Ignition Tune Up New Parts

[rpmguy]

Hey, I want to do a nice ignition tune up on my car. Im thinking about a new or remand distributor, Chrysler coil, And new HEP. Where do I get a good new or rebuilt distributor? I dont want a China knock off? Going to buy factory cap , rotor, hep, and coil. Thanks 90 shadow 2.5

[prepared]

Not sure on the dizzy quality, but I do know a new one comes with a HEP.

[rpmguy]

A new one from where?

[prepared]

A new one from where?

Sorry, shouldn't have said NEW. Actually REMAN.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2780&ppt=C0334

Lifetime warranty. Does that include the HEP? Interesting.

[rpmguy]

Thanks , may just try one.

[rbryant]

If the car is running reliably it is doubtful that changing the distributor, coil, or HEP will have any effect.

Usually when the HEP fails the car will stop running when either hot or cold or fail to run intermittently. Oil filled coils are pretty reliable as long as they aren't mounted on the engine (which can destroy them due to vibrations).

The distributors are so simple that it doesn't matter if they are mopar or reman. In some cases the reman ones are better because some of them come with actual rivets that hold the shutter wheel instead of the plastic connection that tends to get loose over time.



I would change out the spark plugs to new ones I like Champion RN11Yc4s as one step colder than stock (they have to be re-gapped though). The stock RN12yc plugs are just fine for almost everyone.

The stock style distributor caps are all pretty much the same because the only metal component in them is the center terminal that isn't an arcing contact point so it really doesn't wear out. Getting a brass center is SLIGHTLY better than aluminum but in reality it doesn't matter at all and it costs 2-3 times more for the cap. The only way I feel that you can upgrade the cap is to modify it to use brass terminals and HEI spark plug wire connections (something I offer).

Spark plugs wires can be upgraded and are the best bang for the buck with the ignition system. Depending on what you want to do I can sell you a set of MSD wires with a modified distributor cap to fix the issues of the terminals being on the spark plug wires. Connecting the terminals to the plug wires was a cost cutting measure that they did in ~1982 and it makes the plug wires wear out and also requires you to remove the cap in order to change the plug wires properly. I find that it is more common to have the stock style terminals come off from the wires. Simon and FWD Performance offer stock style wires. Of course I think mine are the best but they are all better than stock wires.

-Rich

[sdac guy]

Good info and suggestions Rich

Barry

[rpmguy]

Rich, I have looked at your modded cap. (look nice) but How do I buy another one in the future if you quit making them. Do you use the stock rotor? Another crazy idea I had was, If I always had a cylinder show a little knock and dropping base timing fixed it, Could you offset one of the posts in the cap to retard a certain cylinder .Like VW used to do. Just a thought, may never do it thou, just thinking. Might be alot of trial and error. Or could you make offset pins like eccentric.

[rbryant]

Rich, I have looked at your modded cap. (look nice) but How do I buy another one in the future if you quit making them. Do you use the stock rotor?

If I stop making them I will give the information on how I make them.

If I get hit by a large truck and fail to give out the information before my ultimate demise there are a couple of people that know how I make them that can post the information at that time.

Plus there are already a couple of them out there with 100k miles on them that still don't need to be replaced. The brass terminals are very durable.

Yes they use a stock rotor.

Another crazy idea I had was, If I always had a cylinder show a little knock and dropping base timing fixed it, Could you offset one of the posts in the cap to retard a certain cylinder .Like VW used to do. Just a thought, may never do it thou, just thinking. Might be alot of trial and error. Or could you make offset pins like eccentric.

Electronic ignitions don't work that way so it would do nothing.

The rotor aligns with the cap contact as the engine spins but a spark is created only when the computer discharges the coil. The computer has complete control of the spark during the time that the rotor and cap terminal are aligned. It knows when to spark based on its programming and information on the engine cycle from the HEP. The time that it fires is much narrower than the width of the actual cap terminal.

I don't think that our engine controllers actually have independent control over the timing of each individual cylinder.

-Rich

[Aries_Turbo]

It knows when to spark based on its programming and information on the engine cycle from the HEP. The time that it fires is much narrower than the width of the actual cap terminal.

I don't think that our engine controllers actually have independent control over the timing of each individual cylinder.

-Rich

if the HEP trigger wheel was modded so that it triggered a spark later as it spun, this would work. i wouldnt try it though. you probably need to do some coolant system mods so an individual cyl doesnt run hotter than the rest. see the knowledge center for info.

the controllers can control individual cyl timing but only when it detects knock for that cyl.

i bet the code could be modded to use the knock retard functions to make timing individually adjustable but its not something i can accomplish.

