Laser XE coming back

[Warren Stramer]

New cooling system routing:

Because the block is filled up to within an inch of the deck with HardBlok blocking off the coolant inlet from the pump, I just ran it into the head and back of block. Outlet is opposite end of head, and some thru the T stat housing as before.

[bakes]

So for the most part the old water pump housing outlet is just being used as mounting point now???

[Warren Stramer]

So for the most part the old water pump housing outlet is just being used as mounting point now???

Yup. That's right.

[Shadow]

Meh, the oil feed hole looks a little small to me, still, should work alright................

[DetroitTurbo]

Can you go into more detail as to why you filled the block? I have my ideas but I would like to know for sure.

[Vigo]

Well, there's really only one reason to fill a block. The question would be where the needle was on the spectrum between paranoia, an educated guess, and having actually had a smoking gun failure that this would address.

[Shadow]

Can you go into more detail as to why you filled the block? I have my ideas but I would like to know for sure.

So it will hold together at 700+WHP

[bakes]

Now i see the front of the block is drilled for coolant ports or you pinning the last open inch of the cyl bore on the thrust side?

[DetroitTurbo]

So it will hold together at 700+WHP

I know that much, lol
I wanted to know details like "the block starts to crack in this place at X cylinder pressure." or whatever. I just like the science behind this kind of stuff.

[Warren Stramer]

Can you go into more detail as to why you filled the block? I have my ideas but I would like to know for sure.

Well, there's really only one reason to fill a block. The question would be where the needle was on the spectrum between paranoia, an educated guess, and having actually had a smoking gun failure that this would address.

The primary reason for filling a block is to add stiffness to the cyl. walls, and make the whole block more solid; this keeps the cyls. round and straight for better ring seal.
Also, it greatly reduces the chances of cracking a cyl. wall, which I did on my old block.
If this block lasts as long as the last one(12 seasons,370 plus runs) I will be very happy, because this is the last one I will build( for myself anyway).

[Reaper1]

Did the wall crack on the thrust side or the other side (I can't remember).

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with some of the build that I now are happening right now to put our engines in the 600-700+hp range. I've already got ideas on how to take it to the next level, but time will tell as to whether it's needed or not.

[Shadow]

I know that much, lol
I wanted to know details like "the block starts to crack in this place at X cylinder pressure." or whatever. I just like the science behind this kind of stuff.

Just messin with ya + I wanted that "THUNDERING" factor in the answer! lol

[Vigo]

If this block lasts as long as the last one(12 seasons,370 plus runs) I will be very happy, because this is the last one I will build( for myself anyway).

To be honest, i can't see this NOT working after what you did with the last one. Of course.. you may be shooting much higher now.

[Warren Stramer]

Did the wall crack on the thrust side or the other side (I can't remember).

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with some of the build that I now are happening right now to put our engines in the 600-700+hp range. I've already got ideas on how to take it to the next level, but time will tell as to whether it's needed or not.

Cyl. #1 hairline crack on thrust side upper;

[Ondonti]

Apparently Nobody remembers Stephane losing cylinders in short order in the 600whp range but whatever. That is one thing I don't know if you guys have figured out. People obsessed for so long about hypothetical block weaknesses (common block for anything over 0.0001 hp is required) but did not actually measured real identifiable weak points and talk about it publically. I know there are weak spots on the n/a 2.4 blocks that are well known.

Stephane ran with a bit more coolant passage in the block still open if I remember right. He was only half filled @ 180mph. That said, I think he only made ~800whp and it was on methanol which probably has a very low peak combustion pressure. Someone here on race fuel (non alcohol) could make the same power and not get away with a half fill in the same style block.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote Bomb. I couldn't find what I remember but close enough. He says 550whp for a street car he would not fill the block, just 4 bolt mains but track car is obviously a different situation. BTW ALL of you guys are posting in these old threads.

Circa 2004

I cracked a few common block's around the 450hp mark

since then i've been building them with billet 4 bolt main caps and arp studs never broke one again .running same engine for 3 years now

ill just give you guy's an idea 611cfptrq at only 5600 RPM

i use long shaft set-up by Axle Systems Inc (1.34 best 60ft)never broke one

Early 2005

If making 500whp with a 2.5 8 valve was easy every body on this forum would be making that kind of power

my last 2.2 8 valve set-up did 588.9 Hp (engine dyno) and beleive me it's not an easy thing to do

there is alot of head work,custom intake,(i had )4 160lb/hr inj
custom rods,pistons
stand alone computer ,block prep and machining .......

