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Thread: Laser XE coming back

  1. #61
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    They are saying by simply adding that box I'll drop 1/2? If this was any other product saying that, it would be in the lounge and we'd be making fun of it.
    Did you see their chart? Are you running 18's?

    Jacobs Electronics Guarantees the Following 1/4 Mile Results:
    If the present 1/4 mile ET is: ACCUVOLT REDUCES ET BY AT LEAST
    Accuvolt at 14V Accuvolt at 16V
    Below 6.49 sec No Data No Data
    6.50 - 7.99 sec 0.15 sec 0.17 sec
    8.00 - 9.49 sec 0.19 sec 0.22 sec
    9.50 - 10.99 sec 0.21 sec 0.25 sec
    11.00 - 12.49 sec 0.25 sec 0.29 sec
    12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec
    14.00 - 15.49 sec 0.33 sec 0.38 sec
    15.50 - 16.99 sec 0.38 sec 0.43 sec
    17.00 - 18.49 sec 0.42 sec 0.47 sec
    18.50 - and above 0.50 sec 0.56 sec
    And do you know how much HP an alternator robs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    How do you get 1/2 out of .29 ? Is that metric time?
    ROFLMAO!

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  2. #62
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    How do you get 1/2 out of .29 ? Is that metric time?
    Yeah, lol. Sorry, .34 sec's, but close enough,

    That's still a bold statement.
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  3. #63
    ...on your color TV screen... Turbo Mopar Contributor Reeves's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Yeah, lol. Sorry, .34 sec's, but close enough,

    That's still a bold statement.
    Your 1/4 mile times are closer to .29 range.

    James Reeves - Reeves Racing
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  4. #64
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    Your 1/4 mile times are closer to .29 range.
    Voltage says .34volts-

    12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec

    Quote Originally Posted by badassperformance

    Jacobs Electronics Guarantees the Following 1/4 Mile Results:
    If the present 1/4 mile ET is: ACCUVOLT REDUCES ET BY AT LEAST
    Accuvolt at 14V Accuvolt at 16V
    Below 6.49 sec No Data No Data
    6.50 - 7.99 sec 0.15 sec 0.17 sec
    8.00 - 9.49 sec 0.19 sec 0.22 sec
    9.50 - 10.99 sec 0.21 sec 0.25 sec
    11.00 - 12.49 sec 0.25 sec 0.29 sec
    12.50 - 13.99 sec 0.29 sec 0.34 sec
    14.00 - 15.49 sec 0.33 sec 0.38 sec
    15.50 - 16.99 sec 0.38 sec 0.43 sec
    17.00 - 18.49 sec 0.42 sec 0.47 sec
    18.50 - and above 0.50 sec 0.56 sec
    And do you know how much HP an alternator robs?
    Did you actually read the chart?

    I am not off by saying 1/2 sec as they claim a minimim of .34 secs if I up the voltage.

    That's still a wicked claim, and they say AT LEAST!
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
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  5. #65

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    They are saying by simply adding that box I'll drop 1/2? If this was any other product saying that, it would be in the lounge and we'd be making fun of it.
    Marketing hype aside it is a high quality piece and works exactly as advertized. it uses capacitors to regulate the power. I weighs 8lbs, so I mounted it in front; behind the headlamp cover for cooling and traction.
    I wanted to loose the alt. weight and I was throwing alt. belts. I found this new on EBay for the price of dirt, only one other bidder. Also, Jacobs was bought out by Prestolite and they threw away the parts and components for the FR units. They are no longer available new.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    best 1/8 ET-6.16 sec. best 1/8 speed-119.70 Best 1/4 MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.65 sec. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  6. #66

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    A good friend of mine who runs a NHRA National event winning Super Stocker Dropped 2 tenths off his mid eleven sec. car by kicking the voltage up to 16V.......EVERYTHING works better at the higher voltage.
    best 1/8 ET-6.16 sec. best 1/8 speed-119.70 Best 1/4 MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.65 sec. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  7. #67
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeves View Post
    http://www.jacobselectronics.com.au/raceaccuvolt.htm

    I've been looking at these as well, to kill the alternator when racing.....they are $$$ though.

    I have an older version.
    Assuming you're using the LM/SMEC/SBEC built-in voltage regulation, the ECU already kills the alternator when at WOT. The problem is, the battery volts then will drop to as low as ~10.5 volts on a sinlge 1/4 mile pass (in my car at least). I'm conerned about spark energy and injector pulsewidth at those voltages. We do have the latency table that should at least partially compenste the injector PW. And, I added the dwell time compensation from battery volts to T-SMEC for this very reason. But, I'd still prefer to have 12+ volts at the end of the run.

