Yep ... the TC takes more of the "shock". A vans CG isn't like a cars either ... can't go by those.
What helped me here a little bit was to take those two "shims" out of the passenger side under the mount. That puts a little more weight over that wheel. Might be equal to what a battery move would do weight wise.
Very true. Actually, I DO have some OLD street tires on Charlotte that won't be any good to drive on and are the correct wheel and tire size for what I already have on the car! Hmmm....Originally Posted by turbovanman
Used tires, you should be able to get those for almost free,
Thanks! I'm feeling the love! LOL
So you're of the thinking that stiffer springs and corresponding damper settings are the only way to go?
I agree, but in order for me to get away with that I'm going to have to get coil overs and revamp the entire suspension because I don't want to disturb the balance of the car. This IS on my "to do" list, but it either requires me winning the lottery or waiting until I've graduated and have found a nice job. Anybody got a scoop on how to rig the lottery!?
My '90 Daytona (V6/auto), '89 LeBaron (TI-TII/auto), and my '92 Shadow (V6/5-speed) never had this issue and they were all double pivot. The '90 had the exact same suspension under it, but it didn't have the solid engine mounts or poly pivot bushings, and ove course it was an auto. It seems maybe there is something to the auto thing making for easier launches. I can tell you that my van was a burn out machine! It was SO much easier to do a burn out in that thing. The car makes WAY more power and it's still hard to get them smoking well. I onlt tried on my old tires though...these cost me too much, so no smoking them on purpose for me!
Ah...not gonna happen in this car. If it were a drag car, I would agree 100%, but I like to turn and such.
I agree on the van thing for sure.
I don't have the shims anymore because I'm using all of PB's engine mounts and they get eliminated using them.The cross weight bias of the car was VERY good before I replaced the stock sized battery with the little PC680. I haven't reweighed the car, but I'm sure that it threw it off a little. Having the OBX kinda makes up for it...at least going straight. I'm not good enough to be able to notice any large difference in the twisties, but I'm sure there is *some* difference.
If you figure out how to win the lottery, I only ask for a small amount. $4-$5 would be fine, I'm not greedy.
Bryan
86 GLHS #161, 2016 Impala
SDAC National Member, SDAC Buckeye Chapter Member
A man has got to know his limitations.....
what about using airshocks in the back? It wouldnt cure the problem all of the time, but if you know your going to be driving spiritedly you could pump them up.
95 spirit 3.0/543 15.0@91 N/A, 14.5@96 on a 50 shot RIP 87 shelby Z - project car, maybe I can drive it this year 91 spirit - roll it, chop the top, do some burnouts! RIP
I need to get my new daytona up and running to make sure my statement is 100% correct but you've probably seen my spherical bearings in the a-arms and at certain times I had severe wheel hop. In fact it's why I parked, returned to stock and sold my t-top tona. The wheel hop doing a burnout in the Autozone parking lot broke the axle.
My 87 Auto New Yorker with the 89/90 supsension on stock bushings doesn't wheel hop with stock sloppy bushings. I'm leaning towards it's not the suspension that's causing it.
It's my understanding that wheel hop is caused by the drivetrain loading and unloading. I fixed this by adding a solid bobble strut and relocating the battery to the passenger side to help even the weight across the front wheels.
I only get wheel hop in the wet now. Makes no difference if it's street tires or slicks, I have zero hop on dry pavement.
Lower tire pressure (in the front, dur). I know it won't help when you are driving around and happen to roll up on a 5 liter notch. You'd look pretty silly jumping out at a light and airing down your tires. But if you know you're going to be hitting the cruise night.
Number one mod is usually a driver mod. Less side-step of the clutch and more walk it our hard. I proved it to myself over 10 years ago when rice was in all it's fast and furious glory. I'd line up on the street with a similarly quick (almostI've never had anyone (front drive) pull away from me with his street tires up in smoke.
If you want to spin your tires (to show off) treat your clutch like a 2 stage. I don't know how else to say it. Start off like the street race launch I mentioned above. When you get to about 5 mph then jump off the clutch.
I don't have anywhere near the same setup as you have, but I've had a few Daytonas over the years and similar techniques have worked on all of them. I'm the weirdo who ALWAYS does a burnout by rolling in reverse first, then hitting first. I never hop like that. Burnout from a dead stop, I'll usually hop.
Good luck,
Ron
Ever had an alignment? thats the only thing I can think of
Less greedy than me! I usually say I want $100! LOLIf you figure out how to win the lottery, I only ask for a small amount. $4-$5 would be fine, I'm not greedy.
If it were a drag car I'd do it in a heart beat! I even have two to do it on another car.
OK. Well, that leaves driveline and tires. I don't think the driveline is causing an issue, so that narrows it down to the tires. I suppose it's just trying to launch on sticky street radials that is a no-no. I actually can live with that. I'll just not do it....simple!
Yeah, I thought the same things, hence the solid bobble strut and engine mounts along with the poly a-arms bushings. I still have the issue.
Yeah, I don't really go out hunting or cruising any more. I simply don't have the money for gas, nor the interest as tickets simply aren't worth it. It's just every now and then I like to have some fun with my car. Eventually I'd like to go back to the drag strip to attmept to go for the 13's on street tires. I have to be able to launch it to get there however. Thanks for the luck...looks like I'm going to need it!Lower tire pressure (in the front, dur). I know it won't help when you are driving around and happen to roll up on a 5 liter notch. You'd look pretty silly jumping out at a light and airing down your tires. But if you know you're going to be hitting the cruise night.