Brian

[rpmguy]

Thanks Rich, I should have thought about it harder with electronic ignition and dizzy. Was thinking points dist.

[rpmguy]

Rich , what do you think the weakest part of our ignition system is? Lets say the car was brand new,(factory ignition) and you are high boost. what part will start to break up first.

[ShelGame]

the controllers can control individual cyl timing but only when it detects knock for that cyl.

i bet the code could be modded to use the knock retard functions to make timing individually adjustable but its not something i can accomplish.

Brian

You could, but why would you want to? The computer does that automatically. I don't think you really want to tweak the individual cylinder timing too much. More than a degree or 2 and you can start to feel the difference in engine vibration.

[rbryant]

Rich , what do you think the weakest part of our ignition system is? Lets say the car was brand new,(factory ignition) and you are high boost. what part will start to break up first.

Hmm at high boost?

Honestly, the plugs will probably need a closer gap so the spark doesn't blow out.... Then you will need a colder plug to avoid pre-ignition.

Then after a while the stock plug wires will fail because they don't have very good insulation. They also get brittle after a while and break down internally and then you need new ones.

Plug wires and caps don't create more spark they just keep you from losing it.

Having the lower resistance wires will help a little but it is really more about how long they last. The brass terminal cap should also be a little better spark wise but I did them mainly because the stock terminals are designed for 7mm wires and don't fit into caps well when used with 8.5mm wires. Additionally the crimp area on the stock terminals is very small and they tend to pull off all of the time.

I made stock style MSD wires for a while but they were always a headache for me. They didn't fit into the caps well and the wires had to be trimmed back and looked ugly. Plus trimming them back made the crimp even weaker which when compounded with the tight fit made the terminals come off way too easily....

With the modified cap I can use a terminal that actually fits the 8.5mm wires and has a much better crimp connection so the wires last a lot longer. They can also come off from the cap without removing the cap which is also really nice. I recently changed the terminal I use on the wires so that it is a half inch crimp section instead of the standard 1/4" crimp to make them the most solid wires ever for our cars.


The low resistance wires are also needed if you use an aftermarket capacitive discharge ignition system. The high resistance wires will get too hot (resistance = heat) and fail with the CDI much faster than low resistance wires. That is why MSD created the copper core superconductor wires in the first place... This is also why I think that Magnecor is full of crap when they try to say their high resistance wires are a good thing.

The truth of the matter is that you can't expect magic from your spark plug wires but you can look for something that will be reliable and last a long time for pretty much any ignition system.

-Rich

[Aries_Turbo]

You could, but why would you want to? The computer does that automatically. I don't think you really want to tweak the individual cylinder timing too much. More than a degree or 2 and you can start to feel the difference in engine vibration.

i wouldnt want to. it was just a comment to let rich know that the ecu controls timing cyl by cyl.

id rather get the external conditions right (flow, coolant temp/pressure, etc) so that each cyl can handle the same amount of timing advance.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

I don't think that our engine controllers actually have independent control over the timing of each individual cylinder.

-Rich

Yep, they can.


All good advice, some caps do have a larger carbon button, I do prefer those. Coils, seems OE are the way to go and definately OE on the HEP, aftermarkets are JUNK. No need to replace the dizzy unless the vanes are loose.

For plugs, I like to run NGK or Denso Iridiums and the Autolite AR51 is also a nice plug,

[rpmguy]

Does anybody know what the part# is for the factory coil . Mine is working but I would like to slowly change out components in my ignition over time. Thanks for replys

[rbryant]

Yep, they can.

Ok but how much do they really adjust it?

Knock sensors are notoriously unreliable and we don't have sensors to monitor heat or mixture by cylinder.

-Rich

[puppet]

Gonna put a plug in for NGK's "GR5" V power spark plugs. Only plug I've ever used that didn't need the gap narrowed down below .030" running 25psi boost.

[Aries_Turbo]

Ok but how much do they really adjust it?

Knock sensors are notoriously unreliable and we don't have sensors to monitor heat or mixture by cylinder.

-Rich

all of my knock sensors have worked great ..... when i am really pushing it, it may pull a deg or two but if i get a bad tank of gas or when they switch from the summer to winter gas mixes, it will really start pulling timing... then i know i need to adjust the timing curves.

the factory system is setup to be able to pull up to 15deg of timing from any and each cyl as needed.

i hook up my otc and can watch each cyl's knock retard levels.

Brian