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Thread: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

  1. #41
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Just thinking, you may be able to make a more bulletproof transmission if you used one of the Neon 3 speeds and having that built. Just a thought. I'm sure it can be done, since no wiring is needed for it.
    Pete Faggella 03 PT Cruiser, 2.4L N/A 5 speed. Daily driver. All stock with baby moon wheels. 85 LeBaron 2.2TBI auto. Hoped I'd see a difference with bumped compression, but I didn't. Still slow. "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!'"

  2. #42

    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_P View Post
    Just thinking, you may be able to make a more bulletproof transmission if you used one of the Neon 3 speeds and having that built. Just a thought. I'm sure it can be done, since no wiring is needed for it.
    This is what I was thinking, as well.

    Unfortunately, that motor is putting out so much freaking power that you might not be able to use that four-speed anymore. You're probably going to have to go with a three-speed (if you want to keep the auto and sacrifice fuel economy with the lack of an overdrive) or go with a manual transmission.
    Vince 2011 Ford Mustang 5.0 I miss my Plymouth Duster. :(

  3. #43
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    I don't see the point in "throwing in the towel". The diesel guys figured out how to get their trannies to live without swapping to an Alison. I don't see any reason why we couldn't do the same! Lack of parts and support have never held back Turbo-Dodge guys/gals before. Why start here? There IS a solution!

  4. #44

    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    I don't see the point in "throwing in the towel". The diesel guys figured out how to get their trannies to live without swapping to an Alison. I don't see any reason why we couldn't do the same! Lack of parts and support have never held back Turbo-Dodge guys/gals before. Why start here? There IS a solution!
    OK, here's my idea, then. What if he uses the aftermarket 3-speed internals to beef up all of the transmission, except for the 4th speed (overdrive). Then, a custom PCM flash would prevent the automatic 3-4 shift from occurring when in AutoStick mode.

    Or what about the PT Cruiser Turbo's automatic transmission? Doesn't anyone make some beefy parts for that?
    Vince 2011 Ford Mustang 5.0 I miss my Plymouth Duster. :(

  5. #45
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty_Duster View Post
    You're probably going to have to go with a three-speed (if you want to keep the auto and sacrifice fuel economy with the lack of an overdrive) or go with a manual transmission.
    I'm not convinced really that the 4 speed were any more economical than the 3 speeds. Might look like it sometimes when you look from year to year, but then when the motor got lower tension rings, roller rockers, fully sequential fuel injection and a SBEC rather than SMEC at the same time... you should be thinking "Why did it only gain 1mpg????"

  6. #46
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty_Duster View Post
    OK, here's my idea, then. What if he uses the aftermarket 3-speed internals to beef up all of the transmission, except for the 4th speed (overdrive). Then, a custom PCM flash would prevent the automatic 3-4 shift from occurring when in AutoStick mode.

    Or what about the PT Cruiser Turbo's automatic transmission? Doesn't anyone make some beefy parts for that?
    The a413 and 604te have nothing in common mabe a lock up torque converter
    and mabey the diff but thats it.

  7. #47
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty_Duster View Post
    OK, here's my idea, then. What if he uses the aftermarket 3-speed internals to beef up all of the transmission, except for the 4th speed (overdrive). Then, a custom PCM flash would prevent the automatic 3-4 shift from occurring when in AutoStick mode.

    Or what about the PT Cruiser Turbo's automatic transmission? Doesn't anyone make some beefy parts for that?
    It's the same transmission! PT Cruiser Turbo uses the same 41TE that I have. There's one guy that beefs them up, he did mine 3 years ago. I broke it. Nobody makes hard parts for it, there are some improved clutches. He does some custom machining on a few things, and a bunch of valve body work, that's pretty much all there is.

    Quote Originally Posted by bakes View Post
    The a413 and 604te have nothing in common mabe a lock up torque converter
    and mabey the diff but thats it.
    ^^ This.

  8. #48
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty_Duster View Post
    This is what I was thinking, as well.

    Unfortunately, that motor is putting out so much freaking power that you might not be able to use that four-speed anymore. You're probably going to have to go with a three-speed (if you want to keep the auto and sacrifice fuel economy with the lack of an overdrive) or go with a manual transmission.
    ~360whp = so much freaking power?

  9. #49
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    The transmission temp sensor is on the valve body attached to the black plastic PRNDL "sensor".

    What is the status of the billet parts? I have new pieces for the measuring portion of the process when needed.

    Fourth gear burning up should just be a matter of clutch timing, however, it might be one of the parts you are looking at having made from billet.

    This transmission design is now in RWD applications pushing around 5K Durangos w/factory trailer hitches. I think just a few hard parts along with software upgrades will make this transmission very strong.

  10. #50
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by glhs0426 View Post
    The transmission temp sensor is on the valve body attached to the black plastic PRNDL "sensor".

    What is the status of the billet parts? I have new pieces for the measuring portion of the process when needed.

    Fourth gear burning up should just be a matter of clutch timing, however, it might be one of the parts you are looking at having made from billet.

    This transmission design is now in RWD applications pushing around 5K Durangos w/factory trailer hitches. I think just a few hard parts along with software upgrades will make this transmission very strong.
    On hold for a little bit. I had some problems with my medical insurance, and lost a dryer, so I'm out a big chunk of change right now.