    I don't see this thing taking 3 tenths off my 1/4 mile time, though. Maybe on a V8...
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  8. #68
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    Marketing hype aside it is a high quality piece and works exactly as advertized. it uses capacitors to regulate the power. I weighs 8lbs, so I mounted it in front; behind the headlamp cover for cooling and traction.
    I wanted to loose the alt. weight and I was throwing alt. belts. I found this new on EBay for the price of dirt, only one other bidder. Also, Jacobs was bought out by Prestolite and they threw away the parts and components for the FR units. They are no longer available new.
    I agree it looks like a quality unit, just the claims kinda throw me, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    A good friend of mine who runs a NHRA National event winning Super Stocker Dropped 2 tenths off his mid eleven sec. car by kicking the voltage up to 16V.......EVERYTHING works better at the higher voltage.
    That's alot, wow,
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    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

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  9. #69
    ...on your color TV screen... Turbo Mopar Contributor Reeves's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Assuming you're using the LM/SMEC/SBEC built-in voltage regulation, the ECU already kills the alternator when at WOT. The problem is, the battery volts then will drop to as low as ~10.5 volts on a sinlge 1/4 mile pass (in my car at least). I'm conerned about spark energy and injector pulsewidth at those voltages. We do have the latency table that should at least partially compenste the injector PW. And, I added the dwell time compensation from battery volts to T-SMEC for this very reason. But, I'd still prefer to have 12+ volts at the end of the run.
    Seriously? I never knew that.

    But, to think about that, I've been in some slower cars and was at WOT for a good bit and never saw the headlights dim or anything.

    With fuel pump and fan on in my OMNI and engine not running, it doesn't take long to hear the voltage go down via pump musical notes...

    Does the alt come back on at WOT when the battery gets to X voltage or when X amount of time has passed?

    James Reeves - Reeves Racing
    World's Fastest 8 Valve - 146.88 mph
    86 GLH-T 9.99 at 143.78 mph
    86 GLHS #169 Mom's - complete Super 60 car
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  10. #70

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Indeed, I dont think that is true...at least not with the LM. It's an interesting idea, though.

  11. #71
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Well, damn, you made me go look and now I don't see it in the code. But, I know the cal I've been running in my race car does it - I've datalogged the bat volts and it does drop thru the whole run down to ~10.5 volts. As soon as I lift, it pops back up to ~13.5v.

    The cal in my race car is a stock-based cal (haven't had enought track time this year to tune a T-SMEC cal for it and it's fast with the current cal). I seem to recall I may have made some kind of modification to it to get it to stop charging at WOT. Let me check into it some more...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
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  12. #72

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Hehe. My memory works similarly. My daily driver (Frankentona) has a S70. I do a fair amount of city driving so it's pretty much floored most of the time. Were this true, I'd have to put my car on the charger every night like an electric car.

  13. #73
    ...on your color TV screen... Turbo Mopar Contributor Reeves's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    I seem to recall I may have made some kind of modification to it to get it to stop charging at WOT. Let me check into it some more...

    Me and you talked about this one time. I asked if you could add code to kill the alt at wot. I was wanting to try it. You were going to test it. I think that maybe what you are thinking of.

    James Reeves - Reeves Racing
    World's Fastest 8 Valve - 146.88 mph
    86 GLH-T 9.99 at 143.78 mph
    86 GLHS #169 Mom's - complete Super 60 car
    87 Shelby Z 14.16 Dad's - mostly stock, no sh*t!
    88 Shelby Z 13.5 - been in storage for 15 years
    03 SRT-4 12.24 Mom's
    07 Charger 5.7L 12.48 Dad's

  14. #74
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    No, my race cal definitely has it. I'm thinking this is something I added a long time ago and forgot about. I need to dis-assemble that section of my race cal and see what I did. I hate it when I forget $hit... lol...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
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  15. #75
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Yep, I found the dis-assy of my race cal. The alternator cut at WOT was a modification I made. I totally forgot about it and thought it was stock. Well, it's going in my terminator code, now...

    Sorry for the off-topic discussion, back to drooling over Warren's car...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

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  16. #76
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Hey warren, your car ain't good nuff.

    I would go with a Motobatt battery. I just ditched my completely smoked PC680 Odyssy and am using a 21AH Motobatt that weighs the same and has also been shown to take abuse unlike any other of the SLA batteries.

    The below thread shows these batteries doing 50 start attempts in a row (unassisted) on a V10 Triton, then other huge abuses like hooking them up to a flood light overnight multiple times, draining the batteries completely, charging them, etc etc etc.
    You will like that read. It even shows how the batteries retain voltage over time when they have been abused.

    After all the abuse the Motobatt comes out on top, the Odyssy (which is just an overpriced Genesis) is 2nd.
    http://boulevardowners.com/cafe/inde...topicID=157926

    Seems like the right choice for how much your electrical system will abuse the batteries. The Motobatts are also a lot cheaper then the rebadged Genesis batteries so when you are forced to replace them at a longer interval then any other battery, it will be cheaper. I bought mine on their Ebay store and it arrived 3 days later on basic shipping.

