Laser XE coming back

[turbovanman²]

Is that a forged crank Warren? Can't add anything else, damn sexy,

Any update on your int/aux shaft mods?

[Warren Stramer]

Is that a forged crank Warren? Can't add anything else, damn sexy,

Any update on your int/aux shaft mods?

Yup, factory forging. Rob sourced it from a bone yard I think. some kind of TII without balance shafts.
Have had no more problems with I shaft. last time I inspected it, it looked real good.

[Shadow]

That Winberg 4 counter weight Mitsu crank looks like it would damn near drop in our engines.

I was almost going to say the exact same thing when I looked at it.

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

Have had no more problems with I shaft. last time I inspected it, it looked real good.

Almost busted a gut on this one! When you said you had no more problems I thought you were going to say because now you have 1/2 doz of them!!!

[turbovanman²]

Yup, factory forging. Rob sourced it from a bone yard I think. some kind of TII without balance shafts.
Have had no more problems with I shaft. last time I inspected it, it looked real good.

Thanks and thanks,

[ShelGame]

Warren - any updates on you car? Racing season is just around the corner

Also, what do you run for water lines with the electric W/P? I'm still trying to think of ways to take weight out of my car. And well, water weighs 8lbs/gallon. I was thinking about maybe reducing the size of the water hoses now that I'm running an electric water pump and it's not turning as fast as stock. Well, not as fast as stock above idle...

[Force Fed Mopar]

I think Warren has a new cam planned...

[speedfreek500]

I think Warren has a new cam planned...

Very interested in what he decides to use.

[Force Fed Mopar]

Very interested in what he decides to use.

Nothing off the shelf He has been running custom grind cams for a while now.

[Warren Stramer]

Warren - any updates on you car? Racing season is just around the corner

Also, what do you run for water lines with the electric W/P? I'm still trying to think of ways to take weight out of my car. And well, water weighs 8lbs/gallon. I was thinking about maybe reducing the size of the water hoses now that I'm running an electric water pump and it's not turning as fast as stock. Well, not as fast as stock above idle...

Been meaning to update for a long time but life keeps getting in the way. My elderly Mother has been ill, my wifes grandfather needs 24hr care and we are his co-powers of attorney. Also my son is having health issues so I have had to put my engine project down in priority.

But after finally aquiring a block suitable for the target HP I am planning, I am slowly getting things going forward.

All the parts are here except for the crankshaft I sent to Winberg last October, Randy Windberg agreed to take on my crank as a personal project, so I dont push him, but he did call and say It was all done except for the finish grinding.

Talked to Wiseco, Diamond,Ross and JE to have my custom piston design made. Only JE had a forging blank light enough to suit me, so after sending spec./dimensions and cad drawings back and forth they were able to make me some nice light 2.2 pistons. I am very happy how they turned out.

Got my rods, ALL USA forged and machined by Callies.


Had another 'big' cam ground, and have it ready to go. Has a few more degrees duration, tighter 112 LSA, same .605 lift (solid)

Have my new turbo (GTX 3582R with .82AR hot side, dual bbrg.)

Had new better exhaust valves made by Manley

Sourced some better stronger head studs

So now I'm doing the block prep work before machining.......I enlarged the main oil feed holes from the main gallery to the main hsg bores (.250) and polished the ID of virtually every oil passage in the block. Also radiused every internal oil passage intersection point.

I'm grinding and smoothing the entire inner crankcase surface after which I will shot peen all the surfaces and apply red glyptal.

Block will be filled to within 1.5" of the deck w/ hard block, cooling system flow will be from cyl head end to end, and also will be fed into the upper rear of the block. I have all the fittings and mandral tubing for it.

So, thats about where it is at, getting ready for machining and fitting of the billet main caps.

I wished to be assembling it by now but finding the right block took a couple extra months and other things set me back. I only have a few pics of the rods and pistons so far. thats about it from North Dakota.



,

[trannybuster]

Would def. like to know how those pistons work out...most people dont understand the piston is a huge factor making big power and reducing friction/weight . Formula 1 engine designers keep their pistons designs 'top secret'....also debated sending head and pistons out for themal coating to put energy (heat) back into the exhaust instead of letting the pistons and head absorb so much of it.

[4 l-bodies]

Okay Warren,
Looking at these pistons has me scratching my head a bit. Don't have a real good look straight on but pretty much look like flat-tops to me. Valve reliefs don't look very large for .600 lift camshaft. Can't remember if your running g-head or swirl. Tops of pistons look alot like 8V TBI (lol). So does this mean that pistons are WAY down the hole or is compression ratio WAY higher than normal? Perhaps a combination of the two? Or are these all secrets? Asymmetrical piston. First I've seen on TD motor.
One of the Masi guys had Ross make him up some pistons. A stock Masi motor uses a very heavy 49cc dish piston (that is not a misprint) combined with about a 30cc chamber. Ross comes back with a nice light flat-top piston design, sticking a mere .284 below deck! They just abandoned the quench for a far lighter piston and more complete burning chamber. I would think that running no quench it would become more detonation sensitive, but with you running 115-117 octane, you probably don't have to worry bout that much (lol). Is quench not important or overrated in boosted applications? IMO, the factory dished pistons are really a very poor design for quench anyway. I have always altered CH height and dish to get better quench up till now with custom piston orders.
Anyway, looks good as always Warren.
Todd

[Force Fed Mopar]

What were you looking for in the block?

