Lost 4th gear

[SebringLX]

Saturday I was cruising along at 55mph when a truck in front of me started slowing down to turn. After the truck got out of my way and I went to hit the gas again, I wasn't gaining any speed. Hit the gas a little more, saw the RPMs climbing, but still not gaining any speed. It was like I was in neutral. I threw it into autostick mode, it showed I was in 4th. I tried to down-shift, but it wouldn't respond. Had to pull over. Put it in park, put it back in autostick mode, shifted into 2nd, and 3rd just fine. Tried putting it in 4th, same thing happens, it's like being in neutral, couldn't down-shift out of 4th. This time the CEL came on. Had to pull over, put it in park again, and then back into auto-stick, and drive the rest of the way to the car show in 3rd.

On the way home, even more issues. When coming off the highway, it wouldn't down-shift into 2nd, then the gear indicator box disappeared. It went into limp mode, stuck in 2nd until I pulled over, turned the car off, then back on. Then I could get back in and out of every gear up to 3rd, although going into 3rd seemed to be slow. Also after a little while of cruising at 65 in 3rd gear on the highway, which put me over 3500rpms, it started dumping fuel. My wideband was reading 11.2:1 the most of the way home. Fuel wouldn't go back to normal until I turned the car off and back on again.

This morning when I moved my car so I could drive my truck to work, there was a softball size spot of trans fluid on the driveway. I'll be taking it back into the trans shop tomorrow morning I guess.

I'm going to crawl under the car when I get home from work and see if I can spot where the fluid is leaking from. Could just the fluid leaking be causing all these issues? I'm hoping it's just that, 'cause they'll fix that for free... I am kind of afraid I may have blown the clutches for 4th gear away when I accidentally hit 4th doing a burn-out at the track.

[turbovanman²]

Maybe its the solenoid pack leaking? I can't remember if you replaced it earlier but its possible its full of metal from the TC letting go.

[SebringLX]

Maybe its the solenoid pack leaking? I can't remember if you replaced it earlier but its possible its full of metal from the TC letting go.

I did replace it, but it was a couple weeks before the TC blew up. They were supposed to have cleaned everything up when I had the TC taken care of...

[turbovanman²]

I did replace it, but it was a couple weeks before the TC blew up. They were supposed to have cleaned everything up when I had the TC taken care of...

You can't clean them out.

[Bardo]

You have a pm

[SebringLX]

You can't clean them out.

Can you tell if they are still good or not? They cost $150, and there was only 1 in all of Rockford when I bought the one on there now last month... The one I replaced was not on the car when the TC blew up...

[turbovanman²]

Can you tell if they are still good or not? They cost $150, and there was only 1 in all of Rockford when I bought the one on there now last month... The one I replaced was not on the car when the TC blew up...

I would say the only way is to get the wheels in the air, then use a scanner to activate each gear, if you can't get 4th or other gears, then you'll have to verify electrically and if so, then its internal.

[shadow88]

Sounds like the OD clutch burnt. I wouldn't be surprised if you have a gear ratio error in 4th code.

However, topping up the fluid would be my first priority.

[SebringLX]

Yeah I'm topping the fluid off in the morning before I take it back to the shop. I drove the truck to work today, picked up 2qts of ATF+4 on the way home.

Ok so the leak is NOT coming from the solenoid pack. It's coming from the back side of the transmission. I couldn't pin point it exactly, but there's a big black panel on it, on the back side (not the pan that's on the bottom), and it's coming from there somewhere. There are 2 corner points on the bottom of the trans just below that panel near the passenger side axel that the fluid is hanging from before it drips off.

I started the car and let it get up to operating temp, then checked the fluid. There are 4 holes on the dip stick. The fluid was at the 3rd hole, right below where it says HOT, so I don't think it needs that much fluid. How much do you guys think I should use to top it off?

[Vigo]

maybe 1/3 quart? It doesnt need much if its reading there.

That black cover on the back is the diff cover. Its just a stamped cover with silicone to seal. Unless they used a gasket.. in which case they should use silicone next time

Depending on who is buying it and where it is coming from, you can get aftermarket solenoid packs for $75 at shop cost from transmission parts houses. Ive also gotten ISS/OSS sensors as cheap as $6/pc.

I once drove a 3kgt with that problem. I dont like THAT 4spd auto much but one awesome thing about it is that you can just take off the passenger tire and unbolt the whole 4th gear clutch pack and it falls off in your hand! I popped it off and that cluth pack was toast. Im guessing yours is too.. I honestly dont think it's physically possible to make 4th gear strong in a 604, because there are not many clutches, they arent very big, and you cant put a crapload of pressure to them (a la our 3spds).

If you burnt it up by accident, that sucks, but on the other hand you know how not to do it ever again. At least you got a 12sec slip

[SebringLX]

It looked like a black silicone sealant around it to me. The 41TE is on the drivers side in the Stratus/Sebring, so I don't think you can just pop the passenger side off on this car to do what you're saying.