August 2005

Thanks for your support

And also again I would like to thank Cindy at FWDperformance for they’re support on our race car and also Wallace of Lonewolf performance for they’re Camshafts.

What I like best about this season is showing everybody what a low budget
$4000.00 T-III engine can do. And how reliable these engines are. We have 9 events done so far same engine,
Almost all the other teams need 1 or 2 engines per race. Considering the fact
That we are making over 800hp at the crank with a stock head only the short block as been modified and a set of cams. If only I can get my race head done :bash:




I already had a TD sticker done for my back glass thanks anyway
but you can send me some for the pick-up

11/2005

the combination I found the best at the hp level i'm running

is copper o-rings and a cometic gasket cover with copper spray

yep I had the head machined for the o-rings the reason I did this is that it is easy to change the o-rings with the head on the work bench I change the o-rings about every 3 times I lift the head

I did 650hp on a cometic/arp studs without o-rings pass that point if you dont o-ring you better get ready to by gaskets by the box!

since I chaged to o-rings and cometic never blew a gasket

Yep had the same problem's you had that is why i now run a stock block no o-rings on the deck I had the head machined for to accept the .40 thousand of an inch copper o-rings,I let them hang out .12thousnand of an inch

Then used a cometic gasket that I copper spray on both sides torque that to
77 pound I retorque them 3 times (3 heat cycles )

28psi T-68 DBB

we are using only 3 and we are near the 1000hp mark the end caps are fine
in the testing we did we ran all the 05 season with the same bearings with only 3 main caps the same wallace is selling.

the center of the block is where the flexing occurs not at the ends

No need to de-stroke good to 11K with the 2.2 crank you will however hit the wall with the stock valve train at 9000rpm you also need custom cams
the stage 1 from Lonewolf Performance will get you up at aroung 8100rpm stage 2 will get you over 9200 rpm and stage 3 still did not fing the limit

stock crank needs to be lightened and knife edged all the rotating assembly
needs to be balanced I recommend Long connecting rods so it will lessen crank angle, stock rods will bend a bit over 450whp

No need to de-stroke good to 11K with the 2.2 crank you will however hit the wall with the stock valve train at 9000rpm you also need custom cams
the stage 1 from Lonewolf Performance will get you up at aroung 8100rpm stage 2 will get you over 9200 rpm and stage 3 still did not fing the limit

stock crank needs to be lightened and knife edged all the rotating assembly
needs to be balanced I recommend Long connecting rods so it will lessen crank angle, stock rods will bend a bit over 450whp

Stock OEM T-II oil pump with custom shim and intermediate shaft
Custom oil pick-up

never had a problem with this set-up since then .

I use a stock T-II intermediate shaft

exact I use the stock crank and used Wiseco pistons with a taller pin height to allow a longer rod

I filled the water passage around the cylinder up to 11/2inch from the deck

dont forget I use my own custom cooling systems i do not use the OEM water pump the pump location is filled

I do not want to start a debate about what piston is better but whit my experience on a 2.2 I have never had a single problem with a wiseco pistons
street cars or race cars
and I have 7 broken JE's on the shelf and the engine seized 2 times with the je's

we ran all season on the same set of pistons same rings same pins all like new just to give you an idea i'm not even rebuilding the engine for next season bearings are perfect and so are the rods and pistons lets see how long it will go
i'm just preparing a complete spare
dont forget the advantage of using a custom pistons is you can design them the way you want with the rings where you want them

under 550whp if I was building the engine I would use the 4 bolts main caps only for street use