[bakes]

hmmmm some ti wrist pins would just put me over the edge !!!!

ps do you have the part number for the valve lash caps you used with the last cam?

ever thought about a one piece gridle with 4 bolt mains c&c from a solid billett ?

[Reaper1]

Warren, what did you determine you HP goal to be? I have pretty much nailed down where I have to be for my goals, I'm just wondering how close our goals might be?

What block did you end up with? I have an idea on that as well.

I have a friend of mine that uses Hemi studs in our engines. He drills out and re-taps the block, and also drills out the head to accept them. Is this the direction you took?

I actually have a block that I ground the insides of and polished. I peened the casting lines with a ball peen hammer as well. My intent was to cover it in Glyptal, but I never got around to it.

I like your pistons What pin size did you go with? I was also kinda wondering about the big end of the rod as far as size goes? Knowing that you basically have a custom crank on the way, I know what *I'd* do.

Todd, I agree that our stock piston designs are CRAP! Quench is even MORE important in a boosted application IMHO. I had a design many years ago of an asymmetrical piston for SOHC engines. They had a ramp on the intake side to force the charge to the exhaust side of the chamber, the outer perimeter was to have a VERY tight tolerance to the chamber for quench, and the exhaust side was a small dish. By this design, theoretically the charge would be forced into the small area just under the spark plug and the exhaust valve. For ignition it is good because the flame front has to travel a much smaller distance to burn the charge. For exhaust it is good because it forces the gasses out of the exhaust valve and due to the design it *should* push more of those gasses out resulting in better turbo response and a cleaner chamber for the next charge.

Todd, remember he can use a ramp on his cam to keep the valves away from the piston just long enough to where he doesn't need huge valve reliefs. I don't know what the threshold for ramp angle can be on his set-up, but I'm betting something like this is incorporated into his design.

Trannybuster, what type of racing are you doing? The reason I ask is because the discussion of using ceramic coatings on drag engines lead to this conclusion (which Warren agreed with): in drag racing the engine isn't being pushed long enough to really take advantage of that type of coating. Most people think it's some sort of magic power-adder, but it's not. It has more to do with durability of the engine over a long period of time being pushed. So, therefor, drag racing engines will not really see a benefit to ceramic coating the pistons, chambers, valves, or exhaust ports. In applications such as road racing or land speed racing, then you will start to reap the benefits of those coatings. In everyday driving, it *might* gain you some responsiveness because you can add a bit more timing (something Gary D didn't agree with, but was proven), and you *might* get a little better economy (that one hasn't been proven that I know of).

---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

hmmmm some ti wrist pins would just put me over the edge !!!!

ps do you have the part number for the valve lash caps you used with the last cam?

ever thought about a one piece gridle with 4 bolt mains c&c from a solid billett ?

I have! Does that count!? LOL

[bakes]

you have a bed plate made up or ti wrist pins???

[Reaper1]

you have a bed plate made up or ti wrist pins???

No, the same idea for a bedplate. I have 4-bolt mains all the way down the block. If that can't hold the bottom of the engine together at 760chp@8200rpm, then I'm going to implement some of the hardcore tricks I've learned about over the years. Going that route would mean the only thing holding that engine back from making 1000+chp is fuel, sealing, and the block's outer wall strength, or head chamber strength...all of which can be overcome (oh, and the head's flowing characteristics, but boost will overcome some amazing things). It won't be cheap, but it'll be darn near bulletproof.

[Warren Stramer]

Warren, what did you determine you HP goal to be? I have pretty much nailed down where I have to be for my goals, I'm just wondering how close our goals might be?

Looking for 700-750 CSHP.

I have a friend of mine that uses Hemi studs in our engines. He drills out and re-taps the block, and also drills out the head to accept them. Is this the direction you took?

No, my intake ports are too thin near the stud bore, I sourced some non undercut 11mm made from ARP 2000 material.

I like your pistons What pin size did you go with? I was also kinda wondering about the big end of the rod as far as size goes? Knowing that you basically have a custom crank on the way, I know what *I'd* do.

Pins are .866, rods are off the shelf SRT4 stock

[QUOTE=Reaper1;984866]Todd, I agree that our stock piston designs are CRAP! Quench is even MORE important in a boosted application IMHO. I had a design many years ago of an asymmetrical piston for SOHC engines. They had a ramp on the intake side to force the charge to the exhaust side of the chamber, the outer perimeter was to have a VERY tight tolerance to the chamber for quench, and the exhaust side was a small dish. By this design, theoretically the charge would be forced into the small area just under the spark plug and the exhaust valve. For ignition it is good because the flame front has to travel a much smaller distance to burn the charge. For exhaust it is good because it forces the gasses out of the exhaust valve and due to the design it *should* push more of those gasses out resulting in better turbo response and a cleaner chamber for the next charge.[/QUOTE[

I have become convinced that in a high boost application, because of the already highly homogenous intake charge, due to the unuasually high differencial pressure, too much quench is counter productive.The trend is to "soft" mostly open chambers for turbo race apps.

