41TE "Bullet Proofing"

[ShelGame]

I personally would not be interested in taking money. For me, this is mostly a hobby. Sure, I make a little money making/selling computers and cables. That's only to support my own cars/projects. I certainly don't make a living at it (not even close; I probably don't make minimum wage with this stuff).

When you put money on it, it adds pressure to deliver something; and that makes it feel more like a job and less like a hobby. Which makes it less enjoyable, for me anyway.

I just have less time these days to sit down with the hardware for extended periods and figure this stuff out. I did have a deal to get some docs on the TCM. But, so far, the guy hasn't come thru with anything.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Totally understandable. Well, as always I'm willing to help out if I can, I'm just horrible when it comes to trying to read or understand code so not as much help on disassembling or decoding as I'd like to be. Maybe Bucar or some of the others that are better at it might have some time to help. If we need any real-time loggng or data, I'm willing to buy whatever equipment is need to do so, and use my vehicles as test subjects. I can do anything mechanical or electrical.

[boots]

Has anyone called HP tuners, diablo, ect... to see if they can handle reading/modifying the code?

[Aries_Turbo]

Totally understandable. Well, as always I'm willing to help out if I can, I'm just horrible when it comes to trying to read or understand code so not as much help on disassembling or decoding as I'd like to be. Maybe Bucar or some of the others that are better at it might have some time to help. If we need any real-time loggng or data, I'm willing to buy whatever equipment is need to do so, and use my vehicles as test subjects. I can do anything mechanical or electrical.

im really bad at code too honestly. im good at taking what the code guys put forth and implementing it and explaining it to the every man so they can use it. im a translator really....

I want a tuneable 41TE/A604 solution myself.

and I have a 2 year old and a 2 month old.... it sucks up alot of time that used to be spent fiddling with car stuff. that said, its a miracle my car runs and drives right now. im excited enough about that

only running/driving 4 speed car i have at all is a 07 chrysler town and country 3.3 van. thats not going to be much testing help unless i have the means to flash the controller... which i dont unless the interface can be built on a breadboard and hacked via software that someone provides. then im in. provided i dont break it. its the kid/wife hauler.

Has anyone called HP tuners, diablo, ect... to see if they can handle reading/modifying the code?

thats more money than bribing rob/morris...

Brian

[boots]

Well if everyone wants this to happen your going to have to start putting some money into it. Someone start a money fund like they proposed, but have a company develop it.

[SebringLX]

I still need a new 41TE. :P Haven't had time or spare $$ to replace mine after cracking the case a couple years ago. I was hoping 2016 might finally be the year I get it fixed, but seeing as how I'll be deployed for half the year, it's not looking good.

[A.J.]

I still need a new 41TE. :P Haven't had time or spare $$ to replace mine after cracking the case a couple years ago. I was hoping 2016 might finally be the year I get it fixed, but seeing as how I'll be deployed for half the year, it's not looking good.

Where did you crack your case? I'm wondering if it's in the same area I cracked two 31TH cases.

[SebringLX]

Where did you crack your case? I'm wondering if it's in the same area I cracked two 31TH cases.

Above the input for the passenger side axel, starting at the input and going up a few inches. Axel held together, trans case did not. Internals seemed fine as I was able to drive it the 13 miles home from the track after it cracked. Never had a chance to pull it out of the car and look at it though. I just put it on a trailer and parked in in storage.

[A.J.]

Above the input for the passenger side axel, starting at the input and going up a few inches. Axel held together, trans case did not. Internals seemed fine as I was able to drive it the 13 miles home from the track after it cracked. Never had a chance to pull it out of the car and look at it though. I just put it on a trailer and parked in in storage.

So the differential area? Mine cracks around the pinion. It's speculated that it's a combination of welding the case and brake boosting at the line.

[Ondonti]

Well if everyone wants this to happen your going to have to start putting some money into it. Someone start a money fund like they proposed, but have a company develop it.

Well I think we all feel a bit more comfortable with Rob on this type of job. He already slums it here with the rest of us

What about B & G performance? Problem is that they don't seem to have user adjustable stuff for anything before mid 2000's.
Does look like you could get a modified 3.0 calibration if you have 1997+ electronics. Kinda cool thought, especially if they were gutsy enough to make it boost compatible.
According to his site, he bought a the IMSA Masaratti cylinder head powered Daytona this year.

[boots]

Pinion support has solved our issues with the 3 speed case cracking at least for us. Were launching the cars12psi(72mm), 35 shot, 2-step set at 4700rpm, 2450lbs class weight, and a 24.5x9.5x13 tire. I still weld the cases for extra strength, I would like to try a trans without welding it.

Yea I understand wanting to use a local guy, from his post I took it as he wasn't interested.

[Ondonti]

Pinion support has solved our issues with the 3 speed case cracking at least for us. Were launching the cars12psi(72mm), 35 shot, 2-step set at 4700rpm, 2450lbs class weight, and a 24.5x9.5x13 tire. I still weld the cases for extra strength, I would like to try a trans without welding it.

Yea I understand wanting to use a local guy, from his post I took it as he wasn't interested.

I have a feeling you are going much easier on the case than many serious oldschoolers even though its a 72mm turbo. There are people here who either bog or let boost get out of control on the line. No staging boost control and no 2 step. 20psi+ with runnaway staging rpm and no timing being pulled by 2 step....just waiting on the lights.....Gets worse when we start finding ways to prevent dragging through the brakes instead of trying to create a safer launch.