Long connecting rods are used as part of a whole combination of engine changes designed for a narrow band of rpm at operating speeds that are drastically increased by cylinder heads that have been extensively modified to flow more air, at higher velocity than a standard cylinder head could ever see. You have to look at the overall picture to see the definite limited advantage gained in specific applications. The easiest route to more horsepower in any engine design is simply to turn the engine more rpm. If it can do this without being limited by mechanicals: (valve spring pressures and valve train weight and design) inlet restrictions, (filter,port and valve designs) and exhaust restrictions: ports, valves and exhaust system. Then the longer connecting rod gives more piston dwell at top dead center, and at bottom dead center. The advantage at top dead center is that ignition timing can be retarded because the increased long rod piston dwell gives more time for the mixture to be burned more completely in a smaller combustion chamber volume, closer to top dead center. This means the burning mixture has to work less against itself and the still rising piston on the compression stroke because the ignition fires before top dead center. The increased piston dwell at bottom dead center allows for increased overlap and more time for cylinder filing with fresh mixture to be compressed for yet more power. This long rod advantage is only useful in an engine that operates at an increased redline, wide open throttle, and that drops a thousand rpm or so when shifted through the gears, mostly in drag race applications. Increasing rod angle, via stroking or offset wrist pins is very desirable.

Source
Bob Bertaut

Couldn't explain it Better

as for the crowers I'm not sure if they carry them now i think they are still a custom order

here is a link you may find interesting about engine knock
http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/PICS/detonation/detonation.html

exactly
Changing rod length only changes where stroke occurs in cylinder bore not the length of the stroke

The longer the rod the higher the R/S ratio (rod/stroke) the less intake runner volume the engine requires. This is significant with lower flowing cylinder head
Less rod angle also means the long rod maintains a straighter push on the connecting rod for a longer time period than a shorter rod. Pushing in a straighter line transfers energy more efficiently.
Compared to a short rod motor the long-rod motor dwells longer at and decelerates and accelerates slower from, the vicinity of TDC. This has the effect of cutting both average and peak piston speeds, which permits the valves more time to fill and exhaust the cylinder.

2.5 as a 1.50 R/S
2.2 as a 1.65 R/S
I have 1.75 R/S

just to give you an idea a ferrari F-1 as a 2.20 R/S [and a 3.0 6g72 is 1.82 -Ondonti]

I have no idea at the begining of the season I made 477WHP at 8075rpm at 13 psi of boost
couldnt go higher on boost the tires would just light up

with the new head new cams not dialed in we made over 840whp at the track
i'm taking the engine out of the car in a couple of weeks and we are putting it on the engine dyno to dial the cams and fine tune the new valve train

I'll post the numbers after

[cordes]

Those were some interesting quotes. Thanks for taking the time to dig them up.

[glhs875]

I don't agree with all the long rod comments. One I disagree with is, a longer rod does increase dwell time at TDC but not at BDC as well.

[GLHNSLHT2]

It's a mathmatical fact that if the dwell time is longer at TDC then it's going to be longer at BDC as well.

[glhs875]

It's a mathmatical fact that if the dwell time is longer at TDC then it's going to be longer at BDC as well.

I disagree. The longer rod,causes longer dwell time at TDC but has a shorter dwell time at BDC. The shorter rod, causes shorter dwell time at TDC but has a longer dwell time at BDC. Unless the articles I have researched pertaining to this subject are all wrong! And it is many! There is only a set amount of crankshaft degrees to work with!

[Ondonti]

Those were some interesting quotes. Thanks for taking the time to dig them up.

And I guess it was 1.5" fill from the top.

I also didn't post up a quote from C&D motorsports that seems to be a guy named Dennis who worked for SMP then moved to Cox or someone else's "Mopar" race car team sharing all those secrets. Of course I have since found that A.J. Berg is the guy behind all the 31te developments and just failed to get them patented before everyone seemed to have his build info (which Frenchie seemed to have legitimate use of), possibly leaked by disgruntled person looking for employment etc.
Anyways, C&D Motorsports claims that the year Frenchie went 180mph (not backed up) he was having constant motor and transmission failures, unlike the previous year where he ran lower boost and the same motor all year looked great upon dissasembly. So to me, there was something wrong with the motor and I now finally believe the reason Frenchie did not run 50psi on his 72mm turbo was because he could not. Same with nitrous. He was at some sort of brick wall that he did not solve. There is probably not much time during a semi pro racing season to sit down and figure things out. He was basically out of the game after that season so this was not resolved.
A lot of 'our' guys including myself were backing up frenchie about running well on low boost and being able to do more but thinking critically now I feel this bragging was unjustified.

I would assume he was using common blocks.