Todd, remember he can use a ramp on his cam to keep the valves away from the piston just long enough to where he doesn't need huge valve reliefs. I don't know what the threshold for ramp angle can be on his set-up, but I'm betting something like this is incorporated into his design

If you are willing to run these as interfearence engines you dont need valve relieves, as there is a mile of clearence. as long as it stays close to being in time. I have a measured V/P clearence of .471 exh., and .395 int. with the current cam and .083 deep valve relieves. BUT, if the timing would get too far out of phase, the valves will hit the pistons.

[Reaper1]

Looking for 700-750 CSHP.

No, my intake ports are too thin near the stud bore, I sourced some non undercut 11mm made from ARP 2000 material.

Pins are .866, rods are off the shelf SRT4 stock

I have become convinced that in a high boost application, because of the already highly homogenous intake charge, due to the unuasually high differencial pressure, too much quench is counter productive.The trend is to "soft" mostly open chambers for turbo race apps.

If you are willing to run these as interfearence engines you dont need valve relieves, as there is a mile of clearence. as long as it stays close to being in time. I have a measured V/P clearence of .471 exh., and .395 int. with the current cam and .083 deep valve relieves. BUT, if the timing would get too far out of phase, the valves will hit the pistons.

I'll be following you closely on how well your engine does since we both have roughly the same goals. I'm sure yours will be much more efficient than mine, though! That'll have to be something I work on later.

Nice on the studs! I don't know how I'd be able to do it since the Masi uses a different bolt type all together. I know I can't run the Hemi stuff because there is NO room in the head for the head of the fastener. I thought you were the one that worked out that the studs put a strange pressure on the engine someplace and that bolts were better? I know you used pressure sensitive film to determine head sealing and that's how you came up with the extra bolts in the head.

Those are nice rods for sure!

I don't know why I throw out the option of an interference engine...especially a race only engine. DUH! I'm interested to see how your design works. I'm taking a stab and thinking the pistons sit below the deck, just like the 2.4? That would sure make them a heck of a lot lighter!

[Force Fed Mopar]

What were you looking for in the block?

Bump

[Warren Stramer]

What were you looking for in the block?

Assuming the absence of obvious flaws such as rust,cracks,breakage, or previous machining errors, I am mostly interested in the cyl. wall thickness and overall casting quality, such as little to no core shift.
Try as I may, I could not find ANYONE in our comunity that had First hand expierience sonic thickness testing ANY of the available blocks, Everyone I contacted said "they just had the machine shop check them"
or "my machinist said its fine" or "its about .250 or maybe .300". I was told TIII blocks were extra thick.
I have one block (a TIV )that had been sonic tested by a reputable machine shop that even came with the sonic test sheet. But their thickness figure were obviously bogus as it shows over .420 thickness between bores which is impossible. (and I verifyed it with my tester)

SO, using my own sonic micrometer I determined to find out for myself which blocks were really the best casting with the thickest walls. Now I realize testing 8 blocks is a small sample of the hundreds of thousands Chrysler produced, but I did find a trend, at least in my small test.

What I found is first, the Masi blocks dont seem to be anything other than a early production TII block. Although I was not able to sonic check one, I looked at photos of every Masi block I could find, and talked to owners of them to get numbers and such, and I'm convinced they were just pulled off the TII assembly line.

The TII blocks I tested and very thoroughly inspected(5 total), have the thinnest walls and the poorest casting quality (late 1988-early1990) These blocks were all over the place with core shift and wall thickness. The only consistant attribute of these five blocks is that they were all thin (.130-.165) in the lower front cyl. walls, and all have a casting/parting line midway up each cyl. sometimes quite deep, leaving a thin casting crack as thin as .115. on one.

The TIV block I checked out was NO different than a production TII block, Not in any way, except for the threaded holes for a counter balance asbly.

The one TIII block I aquired does have measurably thicker walls than the TII blocks, but NOT even near .300thou. this one averages .240 wall thickness.

It appears to me sometime after 1990 Chrysler made all new casting cores for the common block, as every block I have seen cast after that time is head and shoulders better in EVERY regard. the main webbing is the same on the TIII block as on any 1990 or later TBI block. the only significant difference I can find between the late TBI block and the TIII is the front crankcase vent and the absence of the drilled dist hole on the TIII and the turbo drain back hole on the TBI block, otherwise it is obvious they came from the very same casting core.

The two late TBI blocks I have sonic tested have the same wall thickness of my one TIII block.
I can find no positive methode for determining for SURE if a block was cast in Mexico or anywhere else for that matter, just internet conjecture.

Finally, this is just a hunch on my part, or call it opinion but I HIGHLY doubt TIII blocks were cast with anythig different Metallurgically.
take this info for what it is, Just one persons first hand testing. There are hundeds of thousands of blocks I have not tested.