Cold Air intake for TU Stainless Steel header

[Pat]

I am pretty sure I stated this before but my motor is centered for the axles. To get it right my is more towards passenger side then the drivers side

Are you running equal length axles? If so, you should consider swapping them from side to side. I've seen variances in axle lengths over the years that have pushed the motor to one side or the other by centering with the axle plunge method.

I'd definitely look into this before you start trying to swap out hard parts.

[Directconnection]

Are you running equal length axles? If so, you should consider swapping them from side to side. I've seen variances in axle lengths over the years that have pushed the motor to one side or the other by centering with the axle plunge method.

I'd definitely look into this before you start trying to swap out hard parts.

Listen to da man! I hope this is the issue... as it would help both sides here in this thread.

[Bozo]

i don't read anything about studs, but let me tell you that i've removed my gt30r once from the TU SS header without pulling the head. i took more than an hour, but i didn't have a lift nor other special tools (crow foot wrench,...) handy.
with the right tools and some practice i'm positive i can take it off in less than an hour.

It's supposed to come with just holes and not studs. I can't see how you could put a turbo on, then a washer and a nut if there were studs in the manifold.
I simply can't imagine how someone who wrenches on cars can't get the turbo on and off!

Just as a note that MY hybrid manifold came with studs. I purchased this in late '07, early '08. Obviously not the SS model.





Installed after high temp painting (which lasted all of 500 miles! )



And with turbo installed after same "fast burn off" high temp paint....



I don't have any pics after the motor was installed. IIRC, the "driver's side", lower bolt/washer/nut assembly was a PITA!

[DodgeZ]

Are you running equal length axles? If so, you should consider swapping them from side to side. I've seen variances in axle lengths over the years that have pushed the motor to one side or the other by centering with the axle plunge method.

I'd definitely look into this before you start trying to swap out hard parts.

I have a long axles in it. Good tip I'll file that one. The motor is more towards the passenger side anyways. if went the other way it would be closer to the booster which would make it worse.

[DodgeZ]

sure, i can also type everything in red so you can distinguish easier!

were you only going to do red for some of the replies?

i don't read anything about studs, but let me tell you that i've removed my gt30r once from the tu ss header without pulling the head. I took more than an hour, but i didn't have a lift nor other special tools (crow foot wrench,...) handy.
With the right tools and some practice i'm positive i can take it off in less than an hour.

the picture shows studs on the manifold's turbo flange. I didn't get those. The new cast manifold comes with studs. Did you nut see the nuts bolts holding the turbo on in the videos and pictures?

the description states "tu trannybuster", he could have some fancy compressor housing made, you wouldn't know. I hope you get my point.

he could, shame when i ask if this was the case he never replied and guess you must where i ask him to post the picture of it with the measurements and he won't?

by my understanding, this means the 90° elbow of the compressor outlet

well that is one way to look at it. You are assuming and going by intent instead the written English.

what does the asterisk say? You got the header on the car, it was your choosen turbo that didn't fit.
I know you said it's the same, but you bought it from a different vendor than tu, how can tu take responsibility for another vendors product? - i wouldn't and i'm sure when you run a business you would not take responsibility for another ones product.

didn't you read the links? The asterisk says it works with all cables shifted cars and cars that have been converted to cable shifters.

Did you miss were the turbo is almost all from tu? Everything but the rebuild kit and the cold side is from chris. It is the same part number compressor as chris'. Buying the compressor housing from chris wouldn't make it fit. I do run a business and stand behind my work.

i don't read wga or z bracket...did you have problems mounting your dp or swingvalve?

I know you are from another Europe so your english maybe different but when you say TU products that means all of them. The "I.E." means "in other words" which is an example.

I've seen the video, and let me say this:
You could have clocked the turbo differently and bent the bracket a little bit towards the turbine housing - problem solved, the wga would have never touched the cooling line.
Would take less time than taking a video and uploading it somewhere.

LOL. I you got it all figured out over the internet. LOL. Clocked the turbo how? Counter clock wise jams the WGA arm into the intake. Clock wise puts the WGA in to the firewall. The bracket was stuck up against the compressor housing so you couldn't bend it down.

That video was what I sent to when I was trying to get help. The line was a test fit where you see it in the video, if you read the description of the video you'd know that the coolant line is suppose to go on the OTHER side of the oil line. If you look at the new pictures you can see how I got the coolant line to go way over top of the WGA with some new fittings. I did end up getting the Z bracket bent down. I had to grind a bunch off of the compressor housing and the WGA arm but I did get it to work.

it's supposed to come with just holes and not studs.

why does his description show studs? Are you saying his description is wrong?
http://web.archive.org/web/200607080...products_id=36
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/imag...d%20Header.jpg

I can't see how you could put a turbo on, then a washer and a nut if there were studs in the manifold.
I simply can't imagine how someone who wrenches on cars can't get the turbo on and off!


