Engine Build went well.. but BIG,BAD VIBES PEOPLE!

[BARRON]

So I got my engine all done for my 2.5L 89 Caravan I am so proud.. everything went great. oil pressure is good,temps are good.. sounds good! all is well

In the rebuild I used:

Clevite bearings
mopar head gasket
Mahle pistons
Perfect Circle Hi-performance rings
T2 rods

Stuff I modified:

Weight Balanced the rods
P&P 782 Head
Converted Garret t1 To T2 Spec
Removed the CB Shafts(tapped/plugged Hole)
Filled motor mounts with automotive goop(this stuff gets hard after sitting 6 months)


I unplug the coil and injectors a whirl the engine over a bit till I seen oil on the cam. plugged everything back in and on the second turn of the key off she went!! WOHOO!!! The boost guage is showing between 16-18Vac and no codes oil pressure good...BUT,,,

... but HOLY VIBRATION BATMAN! Even the roof rack vibrated.. the coolant resevoir rattles.. the dash buzzes... there is a stray screw on top of the radio in there rattling around too! lol!!

After a while things smoothed out a bit.. but man this is not normal. I tried to center the engine best I could.

Is it those NOW solid motor mounts doing this?

Do I need to reinstall the CB shafts?


The engine purrs like a dream... it just... SHAKES THE WHOLE VAN!! lol!


Any help on this before I go yanking out those filled motor mounts and bolting the counterballance shafts back in?

[Frank]

Its not the mounts or the shafts. Those are a high frequency vib that is very barable. The vib you are feeling is probably something that spins slower or is related to a single cylinder. Do the following.... grab the a long screwdriver and use it as a stethescope on different parts of the head, block, and intake and see where it is worse.


Frank

[Stevien1]

Sure you balanced the rods correctly? I didn't have the 2.5 in my van balanced and the screws for the grill vibrated loose after a few days of driving around! It was so bad I had to take the poly motor mounts out. These 4 bangers are pretty rough without the balance shafts UNLESS everything is balanced by the shop.

-Chuck James

[2.216VTurbo]

What did you do for the bobble strut mount, is it some kind of 'custom'? I had the preload wrong on a PB unit and it shook the whole garage Backed off the preload and all was right with the world again Then I read the instructions that Jonny gives with the strut-it specifically states NOT to add preload to the strut

[turbovanman²]

I guarantee you screwed up the balancing of the rods. I had mine professionally balanced and with hard mounts, its smooth as silk. Before, with my deburred rods and a balance job I paid for that didn't get done, no BS's it shook the steering wheel out of my hands at idle,

[BARRON]

I used a digital scale that was used for letters (in grams) and brought them all to 698g which was the lightest one.

I ground on that little square block on the bottom of the rod cap. This is what several people did that I talked to and they had good results...

If I have to tear all this back apart......


*sigh*

[Pat]

Before you tear it down, make sure you installed the side motor mount right side up. I installed one upside down once and it made my car shake like you wouldn't believe...everything was vibrating/rattling!

[turbovanman²]

Before you tear it down, make sure you installed the side motor mount right side up. I installed one upside down once and it made my car shake like you wouldn't believe...everything was vibrating/rattling!

Yes, good point and make sure the front one is also the right way round,

I talked to an engine builder, they balance them the way you did but also they swing them with the pistons, so to speak.

[BARRON]

.. the motor mount was upside down.. it helped the vibration alot... but bah...

I am killing this project right now. I cant afford this right now. $600 for parts and I built this engine by the book and appied the knowledge I have studied and learned on several of these TD sites for over 3 years...

I guess I am no mechanic. I have worked on other parts of an engine.. but I never have rebuilt a block.. it seemed simple enough, machine shop done up the crank and block.. crank turned .010" and block bored .020" and everything pressure tested and checked for flatness and spec. I installed the proper bearings and rings... new oil pump.....

*sigh*

Maybe your right frank. My rod balancing job was probably a flop.. although I cant see how bringing the rods within 2 grams of each other being BAD...

I am going to install the counter balance shafts as a last ditch effort. If all this fails, I am calling the wrecker for the van and lebaron. Period.

I am going out to check the plugs now because it was throwing codes, 13,21 and 61.

Gonna mess with the cam timing a bit too.


This all SEEMED simple enough... but I guess not. CRAP!!!

[Will Martin]

Can I suggest something? I don't take this the wrong way but you sure you have it timed correctly? I bought an '89 Ford Escort with 30k miles on it with the same symptoms, bought it for $600. Know what it was? He had the freakin' spark plug wires switched around! Once I put them in the proper place, "VROOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!" lol Nice commuter car for cheap!

[turbovanman²]

.. the motor mount was upside down.. it helped the vibration alot... but bah...

I am killing this project right now. I cant afford this right now. $600 for parts and I built this engine by the book and appied the knowledge I have studied and learned on several of these TD sites for over 3 years...

I guess I am no mechanic. I have worked on other parts of an engine.. but I never have rebuilt a block.. it seemed simple enough, machine shop done up the crank and block.. crank turned .010" and block bored .020" and everything pressure tested and checked for flatness and spec. I installed the proper bearings and rings... new oil pump.....

