wisco pistons on '85 press pin rods?

[Spraynlog]

I'm wondering if Wisco pistons can be used on the heavier '85 press pin rods, or would T2 rods be required?

It looks like TU has the Wisco's in stock, are they a good choice for a street driven car that sees weekend strip time? I've heard some forged pistons make quite a bit of noise/piston slap.

[Directconnection]

I won't be the one to say "it's ok" as I've never done these on a 2.2/2.5. But, it shouldn't matter as we often see BB Chevy JEs, TRW's, etc... that have the provision for spiral locks (or wire locks on KB, Sealed Power, etc...) being used on a stock BB Chevy "dimple" 7/16" rod. The rod locks the pin, and you still need to check the clearances on the piston to pin fitment in the exact same manner as if it were floating.
So.. on a SB Chevy... they use a .927 pin.... the bore in the piston will be machined in accordance for the supplied pin (usually they come to tight at maybe just .0002 to .0006 clearances) For a "race" setup, we set the piston to pin clearances to .0007" clearances. The rod has no affect on this, as the pressed pin setup has the small end of the rod typically .0015" smaller than the .9270" pin. If it were a floating rod, then the rod's pin bushing would be delivered from the factory around .0002" to .0007" and we make sure we hone these to a .0010" clearance.

[puppet]

While on the subject Steve .. does your shop slightly oval the big ends of the rods (bigger across the parting line)? I know a couple shops that do that for a little extra insurance when the tach's are used as fans Theory is that @ high rpm or load stresses the big end does/will distort ... and with the clearances like we run (kind of tight) and a perfectly round big end, the bearings joint will push against the journals wiping the oil film out and eventually puking a rod/spin a bearing.

I'd like to try this on my next build.

[Directconnection]

While on the subject Steve .. does your shop slightly oval the big ends of the rods (bigger across the parting line)? I know a couple shops that do that for a little extra insurance when the tach's are used as fans Theory is that @ high rpm or load stresses the big end does/will distort ... and with the clearances like we run (kind of tight) and a perfectly round big end, the bearings joint will push against the journals wiping the oil film out and eventually puking a rod/spin a bearing.

I'd like to try this on my next build.

I've read of this procedure a while back. But no, our shops do NOT do this whatsoever. That "oval" shape is built into the bearing if you ever use a dial indicator or sunnen rod gauge to verify your clearances (most accurate way)

We build all sorts of high performance engines... from only 150hp ministocks, to 950hp N/A smallblocks and 2,000+hp BB Chevys. I do all the rod resizing, and have never been asked to do the "shim" trick. Now, there's a trick called "angle cutting" the caps... which I believe is meant to get the parting line sections to either come it, or out.... I forget, as I have yet to do it, so see it. Another old school trick...

[Spraynlog]

I won't be the one to say "it's ok" as I've never done these on a 2.2/2.5. But, it shouldn't matter as we often see BB Chevy JEs, TRW's, etc... that have the provision for spiral locks (or wire locks on KB, Sealed Power, etc...) being used on a stock BB Chevy "dimple" 7/16" rod. The rod locks the pin, and you still need to check the clearances on the piston to pin fitment in the exact same manner as if it were floating.
So.. on a SB Chevy... they use a .927 pin.... the bore in the piston will be machined in accordance for the supplied pin (usually they come to tight at maybe just .0002 to .0006 clearances) For a "race" setup, we set the piston to pin clearances to .0007" clearances. The rod has no affect on this, as the pressed pin setup has the small end of the rod typically .0015" smaller than the .9270" pin. If it were a floating rod, then the rod's pin bushing would be delivered from the factory around .0002" to .0007" and we make sure we hone these to a .0010" clearance.

Thanks for the reply. I think the rods for the 2.2 have a .901 size wrist pin, but the Wiscos from TU give the option of that size when you order the pistons. My reason for asking was,of course, due to my having a set of '85 press pin rods on hand, saving me the cost of buying T2 rods for a rebuild. Too bad you are so far away, I'd drop by and discuss the rebuild.

