is there any advantage to be gained from ceramic coating the inside of a manifold? and how about inside the turbine housing itself?
or would this be too much heat for the turbo?
is there any advantage to be gained from ceramic coating the inside of a manifold? and how about inside the turbine housing itself?
or would this be too much heat for the turbo?
Coating the exhaust tract starting at the head preserves the heat for the turbo. This makes for a faster spool-up. Furthermore, it reduces the underhood temps and makes the rest of the car last longer. Highly recommended.
ps I do that work.
Mike
how much do you charge to do this?
If the turbo is disassembled and you are just sending me the parts to be coated, $40 for the scroll & swingvalve. This involves sand blasting inside and out, then applying the ceramic thermal barrier coating to the insides and the titanium high-temp coating to the outside. For a manifold, $25 with the same 2-part coating process.
Mike
(717) 438-3767
how tough is that stuff??
if you sandblasted the ceramic coating would it come off?
The titanium coating is extremely tough. I dropped a manifold on the concrete floor and it didn't even mar the finish (by accident, of course). I never tried sand blasting the ceramic coating off so I can't honestly answer your question. I know that it is intended for the combustion chamber so it should be fairly durable.Originally Posted by TurboBuggy
Mike
Well the reason I ask is I have a turbo engine in my sandrail and when I go to the dunes everything gets basically sand blasted from driving through the sand, I want the turbo to look nice instead of all rusty and the only thing I can think of is to have it ceramic coated. But I dont want to spend a load of money and have it go to waste
Do you run a 2.2/2.5 in your rail? I am curious about your setup.
My cousins GLHS was extensively coated over last summers rebuild. He is a very quite guy. All I can get out of him is that is gas milage has been well into the 30's. and it is a huge performance increase. We usually end up on other topics from that point of the conversation.
Jason
Dave Zelkowski from our dyno wing had posted this information many many years ago.
"Ceramic coated pistons and the other piston questions
I've been through the various coatings, testing them on the touring car engine and found no gain that can be measured. I've tested coated rods, pistons, blocks, cranks, valves, ports, heads, bores, pumps and haven't found any MEASURABLE performance increase. I'm only looking at an increment of 1/2 lb-ft. That's as small an increment that I can repeat on our dyno. The only coating that has worked is one that we use on the bearings. It helps durability.
In my experience, these coatings on pistons keep more heat in the cylinder and make it more detonation prone. It hasn't worked in the Touring Car engines."
There you have it from our engine/dyno expert. My experience during engine design has been very limited with coatings.
Thanks!
Garry W. McKissick
2005 SRT6 Crossfire - 13.54 @ 105.88mph
There was a post on TD from somebody that did the coatings and noted that his turbo engine was less prone to detonation. If nothing else, the pistons are more durable with the coatings. Turbos spool up faster with the exhaust ports and manifold coatings. Is it possible that your dyno friend was working on open chamber (lousy designed) head NA engines? That would certainly explain his results.
Mike
Data would be best to back up these claims, could you post a link to that post - I"d like to read it. Having two engineering degrees and having designed / calibrated / manufactured engines for my whole career, after writing an SAE paper on the 2.4L Chrysler Turbo engine, I find it hard to believe anything without data. Anyone that knows me, knows I'm big about getting the data. Just like I wrote the article on installing a Conquest Intercooler into a CSX-T - data doesn't lie.
To say the turbo spools quicker is just butt dyno talking, install some accelorometers to see if it really truely improved spool up conditions? Put some kissler probes in a head and measure combustion, or k-type thermocouple for temps.
As Ed Peters used to always say "theres no magic in a can". The durability will improve with coatings yes I'll agree to that - we've seen it. Pistons side walls are coated to be able to keep cold start piston noise at a minimum - plus it helps in the side loading of the piston.
Sorry if I went off topic, just trying to shed some light on the whole coating issue.
Thanks!
Garry W. McKissick
2005 SRT6 Crossfire -- 13.54 @ 105.88mph
Excellent post Gary. I know when I do my TIII, I'll get things coated to keep the underhood temps down. If it comes out that I get a little more advantage, then cool,
1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS!12.57@104 :O)
1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.
Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info
Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info
I recall speaking with Ed at Carlisle a few years ago. We were looking at my car when I asked him about the coating deal. He told me the same thing you stated Garry, "You'll gain zero HP, but durability will be improved. Plus, the car will be more consistant in the heat." I never had any issues being consistant in the heat without the coatings personally.
I never had luck with the Jet-Hot coatings staying on. I had them do my exhaust manifold with their 2000 degree coating. It pealed off the inside. The outside stayed. It sure looked good for a while though.
Steve M.
mpgmike-interested in doing a turbine hsgm swingvalve, exh manifold, and the runners on an intake manifold? Total price? I will pay shipping both ways .
Mike, please follow the rules of the board. You are not a vendor here. If you would like to be a vendor, we can talk. It could be very benificial to your sales, etc.
Please edit your post.
Frank
Frank Katzenberger
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Didn't mean to start anything...sry.
Mike, why is the intake manifold not recommend?
1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS!
1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.
Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info
Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info
Just an FYI ....
You can coat your compressor housing with a material that will actually be formed to fit the compressor wheel. What happens is you coat the housing and the wheel will actually form to the housing and close up the clearances. This has been seen to give a 2-4% improvement in Turbocharger efficiency on the Compressor map. If i remember the exact name of the material, i'll repost here - but right now it escapes me.
Garry W. McKissick
2005 SRT6 Crossfire -- 13.54 @ 105.88mph
2005 SRT6 Crossfire -- Wifes Daily Driver
2006 Jeep Commander -- Family Transporation
2002 Dodge Neon - All show, no go
I couldn't find any icons that led me to an edit page. I will not openly post such matter any more. Sorry for the infringement.
Mike
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