*sigh*

Maybe your right frank. My rod balancing job was probably a flop.. although I cant see how bringing the rods within 2 grams of each other being BAD...

I am going to install the counter balance shafts as a last ditch effort. If all this fails, I am calling the wrecker for the van and lebaron. Period.

I am going out to check the plugs now because it was throwing codes, 13,21 and 61.

Gonna mess with the cam timing a bit too.


This all SEEMED simple enough... but I guess not. CRAP!!!

Don't give up, you have too much time and money.

You realize to install the BS shafts the front retainer plate has to come off, so basically the engine has to come back out, otherwise you can't put the chain on without doing so.

[finallall]

I filled my mounts b4 with polyurathane and it ratteled my brains out. I guarantee it that if you REMOVE THE SOLID MOTOR MOUNTS the vibes will go away. Trust me I'm speaking from experience. + If it's a daily driver you don't need solid motor mounts.

Hope you take my advise.

Later.

[BARRON]

all the motor mounts are OEM now. Everything still vibrates like crazy. The engine seems to labour a bit and it has a bit of a knock.

I am going to send this other set of UNALTERED T2 rods I have to the machine shop and have them redo the bushings on the wristpin end. I didnt get the rods done in this rebuild so I think thats where the slight knock(under acceleration) is coming from.

I'll pull the head and oil pan, pull the pistons and replace the rods and the CB shafts.


This is going to be my smooth daily driver and "haul it" machine running about 10psi.


I'll put it to factory spec... and go from there..


I feel better today.. I dont want to personally witness the crushing of these vehicles! ...

[Frank]

Did you grab a screw driver and probe the block and head to figure out where the vibration is going from? Based on the bad vibes, it could be a few things... bent crank pulley, warped cam, warped intermeddiate shaft (unlikely), off centered oil pump gear, mixed ignition wires, bad rocker arm (unlikely). The intermeddiate shaft and oil pump gear will be obvious by the teeth when looking into the distributor whole.



Frank

[BARRON]

http://media.putfile.com/big_mess



Thats what it all sounds like UHHG. The stupid camera dosent pick up the WONDERFULL turbo whistle and big PTTSSHHHH!!! LOL! WOO! That sound drives me on!


My motor was off to the left too far! the front motor mount was slammed tight against the metal!

I'll keep pickn before I tear this apart! I did that too mayny times before over small things! No more!! Opening the block is the last resort! PERIOD!

[BARRON]

I'll go do that frank.. right now. Thanks man.

[bn880]

Something really doesn't sound right there... yes I know very helpful.

[turbovanman²]

Are you sure its firing on all 4 cylinders? It sounds like its only running on 2 or 3? do you have cyls 2 and 3 mixed up? I have done that before, doh!

[BARRON]

...now that I have calmed down from my exuberant screaming and flailing around the yard and doing cartwheels up and down the road as the neighbours quickly usher their children inside.... I will now post.


As I was driving on my little test runs I was noticing that it seemed to increase vibration during acceleration and that it acted a bit squirly and one time I DISTINCTLY felt a CV joint vibration.. but it was only for a second during one of the drives. I kept thinking... man.. it sounds like something is impacting.. metal on metal... metal oonnn.. METAL!!!!!!


I yank in the yard and jack it up on the drivers side and yank the wheel off... and there there it was....

A COMPLETELY BUSTED TRANSMISSION MOUNT!! THE SQUARE TUBING PART WAS RIPPED RIGHT THROUGH THE RUBBER... AND HAMMERING ON THE METAL TOP OF THE MOUNT HOLDER AS THE TRANSMISSION SLAPPED AROUND AND RATTLED LIKE AN IMPACT GUN!


WHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAOOOOO!!!!

Replaced that mount center the engine and all is well... smoooooth. And let me tell you this bugger hauls like a freight train!!! From a stop, croud that pedal 1/3 of its distance and that turbo spools and the tires start fighting pavement. I havent even got this thing really tuned in yet and its only got.. what maybe 1/2hr on the engine. After a week of tuning... rooting out buggs and man..

THIS IS IT! This is what I have missed for 6 long years!! BOOOST!!!! .. and this is only stock..wow.. I cant believe what 12-14psi intercooled is gonna feel like... oh WOW.


A BIG THANK YOU!! To the TURBO DODGE Community(s)!!! A BIG BIG THANK YOU!


I DID IT PEOPLE!! I BUILT IT RIGHT! I KNEW IT!

[Directconnection]

... but HOLY VIBRATION BATMAN! Even the roof rack vibrated.. the coolant resevoir rattles.. the dash buzzes... there is a stray screw on top of the radio in there rattling around too! lol!!

After a while things smoothed out a bit.. but man this is not normal. I tried to center the engine best I could.

Is it those NOW solid motor mounts doing this?

2 questions: What is meant by solid mounts? If you have any part of the metal frame of the front engine mount touching the bracket on the car's frame, you will experience severe vibration. That's why they call them isolators instead of engine mounts. Engine needs to be supported indepentandlty with rubber of some sort. Next question... how did you balance the rods? You don't simply put them on a digital scale to balance them. Did you remove metal from the crank?