There are upgraded clutch packs for 4th gear now, and some places will add a 5th clutch pack to it too...

It doesn't look like clutch plates are very expensive.. less than $5... What's the difference between a clutch plate and a clutch pack? If it's just the 4th gear clutches that went out, would that damage anything else in the trans? I'm just trying to figure out if I'm looking at another full rebuild, which I can't afford, and just had done anyway, or if they should be able to just replace the clutches for 4th and make sure everything is sealed properly...

I'm always very careful to never boost in 4th, but on that particular burn-out, it zipped through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd very quickly. It only hit 4th for a second, but it went into it with the tires spinning at 90+MPH and boosting 24psi.

[turbovanman²]

The clutch's consist of a fiber disc and metal disc, so you have frictions and steels, IE the same as a motorbike clutch setup. More clutch's equals more surface area.

I doubt you damaged it doing it that one time, so its most likely something inside went or they didn't clean it out properly, the price was sorta low.

[SebringLX]

The clutch's consist of a fiber disc and metal disc, so you have frictions and steels, IE the same as a motorbike clutch setup. More clutch's equals more surface area.

I doubt you damaged it doing it that one time, so its most likely something inside went or they didn't clean it out properly, the price was sorta low.

$1600 was low?

The clutches and steels are cheap... http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...hes_s/8405.htm

Less than $3 each.

Those are stock replacement parts though. Not sure how much parts made with better materials cost.

[turbovanman²]

$1600 was low?

The clutches and steels are cheap... http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/...hes_s/8405.htm

Less than $3 each.

Those are stock replacement parts though. Not sure how much parts made with better materials cost.

That included the converter as well didn't it?

[Vigo]

$1600 is low to get anything better than stock, usually. Doesnt mean you didnt get something better than stock for $1600, but that is pretty much full retail for a stock build.

IF nothing happened other than clutch discs burning up, you probably COULD take it all the way apart, clean everything, put it back together with new clutches in 4th, and have it work. BUT, as simon has said its impossible to clean the solenoid pack and the converter (basically) so if you got junk floating around from ground up clutch discs, its hard to get it all out.

One way or another, it will probably have to come out. My suggestion is if they dont warranty it, do it yourself! With some snapring pliers and posting a bunch of pictures, we could pretty much walk you through the basics. First thing, though, is to get it on a scanner.

[SebringLX]

It was ~$3500 when I had it built the 1st time, ~10k miles and 3 years ago... The converter from that build is what blew up a month ago. The $1600 was to clean up everything from that converter blowing up. I do not know what was replaced as part of that. I would assume anything that can't be cleaned was replaced. The guy that did the work on the trans itself was not there when I picked it up on Friday, so I didn't get to talk to him and get details on what all he had to do. I only got to talk to the guy who put the trans back in the car.

I had what was supposed to be the practical limit of the 41TE as far as beefing it up. It was not cost effective to have it built anymore than what it was. It could be done, but it would be better and more cost effective put in a build 3spd.

[turbovanman²]

It was ~$3500 when I had it built the 1st time, ~10k miles and 3 years ago... The converter from that build is what blew up a month ago. The $1600 was to clean up everything from that converter blowing up. I do not know what was replaced as part of that. I would assume anything that can't be cleaned was replaced. The guy that did the work on the trans itself was not there when I picked it up on Friday, so I didn't get to talk to him and get details on what all he had to do. I only got to talk to the guy who put the trans back in the car.

I had what was supposed to be the practical limit of the 41TE as far as beefing it up. It was not cost effective to have it built anymore than what it was. It could be done, but it would be better and more cost effective put in a build 3spd.

If that was including re and re labour, that really was cheap, wow.

Anyhow, do the scanner thing then we can guide you and as Vigo said, we can also help you out if you need to rebuild it.

[Vigo]

Ok, $3500 sounds more normal for full retail on a max performance build.

$1600 would be your everyday rebuild where there arent many broken hard parts and you didnt get scammed. But $1600 just to clean everything out would be pretty exorbitant unless they also replaced some parts.

Let us know what you find out..

[BadAssPerformance]

It could be done, but it would be better and more cost effective put in a build 3spd.

We didnt say that too many times Sunday, did we?

BTW, I'll get the rest of the vids up... you can hear a definite loud click noise during the burnout an at least 2 of them

[turbovanman²]

We didnt say that too many times Sunday, did we?

BTW, I'll get the rest of the vids up... you can hear a definite loud click noise during the burnout an at least 2 of them

I would love a 4 speed, but like all builds, its only as good as the parts put in. If he had the converter he paid for, he wouldn't be in this mess. If my converter lets go, which it has, it can also cause issues like he's having if I don't clean it out properly,