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Thread: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

  1. #281
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    Is this area accessed during normal operation or only during power-up/down?
    There are two open items currently... one is checking the VNT version that Rob posted and the second is checking into some TCM details to help the cause.
    They are both hinged on repairing a Lacie backup drive.
    When completed, it may help....
    The area appears to be accessed during normal operation.

  2. #282
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by t vago View Post
    The area appears to be accessed during normal operation.
    If the areas are updated/accessed following every shift than its the DC and CVI adaptives.
    OR
    There is a block of memory that contains the engine based parameters and related cal constants used during shift and LU.

    One item worth mentioning is the use of paged calibrations.
    There is a BUS message that contains the engine ID.
    That ID is used to determine which shift, LU, initialization values, etc... are used.
    This was a feature used by those seeking higher upshift speeds of the 3.5 VS the 3.3/3.8.

  3. #283
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    If the areas are updated/accessed following every shift than its the DC and CVI adaptives.
    I think this corresponds to addreses $8000 through $80FF. There are a bunch of instructions that read from and write to individual addresses in this range, as well as a few routines that perform indexed accesses to this range. The 68HC11 on-chip RAM is mapped to $0000-$00FF at the routine starting at $31C3 (appears to be a TCM base hardware initialization routine), so the RAM in this address range may be provided by some other chip inside the TCM.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    There is a block of memory that contains the engine based parameters and related cal constants used during shift and LU.
    I think this corresponds to addresses $B600-$B7FF. I did not see any direct read/writes to this range, but I did see at least one indexed read routine that looked at this range. This range corresponds to the 68HC11 on-chip EEPROM. I think the EEPROM writing routines reside in the "hidden" ROM, given that the only time I saw any access to the EEPROM control I/O register addresses was in the TCM hardware initialization routine.

    The I/O registers get mapped to $A000-$A03F.

    There is what appears to be a separate set of I/O control registers at $C000-$C017. From what I can see so far, all of the instructions that access this range only write to this range. There do not appear to be any reads from this range.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    One item worth mentioning is the use of paged calibrations.
    There is a BUS message that contains the engine ID.
    That ID is used to determine which shift, LU, initialization values, etc... are used.
    This was a feature used by those seeking higher upshift speeds of the 3.5 VS the 3.3/3.8.
    Nice. I'll look for this feature, once I dive back into my disassembly of this 89 TCM code.
    Last edited by t vago; 03-24-2015 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Add some more information

  4. #284
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadWarrior222 View Post
    IIRC, Rob had a career change up, and has barely got time to fulfil orders for his 8v stuff. He also had a data loss incident which meant he lost "new" stuff he was working on. (I heard 3.0 stuff, potentially any preliminary stuff on 4spd PCM)
    I did have a job change. Not as much free-time for dis-assembly these days. But, I haven't lost any data, recently...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 5DIGITS View Post
    What hidden code are you referring to?
    In the '89 TCM binary that I have, the interrupt vectors and most of the lookup and math routines are not located on the 32k ROM. My best guess is that they are masked into the 6811, and that the 32k chip is mapped into lower memory, rather than at the top.

    At any rate, I can't 'see' the lookup routines because I don't have that code. From the patents docs, the lookup routine is a more 'traditional' 2-point interpolation where the slope is calculated on the fly.

    I just bought another '89 TCM to pull the actual chip and read it in my reader.
    Last edited by ShelGame; 03-24-2015 at 04:10 PM.
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by t vago View Post
    Did some more digging around the 89 TCM source code - I think I have figured out how the code stores a working variable into RAM. Also deduced some basic hardware interfacing. Must do some more digging.

    The current disassembly is here: 20150314_89TCM.zip
    How did you get the binary file? From a chip read?

    Your file shows the same thing that mine does - no interrupt vectors at the end of the binary...

    EDIT: Nevermind, I see you DL'd the binary I posted...
    Last edited by ShelGame; 03-24-2015 at 04:11 PM.
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  6. #286
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by t vago View Post
    Would either Chrysler or ShelGame object to my posting the disassembled hex dump file?
    Never been a problem...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    If you want to look at my 89 TCM dis-assembly, feel free - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bw...VG8&authuser=0

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by t vago View Post
    I have emailed vigo with a zipped copy of my current draft of the 1989 TCM disassembly. I have not been able to analyze the code itself in any great detail, as I have had to create my own disassembler from scratch. I figure this was quicker than trying to adapt an existing disassembler out there to what I needed it to do.
    I can share mine with you, if you want. Though, the data structures in the TCM code are different form the ECU for the most part. So, my dis-assembler will (eventually) need updates to dis-assemble and organize the TCM data structures...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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  8. #288
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    But, I haven't lost any data, recently...
    I was meaning "new" in the sense of things that you haven't offered a "product" for yet, and thinking about that USB stick failure you had a while back, though could have been quite a while back.. I have an awful sense of time, anything longer than 2 weeks ago is just kinda jumbled together Anyhoo, was just intending it as an FYI so's not to be pissed at Rob if he isn't getting back you instantly and doesn't got what you thought he'd got.
    DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!