  11. #51

    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by SebringLX View Post
    ~360whp = so much freaking power?
    For a transmission designed for half that, yeah, I'd say so.
    Vince 2011 Ford Mustang 5.0 I miss my Plymouth Duster. :(

  12. #52
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    but when you think of it, the A413 was designed for a 70 HP simca/peugeot or vw motor.... what was the highest stock figure through it? 175HP? And I think the highest stock figure through an A604 is abut 220.... 42LE got 250 through it.

  13. #53
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    The 3.5L HO in the 300M was 255hp wasn't it? Also, there are Prowler guys that have superchargers and such pushing around the same power (360hp). Both cars are using 42LE transmissions and are around the same weight or heavier. The ONLY reason that transmission was rated for more torque has to do with the final drive.

    The truck transmissions and the other RWD trannies used in the Hemi cars are larger and beefier internally. Even those can't keep 4th gear in them with decent amounts of power. From what I've read and been told there isn't enough room in there to add any more clutches to make it hold power. That being said, I'd think the same would hold true for the 41TE.

    I'm fairly sure that with the propper prepping and the right shift program this tranny can not only hold the power, but live a long and chearful life!

  14. #54
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    The ONLY reason that transmission was rated for more torque has to do with the final drive.
    Supposedly the 42LE has more or beefier clutches in.

  15. #55
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    The 3.5L HO in the 300M was 255hp wasn't it? Also, there are Prowler guys that have superchargers and such pushing around the same power (360hp). Both cars are using 42LE transmissions and are around the same weight or heavier. The ONLY reason that transmission was rated for more torque has to do with the final drive.

    The truck transmissions and the other RWD tyrannies used in the Hemi cars are larger and beefier internally. Even those can't keep 4th gear in them with decent amounts of power. From what I've read and been told there isn't enough room in there to add any more clutches to make it hold power. That being said, I'd think the same would hold true for the 41TE.

    I'm fairly sure that with the proper prepping and the right shift program this tyranny can not only hold the power, but live a long and cheerful life!
    42LE internals will fit into a 41TE they had more planetarys in them and one or more clutches in them.

  16. #56
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Dusty, you obviously don't know the comparison of a 3 speed to 4 speed.
    Racerstev himself said that the 4 speed out of the box is stronger in many areas then a built 3 speed. The thing is there are some issues that need to be resolved.

    I think the reason why working on it is silly is that these parts will allow it to be stronger then a 3 speed in all ways except the input shaft. That is why I have no interest in one right now. If there was a billet shaft option, then I would be very supportive.

    RacerStev already ran a couple low 10 second passes on his test transmission but went back to the 3 speed because he wanted to race instead of mess around with transmission settings. A 3 speed with equal mods would not have held up.

    The 4 speed is a better transmission. People have not been working on it for 30 years.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  17. #57
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadWarrior222 View Post
    Supposedly the 42LE has more or beefier clutches in.
    Quote Originally Posted by bakes View Post
    42LE internals will fit into a 41TE they had more planetarys in them and one or more clutches in them.
    No and no. Dealing with the same year 41TE vs. 42LE vs. 42RLE(rear drive). All have the same clutches and number, same number of planet gears. The reason the 42LE got a higher torque rating is the final drive. The 42LE has a conventional ring and pinion and the drive chain looks like it came out of a 1ton transfer case. The ring gear is a touch more than 9" diameter. The 42RLE is a 42LE with the final drive being the 8 1/4" or 9 1/4" axle.

  18. #58
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post

    The truck transmissions and the other RWD trannies used in the Hemi cars are larger and beefier internally. Even those can't keep 4th gear in them with decent amounts of power. From what I've read and been told there isn't enough room in there to add any more clutches to make it hold power. That being said, I'd think the same would hold true for the 41TE.

    I'm fairly sure that with the propper prepping and the right shift program this tranny can not only hold the power, but live a long and chearful life!
    That's a whole lot of transmissions to lump into one statement about fourth gear. That would be the RE series in the truck, the RFE series in the truck, and the NAG1 or WA580 in the car (Mercedes unit). The RE series will slip fourth above 800ft/lbs without mods. The only RFE I've heard that broke is Sharadon Performance race truck/R&D truck and it was not fourth gear. The NAG will put clutch chunks in the pan above 600ft/lbs on slicks.

    My point is the old "Chrysler transmissions suck" just isn't true anymore.

    I agree wholeheartedly about the 41 holding power; it can be done. The input shaft is made from some pretty good material. Has one been broken (I may be having a sometimers moment)? The aluminum parts in the input clutch assembly really scare me since they are cast. OE they can be spinning up to 6800rpm (3.5L WOT shift) but it's only holding 250ish ft/lbs in a 2 ton sled. Double or triple that torque, bang a gear with revised programming, and BOOM right in front of you.

  19. #59
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    I'm not disputing the final drive and other improvements, I'm just saying that several sources, say the clutch packs are upgraded on the 42LE...
    The 42LE's significant center-section component detail refinements were designed to cope with the added torque, including upgraded clutch packs and barreled axle shafts.
    from http://www.allpar.com/mopar/four-speed-automatics.html

    If aftermarket frictions for the 41 and 42 are the same, it's possible that they just make them to 42 spec. It's also possible that the upgrade made it into later 41s silently, so they could carry less part inventory.

  20. #60
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    the 41te's biggest Achilles heel is the shift programming. its too soft and allows alot of heat/wear on the clutchpacks. 4th is a little weak too.

    with better programming (hacked stock trans unit... noone has done it afaik ,or the pcs controller or the megashift unit which is now working but needs some bugs worked out) the 41te can handle alot of power as steve lockett (racerstev) has shown.

    Brian

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