Is your 35 shot hitting on after the last staging light on a pro tree or activated by letting go of brake? The people I know who race class automatic Supras have to sit on a 200+ shot from last stage so .7 to 1.2 seconds? Only way to flash their converters while complying with rules that add weight with a 2nd stage.
You guys share pics of the pinion support?

[Force Fed Mopar]

B&G only supports back to '03-04, which is when they switched to the NGC computers and eliminated the standalone TCU. So nothing there to help. I couldn't find any tuners that seemed to have any power to program the '02-older TCU's. Although I have not looked at HP Tuners new Dodge software yet.

Edit: Looks like their tuning software only works back to '04, however they seem to claim they can reflash earlier TCU's if you send them to in. I'll e-mail them and ask what they can do.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Meanwhile, is there anything else we can do to try and further this along? Any further disassembly off the hardware to look for other memory chips or something that the hidden code could be stored on? What's needed to pull calibrations or info off these things? I know there's been some DRBII discussion lately, is there any way to use one of those to see what the TCM is actually commanding the solenoids to do in real time? Or newer scanners for that matter, my brother has a Launch scanner I can use if it's any help. I know I'm playing an old tune, but I'd really like to see this happen. I'm actually a 5-spd guy for the most part, but I'm really trying to keep Rick Lozier's car in it's original configuration for nostalgia's sake, and if I get it back up to it's reportedly 400hp state or above, I'll need everything I can get to help the 604 live.

[Force Fed Mopar]

B&G only supports back to '03-04, which is when they switched to the NGC computers and eliminated the standalone TCU. So nothing there to help. I couldn't find any tuners that seemed to have any power to program the '02-older TCU's. Although I have not looked at HP Tuners new Dodge software yet.

Edit: Looks like their tuning software only works back to '04, however they seem to claim they can reflash earlier TCU's if you send them to in. I'll e-mail them and ask what they can do.

Got a reply back from them:

We can do limited tuning to the transmission.



However much of this trans is still pressure controlled and severally limits our options.



Are these transmissions built?

I replied that mine was a stock rebuild w/ factory upgrades, but that some others have aftermarket converters and modified valve bodies. And that we are looking for at least better shift points and quicker shifts. Awaiting reply now.

[Aries_Turbo]

if the TCS box could make painfully quick shifts on a stock 604 and on one with a few holes drilled larger, then i dont think its mostly pressure controlled. i mean the solenoid pack is directly commanding the clutch packs right?

Brian

[Vigo]

Yeah i dont think the pressure is a real limit. All the PWM is slowing down the clutch applications. In theory you wouldn't have pressure as a limitation until you were just using the solenoids as on/off switches. I think what is a bigger limit is how fast the clutch packs release since that is driven by the piston return springs and can't be sped up through software.

[ShelGame]

Meanwhile, is there anything else we can do to try and further this along? Any further disassembly off the hardware to look for other memory chips or something that the hidden code could be stored on? What's needed to pull calibrations or info off these things? I know there's been some DRBII discussion lately, is there any way to use one of those to see what the TCM is actually commanding the solenoids to do in real time? Or newer scanners for that matter, my brother has a Launch scanner I can use if it's any help. I know I'm playing an old tune, but I'd really like to see this happen. I'm actually a 5-spd guy for the most part, but I'm really trying to keep Rick Lozier's car in it's original configuration for nostalgia's sake, and if I get it back up to it's reportedly 400hp state or above, I'll need everything I can get to help the 604 live.

1st step - I would like to pull the actual chip from a '89/90 TCM and read it with a chip burner. I'll have to double check, but it's possible that the chip is a 64k and all of the code is on it. The .bin file I have was sent by someone else (I don't even remember who anymore). It's possible it simply wasn't a full read.

2nd step - Once we have a full image of the ROM space for the TCM, start comparing the code to the published flowcharts and reverse engineer it. We need to figure out the table format and get that added to MP Tune. That will allow for 'binary' editing as a start. Then we need to make a new source, like we have for the ECU's.

In the meantime, we should start collecting various .bins, much like we have for the ECU calibrations. Once we get the code figured out, we'll want to have a reference database to compare TCM calibrations to. Also, once we have the early code reverse engineered, we could use it as a stepping stone to reverse engineer the later software. Maybe add stickshift functions, etc.

[Vigo]

I think it was my friend Mason (Strax22) that desoldered a chip from an 89 TCM i picked up and tried to read it and send it to you. I don't remember, but i had thought that whole 89 TCM had ended up with you when i sent all those TCMs back when? I dont recall having seen it in years among my stuff. The 89 TCMs are visually pretty distinct, iirc they are way larger than the later ones.

[ShelGame]

I think it was my friend Mason (Strax22) that desoldered a chip from an 89 TCM i picked up and tried to read it and send it to you. I don't remember, but i had thought that whole 89 TCM had ended up with you when i sent all those TCMs back when? I dont recall having seen it in years among my stuff. The 89 TCMs are visually pretty distinct, iirc they are way larger than the later ones.

I do have a pile of TCM's. But, I don't recall any of them missing a chip. I'll double check.

I did look over my notes, and the '89/90 TCM use the same chip as an SBEC (87C257). Which means that it's only 32k (same size as the .bin from Straxx). So, there should be 'extra' memory somewhere (most likely the uProcessor itself) with the missing code on it. I'll probably have to bootstrap the TCM and dump the entire 64k of memory space to read it. Assuming ChryCo didn't somehow hardware lock the uP ROM.

It also means that the SBEC flash module will work in an '89/90 TCM to make it flashable.