  9. #289
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    Re: 41TE &quot;Bullet Proofing&quot;

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadWarrior222 View Post
    I was meaning "new" in the sense of things that you haven't offered a "product" for yet, and thinking about that USB stick failure you had a while back, though could have been quite a while back.. I have an awful sense of time, anything longer than 2 weeks ago is just kinda jumbled together Anyhoo, was just intending it as an FYI so's not to be pissed at Rob if he isn't getting back you instantly and doesn't got what you thought he'd got.
    Oh yeah, that was like 5 years ago.

    I do have a semi-assembled EATX flash setup on my bench so that I can try ot read/flash the factory flashable controllers. Haven't come close to finishing it yet.

    The '89 EATX controllers, incidentally, should be able to use my SBEC flash module since they use the same chip as an SBEC, and have the same 4 flash control pins mapped on the board.

    So, My idea is to simply modify the '89 controllers to be flashable by MP Tune without having to deal with the complicated voltage regulators that the factory flashable computers need. I'm doing that now with the FCC controllers for Neons; those 20v programming chips are very finicky about voltages.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

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  10. #290
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    One item worth mentioning is the use of paged calibrations.
    There is a BUS message that contains the engine ID.
    That ID is used to determine which shift, LU, initialization values, etc... are used.
    This was a feature used by those seeking higher upshift speeds of the 3.5 VS the 3.3/3.8.
    Since my 604 car is a 3.8 swapped dynasty, i've always wondered where the shift points were controlled, the TCM or the SBEC. Seems to me if the PCM has a ~5500rpm rev limiter, moving the upshift points up would not accomplish anything until you moved the rev limiter as well, correct?

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  11. #291
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    I talked to a friend today who is really good with electronics/programming. He is interested In the project of trying to flash a tcm with stock Prowler code. He's is gonna make some calls to some friends including one ex Chrysler engineer. Also, I may be able to get access to TechAuthority to do my experiment without having to pay the $35 for 3 days.

  12. #292
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    rob - did you get a chance to pull the bin off the new tcm? btw, here is the diassembly i did off the earlier bin. for the subroutine jumps into the e000+ and f000+ memory locations i just forced a "rts" so the disassembly would work correctly.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...Z0U&authuser=0
    Last edited by wowzer; 03-30-2015 at 05:18 PM.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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  13. #293
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    Since my 604 car is a 3.8 swapped dynasty, i've always wondered where the shift points were controlled, the TCM or the SBEC. Seems to me if the PCM has a ~5500rpm rev limiter, moving the upshift points up would not accomplish anything until you moved the rev limiter as well, correct?
    Correct.
    If the rev limiter is set below the WOT upshift point, the car will hang in gear unless you tip-out and force the upshift.
    In short, if the engine ID is altered to provide a higher upshift an engine cal change must be coordinated to support the modification.

  14. #294
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Bump, I just had the A604 for the black Daytona rebuilt with all the standard upgrades, hardened planetaries, input shaft and hubs, late model solenoid pack, high friction clutches, new converter etc. Hopefully can get it in before the end of summer.
    Rob M.
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  15. #295
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Been looking through boots and others posts. Sad about lack of clutches for 3 speeds and all their good parts are one off's and this looks dead too
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Continued from another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Maybe we can buy him out of that mostly for free work and get him into something profitable. Transmission control is applicable to a bunch of platforms if he works it out.$$$
    I'm sure if we got everyone interested in it to put $100 in a pool to give to him, it'd have a much higher priority I'm sure there's at least 10 of us on here that want to see this done, so there's a grand right there. If we really want this to go, that's a surefire way of showing we're serious.
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  17. #297
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    I don't think $100 is close to enough. He would probably need a month of compensation I would wildly guess. Still cheaper than billet everything 31th
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    I'm just saying $100 to get started with, in case new equipment or programs are needed. We could do 200 per person, doesn't matter to me. But if we keep it cheaper, the easier it is to get more people to chip in. Easier to get 20 people to give $100 than 10 to give $200. It wouldn't be money that you'd get anything tangible back on, it'd basically be just donations to help him buy or pay for whatever is needed to figure it out.

    Really, we could probably start one of those fund-me things for Rob and Morris, as they have both already done plenty for us for free. And if Rob gets the TCM hacked, Morris will need to add functions into MP Tune, or may even need to make a new program just for the trans. Kinda like a crowd-funded open source freeware project that would benefit the entire early FWD Mopar community. How many thousands of V6 auto cars are out there that people would enjoy much more with just a firmer shift? This would be their chance to contribute towards getting that.

    Any actual products or services would be on top of this. Essentially I'm suggesting we should simply raise R&D money for them.
    Rob M.
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  19. #299
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    Let's find out if either would even consider it, first...

  20. #300
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    Re: 41TE "Bullet Proofing"

    this is pure fun for me - don't want to get paid (also gives me an excuse for putting out an inferior product ) rob, on the other hand, has to do all the heavy lifting.....
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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