Juggy did it, and so did i. Didn't need a screw driver either.


No screw driver needed either.
Two methods:
1) get the swingvalve/downpipe bolt kit
2) grind some material off the height of the stock nut with the sheet metal welded to it.

Are you talking about the header or the swingvalve?

[Austrian Dodge]

Just as a note that MY hybrid manifold came with studs. I purchased this in late '07, early '08. Obviously not the SS model.





Installed after high temp painting (which lasted all of 500 miles! )



And with turbo installed after same "fast burn off" high temp paint....



I don't have any pics after the motor was installed. IIRC, the "driver's side", lower bolt/washer/nut assembly was a PITA!

we don't want to confuse people, you posted pictures of your cast header...i was talking about the SS header.
i could post pictures of my SS header with just holes in it - but that wouldn't make any difference as the studs are not the point of this whole thread.

changing the turbo may be a PITA...changing the waterpump in our cars maybe a PITA too, BUT IT WORKS, as does taking off of the turbo without pulling the head with TU's header!
all a question of wrenching skills and the right tools.

get what i'm trying to say?
i know a guy from germany who used to have a couple TMs. he could take off factory turbos and factory exhaust manifolds of our cars without pulling the head, were everybody said it was impossible.

[Austrian Dodge]

were you only going to do red for some of the replies?

thought it might be enough for you, if i just highlight my answers of my previous post

the picture shows studs on the manifold's turbo flange. I didn't get those. The new cast manifold comes with studs. Did you see the nuts bolts holding the turbo on in the videos and pictures?

the picture you posted also shows a cast header, and your issue is with a stainless header. two different products, apples and oranges, ....
no studs in your video. again, whats your problem not having studs? it was supposed to come like that.
my stainless steel header from TU didn't come with studs either - never had a problem getting the turbo on and off.

he could, shame when i ask if this was the case he never replied and guess you must where i ask him to post the picture of it with the measurements and he won't?

look at your compressor housing, measure it and then take a look at all the different B cover measures. you'll find out what compressor housing you have.
it doesn't help anyone to solve your problem, when you state "i have the same".
because you don't have the same, you didn't buy it there, so you don't have the exact same! you just assume it.
where did you buy your turbo, what are the exact specs of your turbo?
people need to know that to help solving your problem.
you can't go from A to B, if you don't know where A is!

TU surely can send you another cover, but which one, if you don't know the exact specs of your cold side?!

well that is one way to look at it. You are assuming and going by intent instead the written English.

Correct, it's not written, but I assume you've owned TMs for years, have read Gary's site and saw a lot more TMs in person than I ever did.
How come you wouldn't assume the same? How come you wouldn't know that the compressor outlet of a bigger turbo would point straight to the cylinder head?
Is it such abnormal to assume which 90° elbow is ment in that description?
Seems to me that your trying to pick on every detail most people wouldn't even think of.

didn't you read the links? The asterisk says it works with all cables shifted cars and cars that have been converted to cable shifters.

no i didn't, thats why i asked. thanks for the information, but that doesn't change anything.

Did you miss were the turbo is almost all from tu? Everything but the rebuild kit and the cold side is from chris. It is the same part number compressor as chris'. Buying the compressor housing from chris wouldn't make it fit. I do run a business and stand behind my work.

everything but the cold side? DUDE, the cold side is your problem!!!!!!
were did you post the part# of your compressor housing? i couldn't tell from the pictures nor from your posts!
Are you able to tell the future? how else coulde you state that a compressor housing from him wouldn't fit?
OK, so we agree you stand behind YOUR products, how about other products, not from you?

I know you are from another Europe so your english maybe different but when you say TU products that means all of them. The "I.E." means "in other words" which is an example.

thanks for beeing indulgent.

LOL. I you got it all figured out over the internet. LOL. Clocked the turbo how? Counter clock wise jams the WGA arm into the intake. Clock wise puts the WGA in to the firewall. The bracket was stuck up against the compressor housing so you couldn't bend it down.

simply physics, something called lever!
what happens when you put a - let's say a screw driver - between the compressor housing and the wastegate bracket and pry a little bit upwards?
the bracket bents upwards and towards the turbine side. can you imagine that?
now the wastegate can sits up higher, giving you more clearance.
by doing that you probably wouldn't even have to clock the compressor housing differently.