    BTW I wouldn't bother with the metal jacket versions Of Odyssy. My friend showed me you can just pry off the metal. It is just a metal case stock on with a hot glue gun, and you already have a nice metal case.
    Last edited by Ondonti; 08-19-2010 at 04:45 PM.
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  17. #77
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    BTW it seems you guys are missing something. Warrens setup puts out 16v even at 9.75 volts Battery voltage. This keeps his car consistent.


    But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing. The megasquirt ECU has a specific setting for Dwell time (coil) based on battery voltage. You drop to 10 volts and there is a HUGE decrease in coil output, which is why megasquirt uses a correction table

    Here is how the table breaks down for the coil (basic settings that you can change if you want to).
    6v 500% correction
    8v 248% correction
    10v 168% correction
    12v 128% correction
    14v 102% correction
    16v 88% correction (Warren Land)

    And my experience is that Megasquirt developers are complete nerds who LOVE this type of stuff more then making HP etc. They get this stuff right. They probably have corrections for other things but don't give you ability to change it. On the MS, messing with the dwell can either nuke your coil circuit in the ECU or melt the coil, and I those are usually cheap things to replace. Nobody wants to destroy injectors etc.

    The coil is an extreme example but everything in your EFI changes when voltage changes.

    When 0.5MS of injector timing can be the difference between boom and zoom, do you want to chance it?
    And the obvious problem will be that fuel pump output drops HUGE when voltage drops. So combine that with everything else and
    Another thing I noticed while datalogging MS is that it measures ignition timing % of error. I ever even thought of such a thing. Just another issue to keep in mind.

    For a slow car, who cares, but the more HP you make per displacement, the finer edge you tread.

    Right now I am using an oldschool regulator and it keeps the voltage right at 14-14.1
    Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56

  18. #78

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    The Electromotive Tech EFI that I run has adlustable low voltage compensation so it has never been an issue for me with an alternator. I would never want to shut down the alt on my car during WOT. (unless you had another way to keep the voltage up) the LAST thing I want is current and voltage to ramp down or change at all. It causes too many tuning varyables, how can you accurately predict optimun injector PW when fuel psi and volumn are a moving target because of system voltage change?
    What about ignition system current change? Ive always tried to eliminate as many variables as possible for max consistancy.
    best 1/8 ET-6.16 sec. best 1/8 speed-119.70 Best 1/4 MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.65 sec. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  19. #79
    ...on your color TV screen... Turbo Mopar Contributor Reeves's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing.
    No one said anything about my system not maintaining voltage

    James Reeves - Reeves Racing
    World's Fastest 8 Valve - 146.88 mph
    86 GLH-T 9.99 at 143.78 mph
    86 GLHS #169 Mom's - complete Super 60 car
    87 Shelby Z 14.16 Dad's - mostly stock, no sh*t!
    88 Shelby Z 13.5 - been in storage for 15 years
    03 SRT-4 12.24 Mom's
    07 Charger 5.7L 12.48 Dad's

  20. #80
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    BTW it seems you guys are missing something. Warrens setup puts out 16v even at 9.75 volts Battery voltage. This keeps his car consistent.
    No, I got that. It was an off-topic side discussion about our cals.


    But if Reeves system does not maintain voltage, that is a bad thing. The megasquirt ECU has a specific setting for Dwell time (coil) based on battery voltage. You drop to 10 volts and there is a HUGE decrease in coil output, which is why megasquirt uses a correction table
    It's not Reeves car, it's mine that shuts off the alternator at WOT...

    Here is how the table breaks down for the coil (basic settings that you can change if you want to).
    6v 500% correction
    8v 248% correction
    10v 168% correction
    12v 128% correction
    14v 102% correction
    16v 88% correction (Warren Land)
    The table I added to my SMEC code is very similar.

    And my experience is that Megasquirt developers are complete nerds who LOVE this type of stuff more then making HP etc. They get this stuff right. They probably have corrections for other things but don't give you ability to change it. On the MS, messing with the dwell can either nuke your coil circuit in the ECU or melt the coil, and I those are usually cheap things to replace. Nobody wants to destroy injectors etc.

    The coil is an extreme example but everything in your EFI changes when voltage changes.

    When 0.5MS of injector timing can be the difference between boom and zoom, do you want to chance it?
    And the obvious problem will be that fuel pump output drops HUGE when voltage drops. So combine that with everything else and
    Another thing I noticed while datalogging MS is that it measures ignition timing % of error. I ever even thought of such a thing. Just another issue to keep in mind.

    Right, that's what the injector latecy table is for - PW/voltage compensation. That's stock in our cals. Actaully, I think every EFI code every written has that...

    For a slow car, who cares, but the more HP you make per displacement, the finer edge you tread.

    Right now I am using an oldschool regulator and it keeps the voltage right at 14-14.1
    Yes, I agree that keeping voltage up is good. However, it also takes up to 10HP to run the alternator at full speed and full load. When you're only making ~250hp to start with, that's a big difference. Of course, I don't know how much I'm giving up by letting the voltage drop to ~11V...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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