[Directconnection]

Too bad you are so far away, I'd drop by and discuss the rebuild.

Yeah, I'm always one to help when I can.

Ask Moparloper on here.... I gave him waaaaay too much TM info when we met up a few weeks back. hehehe I must have pulled out 200 pages of flowbench records.

[turbovanman²]

Late to the party but it doesn't matter how the pins are held in, so if you have the rod small end properly resized for the wrist pin, then your fine, no clips needed.

[moparloper]

Yeah, I'm always one to help when I can.

Ask Moparloper on here.... I gave him waaaaay too much TM info when we met up a few weeks back. hehehe I must have pulled out 200 pages of flowbench records.

Hey Steve,
I wound'nt say I've ever seen too much data, but it was refreashing to see real data from someone that actually produced it! After seeing the shop and the work you do I will easily say that any advice you give is sound real world advice and should be highly respected!
As to the OP, isn't the small end of the early rods the same size as TII rods? Are the pins for floating and pressed even the same size? If you have to have work done to them why not just go ahead and have them bushed?

[Spraynlog]

Hey Steve,
I wound'nt say I've ever seen too much data, but it was refreashing to see real data from someone that actually produced it! After seeing the shop and the work you do I will easily say that any advice you give is sound real world advice and should be highly respected!
As to the OP, isn't the small end of the early rods the same size as TII rods? Are the pins for floating and pressed even the same size? If you have to have work done to them why not just go ahead and have them bushed?

I think you are correct about the small end being the same size, I'd rather avoid running the clips, as I have heard of them tearing up cylinder walls, and the press pins should do fine.

[Directconnection]

I think you are correct about the small end being the same size, I'd rather avoid running the clips, as I have heard of them tearing up cylinder walls, and the press pins should do fine.

The pins should be the same size whether floating or pressed. At least that's what I see here at work on every motor we build.

The piston manufacturer give you the option of what rod you're using, so they give you clips/locks if it's going onto a full floating rod, or you can omit them if they are being press fit (stock or aftermarket) or

[Directconnection]

Hey Steve,
I wound'nt say I've ever seen too much data, but it was refreashing to see real data from someone that actually produced it! After seeing the shop and the work you do I will easily say that any advice you give is sound real world advice and should be highly respected!

Glad you appreciated it! I admit, back then... I should have been out "clubbing" vs burning the midnight oil on a Friday or Saturday evening with a flowbench

[Spraynlog]

The pins should be the same size whether floating or pressed. At least that's what I see here at work on every motor we build.

The piston manufacturer give you the option of what rod you're using, so they give you clips/locks if it's going onto a full floating rod, or you can omit them if they are being press fit (stock or aftermarket) or

Do you have any preferences between Wisco and Venolia slugs?

[turbovanman²]

Do you have any preferences between Wisco and Venolia slugs?

Both are tough, both are quiet if you set the piston clearance properly.

I prefer Venolia as they use a standard Dodge ring pack as I like to blow engines up. If your easy on engines, doesn't matter,

[moparloper]

I knew something was different between pressed and floating pins, the diameters are the same, it's the length that is different. Pressed are 61-62MM long and floating are 68.9MM. So centering the pin during the pressing is alittle more critical.
As for locks coming out and damaging the bores, that really only happens when the wrong lock was used. I don't think Ma Mopar would have risked most of her high performance engines if there was a concern with locks coming out.
Bushed rods just makes it easier on you to disassembly and put back together if you have to change a piston, unless you have the tools to press them on and off.

[turbovanman²]

I want to avoid running clips as I have heard of them tearing up cylinder walls, .

Only if you install them wrong or use the wrong ones. OE's use them on tons of engines, so if they were bad, they wouldn't use them.

[Spraynlog]

Only if you install them wrong or use the wrong ones. OE's use them on tons of engines, so if they were bad, they wouldn't use them.

Very true, but the rods are press pin, so it's just one less thing to go wrong.