That video was what I sent to when I was trying to get help. The line was a test fit where you see it in the video, if you read the description of the video you'd know that the coolant line is suppose to go on the OTHER side of the oil line. If you look at the new pictures you can see how I got the coolant line to go way over top of the WGA with some new fittings. I did end up getting the Z bracket bent down. I had to grind a bunch off of the compressor housing and the WGA arm but I did get it to work.

so why posting that video? trying to proove that the wastegate arm or bracket doesn't work the way it should?

you assembled it wrong! who's responsible then?

which products from any vendor work if customers are doing it wrong????

why does his description show studs? Are you saying his description is wrong?
http://web.archive.org/web/200607080...products_id=36
http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/imag...d%20Header.jpg

no, the picture show's a header with studs.
you have asked for that after you purchased it and you were given a solution -> bolts, washers and nuts!
how long have you owned that header, 4 years? 5 years? still complain about that?!
now i don't know how your guarantuee law/stuffs works but i can tell you that in my country products are generally under warranty for ONE!! year (ie: cars have 3 years). after that? well bad luck, better have told someone before.
example: problem with your HP computer (one year warranty) after 9months - no big deal, get the broken part replaced. but that doesn't extend the warranty for another year.

thats written law here, so i'm used to that and thats probably why i'm reacting to all this like i do.

TU is still offering solutions for your problem (look a couple pages and posts back) which you now discovered YEARS later after purchasing the header and trying to run it with a cold side of your choice that could have never been tested anyways.

Yet you call him a f*cking idiot and can't see that you're the only one with a 87 CSX and that combination of parts that have that problem.

I haven't read of anyone having a TU SS header, a complete TU turbo and said big brake booster in a 87 CSX experiencing the same problem.

why do you think is that?

can you imagine that i would love to have you as my customer?

Are you talking about the header or the swingvalve?

took both of them off while they were in car.

[Juggy]

My header came with just holes on the turbo flange. When I talked to Chris about it he told me to just use bolts and nuts. Which I did. If you are looking at the flange the top right hole is the one that causes problems. The flange is so tight to the intake and the header you can hardly get it on when it is on a bench. Trying to get a washer, lock washer and nut on is a HUGE PITA when it is on the bench. There is no way you are doing it in car. You can't get a wrench on to the nut once it is in there. You have to get a big flat head screw driver and jam it in there so you can tighten the bolt up. It is like the swingvalve bolt/nut on the TU 3" swingvalve. You know the one where you have to jam a screw drive in to hold the nut so you crank the bolt down? Same thing. I know his new manifold comes with studs but we were talking about the description of his SS header manifold which is clearly not on many did things.

hey, sounds you like have one of the earlier models, first ones made. i had one of them too b4. all holes were clearance for bolts, not a single tapped hole. i had someone weld a nut on the top right hole you are refering too, so that i did not have to go through that BS. i use socket head cap screws and lock washers to hold everything in place.

id def suggest getting the nut welded on tho...it would make the install so much simpler. its something that should have been done b4 the product was even shipped out. it was prolly over looked and "R&D" money was used elsewhere

[Chris W]

Kevin,

Send us your turbo or just the compressor cover and we will provide you with a lower profile version.

Chris-TU

24453 South 194th Street
Queen Creek, AZ 85142

[Pandemoniac]

Thanks for the pics Bozo. I was able to get a picture of the VERY housing your car has, (directly from the source you bought it from) and lo and behold, it's even SHORTER than the compressor housing on kevin's car! Just a hair under 2.5 inches, or 5 cm. If your car had an extra 1/2 inch of turbo sticking out, I could safely say there's NO way you could stick anything on the end of that turbo. And also, just for the record, I didn't even have to ask to get this image.

changing the turbo may be a PITA...changing the waterpump in our cars maybe a PITA too, BUT IT WORKS, as does taking off of the turbo without pulling the head with TU's header!
all a question of wrenching skills and the right tools.

get what i'm trying to say?
i know a guy from germany who used to have a couple TMs. he could take off factory turbos and factory exhaust manifolds of our cars without pulling the head, were everybody said it was impossible.

I think what HE is trying to do is provide more info for the fitment problems that exist on the TU manifold, stainless or not. I think he can also remember when I pulled a turbo from a junkyard t1 car without removing the head! Turbo installation/removal is not debated and the reason for this whole thread in the 1st place.

[Frank]

Chris,
I think we would all still love to see your pictures and dimensions of the turbo that you were going to post

Thanks!
Frank

[Austrian Dodge]

i know that it's not the debate of this thread, i was just trying to show that it is in fact possible to do so, when kevin brought to attention saying it's impossible.

sorry if my posts seem to be defensive, thats one of the bad parts with communication over the internet.