Number one mod is usually a driver mod. Less side-step of the clutch and more walk it our hard. I proved it to myself over 10 years ago when rice was in all it's fast and furious glory. I'd line up on the street with a similarly quick (almost
If you want to spin your tires (to show off) treat your clutch like a 2 stage. I don't know how else to say it. Start off like the street race launch I mentioned above. When you get to about 5 mph then jump off the clutch.
I don't have anywhere near the same setup as you have, but I've had a few Daytonas over the years and similar techniques have worked on all of them. I'm the weirdo who ALWAYS does a burnout by rolling in reverse first, then hitting first. I never hop like that. Burnout from a dead stop, I'll usually hop.
Good luck,
Ron
Yup, just had it readjusted. -1* camber 0 toe. The alignment before this one was more agressive: -1.5* camber 1/8 total toe out. I set it up for a track day and just never got around to making it more street friendly until now.
Tire pressure is a factor. It's probably why things are a lot better on drag slicks.Lower tire pressure (in the front, dur). I know it won't help when you are driving around and happen to roll up on a 5 liter notch. You'd look pretty silly jumping out at a light and airing down your tires. But if you know you're going to be hitting the cruise night.
What you have is an oscillator holding your front wheels on the ground, the resonant frequency of which is determined by numerous factors including spring rate, swaybar size and unsprung weight. If you feed the oscillator with energy, it will oscillate, maybe at it's fundamental frequency or a harmonic.
You can either change the frequency of the oscillator, or damp the oscillations, preferably a little of both to find out what is right for your car.
This would by why a bunch of folks swear one thing worked for them, another swear by something else and a thrid group by something different. Paradoxically, the things recommended by one group may counteract the things recommended by another, so if you do "everything" you might put yourself right back where you were.
For example a heavier unsprung assembly, like heavy wheels will cause the oscillation period to be longer. Go to lighter wheels and the period gets shorter, might move it out of any resonant modes, BUT, then go and put higher rate springs in as well and you might move it back to a different harmonic of the frequency you were having problems with.
In general you'd think the shorter period would be better, but then due to the difference in periods being relatively small you end up with a load of harmonics packed in a "narrow" range so to speak, so that fractions of throttle and minor tire PSI differences can have you in and out of fundamental and harmonic resonant modes.
Damping would be a better approach, unfortunately for the autocrossers and track day enthusiasts, the stiffer your bushings are the more vibration they pass and the more they contribute to "pumping" the oscillator, having said that, loose old bushings will allow movement that will pump the oscillator. Lower tire pressure, and heavier wheels will damp vibration a bit from the road surface itself and mean less pumping. Keeping axles straight as possible will also minimise pumping.
So really, best approach is to either "tune" your suspension, or rather put it completely out of tune.
(Coming up with some wacky idea for vibration absorption to damp the oscillation, based on strange properties of a substance... look for a thread, in the next few days, need to go into some stuff)
look for any welds that have failed, that was my cars problem
hey chris r u running an end link style front sway bar?? or is it still setup like factory??
Remove turbo.
Fixed!my charger is like that too.....so bad to the point it feels like the car is going to shake itself into pieces, which is usually the point something breaks or I start loosening off bolts dropping them on the street/track
This actually make a LOT of sense.
Not that I've seen although I do have the typical crack in the firewall that seems to be common on these cars.
Right now there is NO sway bar in the front! I can't afford the PB one to put on it and I don't have one laying around for those a-arms believe it or not! LOLIt is surprisingly agile and doesn't seem to roll that much more than when it had one.
that's why I like my 2 step rev limiter. On the street I had it set for 2grand, Just hit it and it would chirp the tires in 1st and roll out hard with no tire spin
the number 1 thing to help with wheel hop for my daytona was modifying the stock 1 1/4" swaybar to make it endlink style, the car instantly put more power the ground and wheel hop is all but a thing of the past. Now the car either hooks up completely, or spins both front tires. It got such better traction after that mod. that I had to put a better clutch in because it wouldn't hold in first or second anymore.
Probably better damping on that.
Since the swaybar bolts have about an inch "spare" after they're snugged down, one could experiment with sticking another half inch slab of poly type stuff under the bushings. Convenient lumps are boat trailer bumpers and V blocks. If it works out, prod Johnny to make some "tall" bushings.
huh?
Here's my new yorker with stock LCA bushings and a heim jointed endlink sway bar.
I still was getting wheel hop in my old daytona with this bar though.
A sway bar should only effect wheel hop in that it is possible for it to preload one side or the other. It could also effectively increase the spring rate side to side if the hop is not happening simultaneously on the right and left, however eventually (and probably in a very short time) it would equalize and the hop would be synchronized between the sides.
Right now my car does not even have a sway bar on it. So that is out of the equation all together for me.
I might try different settings on the Koni's to see if that makes a difference, but it's not like I'm going to pop the hood, jump out of the car, turn the knobs on my Koni's, jump back in the car, and then try to take off all the time. That's rediculous. I actually have them set exactly the way I like them, so I'll be sure to take notes if I do try it.
my kcar has very mild wheel hop with the 90 PB LCA bushings, steve anders (i think) bobble strut... solid but has a l body dogbone mount in the bottom and a nylon bushing in the top, vitor from neons.org filled mounts all around. the car had none when i first installed everything but one of the early PB LCA bushings was a bit sloppy but Johnny sent me the replacements and while they are installed in the car, i havent been driving it for a while cause of the trans so i cant report back if its gone again. koni struts, eibachs for a shadow and kumho ecsta 711, 225/50/15 were the tires on the car at the time. slicks, no wheelhop whatsoever though.
Brian
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
