpage.

    -rich
    The L-body spindle is thicker than the DSM... but whatever. I don't have the money to buy a kit, otherwise I would have done it long ago. I was just trying to help out Anyway, no worries, if they aren't interested there's only so much you can do.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  16. #96
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    The L-body spindle is thicker than the DSM... but whatever. I don't have the money to buy a kit, otherwise I would have done it long ago. I was just trying to help out Anyway, no worries, if they aren't interested there's only so much you can do.
    I understand that you are trying to help but I have already been down the road. Even with them not having to modify anything they don't want to mix and match parts. The main office felt that there were too many warranty and liability issues unless they fully tested the setup. I offered to test it and they still didn't want to deal with the hassle for less than 20 kits.

    Exactly there is only so much I can do. There are some other issues that make colivers harder to adapt than normal struts:

    They have to have the correct angles on the top plates or the camber adjustment doesn't work.
    The strut shafts are machined specifically to the spring hats and mounts. On the normal ones you can just slide them farther down the shaft but that doesn't work so well on a coilover. The other issue is that we only have about 4-5" of travel on a coilover and then it adjusts the height seperately. If you do something to cut into the travel with the mount it really messes things up.

    -Rich

    ---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Garffus View Post
    I can pick up where i left off if you want Rich. I backed out of what i was doing because of the prospect of just ordering them from you. Im not interested/don't have time and am on the wrong continent to be selling them, so if a good setup can be got together over here for the non-L bodies F&R, lets do it and get a batch shipped over. I did all this 5+ years ago as a one off setup for my Z before my workshop was broken into. If i was to use GAZ again, they are local and use the car to develop the perfect valving for us and we can go as far as we want with setup options. They DO NOT manufacture camber plates usually so your ones would be ideal to match up. We would use my RT for developing them, which is pretty much the heaviest car right?

    Don't give in yet, this is one of the biggest lacking areas of tuning for our cars.
    I am not giving up yet. I am just going to switch companies.

    I am going to see what Ksport has to offer.

    They are local to me so I can go to their shop compare struts in person, etc and that should make it happen.

    Ksport had some issues a few years back but I believe that they have upgraded significantly since then.

    BC just simply doesn't have the time or staffing to deal with us because they are looking to expand their line to newer cars not older ones.

    The guy at Ksport seemed initially interested so hopefully that will go well.

    -Rich

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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Yeah the whole ethos of BC is to keep the overheads to an absolute minimum, to keep the price down... I spoke with KSports HO in Taiwan where the units are manufactured, they are who i was heading towards post GAZ. They have been through all this with me. They are all but ready to build them, i just didn't pull the trigger. They have a lot of options available to us including super-light weight drag only setups, massive travel and super strong gravel / rally bodies and obviously the street and track setups. They are very helpful and obliging people. The only thing i didn't like so much was that i could not have the cartridges valved to the car, it would have to be done on educated guess work rather than the electronic systems GAZ use to give real world research for high speed, mid speed and low speed bump, h, m & low speed bound, reaction time, volume etc etc etc....

    The UK KSport dealer has pulled out of supplying their coilovers because of complaints, that are all about noise and clonking, which is down to the top mount, and will be the same on any pillow ball mount that experiences heavy use, or just bad roads like we have here. Takes less than 1thou to make them rattle like a roll bar drop link is dead, or your suspension is literally falling apart. Your probably aware of all this, but i know ksport are having (or were having) real issues with what must have been too soft a material for the spherical mount, but it is not damage, they will just always be like that, a bit clunky!

    We love importing Jap motors here, that all clonk within 2-3 weeks because of the JIC or HKS or whatever coilovers with hard top mounts that have been fine for the last 5 years cruising round glass smooth jap roads, but destroy themselves when they hit a pothole. You can get round it with exotic materials for lining the pillow, but you end up building a bloody expensive kit...

    Anyway, i like KSport and they are bloody good value!

    If you don't get on with the local people, go to the source, they all speak Ing-lish and want their coilovers on every car in the world! I was told short runs of 10 or more are acceptable, but obviously get a lot cheaper with volume...

  18. #98
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor Austrian Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    i'm still in, wether its KSports, BC or GAZ

  19. #99
    Basic Vendor (MSD, Hawk, etc) Turbo Mopar Contributor rbryant's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Austrian Dodge View Post
    i'm still in, wether its KSports, BC or GAZ
    Ok I will let you guys know... I might start fresh Ksport thread...

    If you happen to want SRT4 fronts I can get those now. If you want to you can run those with SRT4 spindles and all you would need is the top plates. BC SRT4 top plates can also work but they don't have any caster adjustment.

    If you want RT spindle spacers and a camber/caster top plate I can make those.

    -Rich

  20. #100
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor Austrian Dodge's Avatar
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    Re: Official BC Coilover Kit Development Interest.

    i currently have my hands on some srt4 spindles from another member on here, just waiting on a shipping quote. I guess i can use my existing tie rod ends and ball joints, no?
    I'd run the SRT fronts with your top plate then - and most likely the ER series.

    But i can wait a couple of weeks for the other manufactures decision, as i need to finish some other things anyways. so there's no need to rush from my end.

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