[Reeves]

Chris,
I think we would all still love to see your pictures and dimensions of the turbo that you were going to post

Thanks!
Frank

x2!

.....

[Chris W]

x2!

.....

See post 206

[vntshadow]

I've been watching this thread from the very beginning. To say the least I'm interested how this is going to turn out. My only post was recommending centering the engine. So now I'm suscribed and I see all. I just want to put my 2 cents in.
I myself have been dealing with TU to get some of my parts. Cast header, WG bracket and 3" swingvalve etc... I also have had little issues with almost all my stuff from TU. But nothing I wasn't able to make work or replace with someone elses. Chris has always been helpful in solving some of my problems.
Watching the video with the head off reminds me that I just had mine off and it looks alot like mine. Luckily or unfortunatly I didn't get my turbo with a watercooled center section, I was under time constraint when my turbo was drop shipped from Turbonetics. I was told to send it back to get a replacement, again I was under time constraints and couldn't do it then, so I eat this. Not a big deal anyway since I did put on a oil-cooler and wasn't planning on keeping it for very long anyway. But it would've been nice for hot starting.
The bracket also put the rod right into the TU braided line kit. Had to cut off the ends(elongate hole) to clock it away from oil line. Had issues with boost creep(still do) at one point and found out the nut(adjustable) on the rod was still hitting oil line, so clock it some more and now I can't tighten all the way the one bolt to housing anymore. It doesn't hit anymore. And it probably leaks boost. The next time the head is off(since I can't remove the turbo on car without totally tweaking motor forward) I will try to clock center section for oil line to miss wastegate rod and see if housing is warped from doing this.
The new cast header really wasn't ready to install. I had to grind around bolt holes for TU exhaust kit and replace to shorter studs for the bottom. Also had to grind bottom of intake for everything fit tightly(first epic fail I couldn't tighten up gap and would've had exhaust leaks on all 4 ports) and clearance. It came with 2 studs, 2 bolts and 4washers /nuts. I too use the screw driver method to tighten one of the nuts. I'm a little leary about grinding that part yet.
The swingvalve is such a rare and beautiful piece I don't want to grind or weld anything to it, so again screw driver method works here also.
It looks like the exact same turbo(besides center section) thats on my car. I had the same issue with a freakin tight fit between the intake and booster. 75 dollars and 3x 90 degree bends later, I have something that will work. But what a pita it is to fit. It still rubs booster, but I have new mounts all around, so there isn't much movement anyway. I guess I'm not worried about it. Is the center section between the watercooled and the oil only different thickness'? If so I'll probably have more issues with this problem in future.
I'm really liking the idea of getting a shorter and longer axle to move engine over some more. But I'll have to see if this car is even worth it to spend more money.
A long time ago I was introduced to a new hobby. It was TURBO DODGES. Since then, I tinker like the most of us. And if wasn't for this bulls#$t things that happen, we would get bored with these cars. We all are looking for solutions. That's why vendors and regular joes always try to come up with something to work, make more power, handle better or just plain look good. I understand both sides and will always be looking for a solution to a problem.
I'm sure alot of people have had the same problems and worked them out in the same manner we would do to get the job done.
In my opinion, "IF you are adding something to your car, other than stock, you will run into problems". Comes with the territory, whether a vendor says it will fit or not. I see it as our risk and money.
Thank you
Vntshadow(car for sell)

[Aries_Turbo]

hey, sounds you like have one of the earlier models, first ones made. i had one of them too b4. all holes were clearance for bolts, not a single tapped hole.

frank had one of these ones. he put his engine together at my house and put bolts through the holes and then i stick welded (all i had at the time lol) them to the back of the flange. just a few solid tacks... worked like a charm.

brian

[badandy]

frank had one of these ones. he put his engine together at my house and put bolts through the holes and then i stick welded (all i had at the time lol) them to the back of the flange. just a few solid tacks... worked like a charm.

brian

Maybe for the first time you put it together...but didn't hold up for installation/removal...but then...neither did the rest of the welds on that thing

[Pandemoniac]

I've been watching this thread from the very beginning. To say the least I'm interested how this is going to turn out. My only post was recommending centering the engine. So now I'm suscribed and I see all. I just want to put my 2 cents in.
I myself have been dealing with TU to get some of my parts. Cast header, WG bracket and 3" swingvalve etc... I also have had little issues with almost all my stuff from TU. But nothing I wasn't able to make work or replace with someone elses. Chris has always been helpful in solving some of my problems.
Watching the video with the head off reminds me that I just had mine off and it looks alot like mine. Luckily or unfortunatly I didn't get my turbo with a watercooled center section, I was under time constraint when my turbo was drop shipped from Turbonetics. I was told to send it back to get a replacement, again I was under time constraints and couldn't do it then, so I eat this. Not a big deal anyway since I did put on a oil-cooler and wasn't planning on keeping it for very long anyway. But it would've been nice for hot starting.
The bracket also put the rod right into the TU braided line kit. Had to cut off the ends(elongate hole) to clock it away from oil line. Had issues with boost creep(still do) at one point and found out the nut(adjustable) on the rod was still hitting oil line, so clock it some more and now I can't tighten all the way the one bolt to housing anymore. It doesn't hit anymore. And it probably leaks boost. The next time the head is off(since I can't remove the turbo on car without totally tweaking motor forward) I will try to clock center section for oil line to miss wastegate rod and see if housing is warped from doing this.
The new cast header really wasn't ready to install. I had to grind around bolt holes for TU exhaust kit and replace to shorter studs for the bottom. Also had to grind bottom of intake for everything fit tightly(first epic fail I couldn't tighten up gap and would've had exhaust leaks on all 4 ports) and clearance. It came with 2 studs, 2 bolts and 4washers /nuts. I too use the screw driver method to tighten one of the nuts. I'm a little leary about grinding that part yet.
The swingvalve is such a rare and beautiful piece I don't want to grind or weld anything to it, so again screw driver method works here also.
It looks like the exact same turbo(besides center section) thats on my car. I had the same issue with a freakin tight fit between the intake and booster. 75 dollars and 3x 90 degree bends later, I have something that will work. But what a pita it is to fit. It still rubs booster, but I have new mounts all around, so there isn't much movement anyway. I guess I'm not worried about it. Is the center section between the watercooled and the oil only different thickness'? If so I'll probably have more issues with this problem in future.
I'm really liking the idea of getting a shorter and longer axle to move engine over some more. But I'll have to see if this car is even worth it to spend more money.
A long time ago I was introduced to a new hobby. It was TURBO DODGES. Since then, I tinker like the most of us. And if wasn't for this bulls#$t things that happen, we would get bored with these cars. We all are looking for solutions. That's why vendors and regular joes always try to come up with something to work, make more power, handle better or just plain look good. I understand both sides and will always be looking for a solution to a problem.
I'm sure alot of people have had the same problems and worked them out in the same manner we would do to get the job done.
In my opinion, "IF you are adding something to your car, other than stock, you will run into problems". Comes with the territory, whether a vendor says it will fit or not. I see it as our risk and money.
Thank you
Vntshadow(car for sell)

Thanks for the info! In all I've one with the Lebaron I helped to build, I nearly forgot about the grinding I had to do to make it fit as well. I also remember having a fitment issue with one of the 4 turbo flange studs, I think it was on the bottom. TU is NOT Edelbrock nor do I expect it to be. There's just not the market, manpower or support. But as a vendor one also has to be quite up front about any possible fitment issues or any incompatibilities that may exist with at least the more commonly used components out there. The worst thing that can be done is for claims to be made which are very difficult to back up in real world data with most customers.
Perhaps for custom parts whose shape is altered over the factory pieces, a useful dimensional drawing would allow the buyer to figure out any possible incompatibilities before they make the purchase. And of course, a good return policy on top of that, if the issue still can't be seen until the part is in hand.

[Aries_Turbo]

Maybe for the first time you put it together...but didn't hold up for installation/removal...but then...neither did the rest of the welds on that thing

lol. yeah they held up enough to get it together. stainless moves around so much with heat though that i could have tigged the bolts on and they still may have wriggled loose.

Brian

[Reeves]

frank had one of these ones. he put his engine together at my house and put bolts through the holes and then i stick welded (all i had at the time lol) them to the back of the flange. just a few solid tacks... worked like a charm.

brian

I was wondering where those bubble gum welds came from!

Maybe for the first time you put it together...but didn't hold up for installation/removal...but then...neither did the rest of the welds on that thing

I'm really surprised you didn't lose your turbo while driving down the road with that thing. Every single weld on the log section was cracked all the way around! I guess the booster kept your turbo from falling out. So maybe that is not a flaw after all

lol. yeah they held up enough to get it together. stainless moves around so much with heat though that i could have tigged the bolts on and they still may have wriggled loose.

Brian

Those bubble gum stick welds probably had more penetration than the rest of the *factory* welds on that header!