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Thread: Laser XE coming back

  1. #741
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Of course any one of us who has ever spent 40 or 50 hours hunched over a cylinder head with a spot lamp and a collection of porting tools, would certainly *like* to know some numbers from artistry like yours Warren. Of course, I would never be so brash as to ask. Reaper...
    Well, that's why I said if he's willing to share. If he's not, I totally understand and will never hold it against him. I do seem to remember a while back, at least for one of his heads, he stated he didn't really know what it flowed, he just did what worked to make him faster. Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Common guys, Warren already answered this; Enough flow to make 700+WHP from a GTX3582R. You Should be able to figure out the rest.....no?

    BTW, that's the same head he showed before when he was still running the 50 trim, surprising that your only taking notice now? lol
    LOL...you know as well as the rest of us that if you can make enough pressure to shove air into an engine, then you can still make power. I know that his goal is to do it as efficiently as possible. The turbo size really doesn't surprise me for his power goal as it is the same size I was/am looking at for my build.

    His work is so amazing that honestly, I wouldn't put it past him to do another, even though a while back I think I remember him saying that the one he showed us then was his "last one"....kinda like Ozzy tours...they are always the "last" one! LOL

  2. #742
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    I can't help you with that Buddy
    I showed the engine builders and mechanics at my work your engine and some older engine-bay shots today, they thought it was one of the baddest 4-cyl, or any size engine, they have ever seen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    His work is so amazing that honestly, I wouldn't put it past him to do another, even though a while back I think I remember him saying that the one he showed us then was his "last one"....kinda like Ozzy tours...they are always the "last" one! LOL
    Saw Ozzy and Zombie back in 2007, it was awesome! Ozzy actually sounded lively on stage, and he blasted the crowd with foam that glowed in black light and he was running around the whole time.

  3. #743

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by lengel View Post
    Every time I check your thread out it makes me feel like a total hack! Amazing work!
    Oh cut it out, I've seen your stuff, You Sir are no hack!
    Last edited by Warren Stramer; 03-06-2014 at 05:05 PM.
    Worlds fastest 8 Valve 6.2 sec., 119.70 1/8, Best MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.73 sec.,144.26mph. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  4. #744

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by bakes View Post
    Warren did you use lash cap with your cam and if so which one ?
    Yes, I use lash caps from a 2.0L Ford. I think I sourced them from Manley.
    Last edited by Warren Stramer; 03-06-2014 at 05:05 PM.
    Worlds fastest 8 Valve 6.2 sec., 119.70 1/8, Best MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.73 sec.,144.26mph. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  5. #745

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    Well, that's why I said if he's willing to share. If he's not, I totally understand and will never hold it against him. I do seem to remember a while back, at least for one of his heads, he stated he didn't really know what it flowed, he just did what worked to make him faster. Fair enough.



    LOL...you know as well as the rest of us that if you can make enough pressure to shove air into an engine, then you can still make power. I know that his goal is to do it as efficiently as possible. The turbo size really doesn't surprise me for his power goal as it is the same size I was/am looking at for my build.

    His work is so amazing that honestly, I wouldn't put it past him to do another, even though a while back I think I remember him saying that the one he showed us then was his "last one"....kinda like Ozzy tours...they are always the "last" one! LOL
    About posting flow numbers; I have not for a number of reasons, For one, I could do like some (not referring to anyone in particular) and post made-up numbers that makes me look like a porting god. Or, If I posted the actual numbers and they were Lower, or higher than expected some might mistake the data for a model to avoid, or the benchmark for all other 8 valves to copy, and it is neither.
    You could make one of these intake ports flow like a sewer pipe on the flow bench, but make less power on the track than with a properly sized and shaped port-seat-chamber.
    In my opinion (My opinions are only good for about 90 days) comparing flow bench numbers are nearly meaningless.
    The bench is about the last tool I use when laying out a good performing head. I am NOT saying they are useless, they definitely have their place, but they do not replicate a running engine, not even close. IC engines are not steady-state flow pumps, and the actual flow through a running engine is at a FAR HIGHER depression than anything you will achieve on a typical flow bench.

    What they are good for is determining relative flow profiles at various valve lifts, flow velocities, and flow bias, and I make good use of mine for that. Just need to understand their limitations.

    Over the years I've seen 8valve flow numbers on the forums and for example someone may have a head that flowed say, 190cfm @.500 or so on, but then they are lead to believe by 'convention' that they should run a cam that can only yield maybe .450 valve lift; They wasted their time porting for .500 because the head will never see it. They should have concentrated on flow around .450 or less. Or better yet, get a cam that opens the valves to at least .500.

    My point is, take the flow bench numbers you read with a grain of salt. There are more important aspects to a powerful cyl. head.
    Last edited by Warren Stramer; 03-07-2014 at 05:56 PM.
    Worlds fastest 8 Valve 6.2 sec., 119.70 1/8, Best MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.73 sec.,144.26mph. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  6. #746
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Well put Warren!

  7. #747
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Ill take a 90 day warranty, er opinion any day

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  8. #748
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    About posting flow numbers; I have not for a number of reasons, For one, I could do like some (not referring to anyone in particular) and post made-up numbers that makes me look like a porting god. Or, If I posted the actual numbers and they were Lower, or higher than expected some might mistake the data for a model to avoid, or the benchmark for all other 8 valves to copy, and it is neither.
    You could make one of these intake ports flow like a sewer pipe on the flow bench, but make less power on the track than with a properly sized and shaped port-seat-chamber.
    In my opinion (My opinions are only good for about 90 days) comparing flow bench numbers are nearly meaningless.
    The bench is about the last tool I use when laying out a good performing head. I am NOT saying they are useless, they definitely have their place, but they do not replicate a running engine, not even close. IC engines are not steady-state flow pumps, and the actual flow through an engine is at a FAR HIGHER depression than anything you will achieve on a typical flow bench.

    What they are good for is determining relative flow profiles at various valve lifts, flow velocities, and flow bias, and I make good use of mine for that. Just need to understand their limitations.

    Over the years I've seen 8valve flow numbers on the forums and for example someone may have a head that flowed say, 190cfm @.500 or so on, but then they are lead to believe by 'convention' that they should run a cam that can only yield maybe .450 valve lift; They wasted their time porting for .500 because the head will never see it. They should have concentrated on flow around .450 or less. Or better yet, get a cam that opens the valves to at least .500.

    My point is, take the flow bench numbers you read with a grain of salt. There are more important aspects to a powerful cyl. head.
    This was going to be my first answer as well, but I didn't want to be accused of putting words into anyone's mouth.

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  9. #749
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    About posting flow numbers; I have not for a number of reasons, For one, I could do like some (not referring to anyone in particular) and post made-up numbers that makes me look like a porting god. Or, If I posted the actual numbers and they were Lower, or higher than expected some might mistake the data for a model to avoid, or the benchmark for all other 8 valves to copy, and it is neither.
    You could make one of these intake ports flow like a sewer pipe on the flow bench, but make less power on the track than with a properly sized and shaped port-seat-chamber.
    In my opinion (My opinions are only good for about 90 days) comparing flow bench numbers are nearly meaningless.
    The bench is about the last tool I use when laying out a good performing head. I am NOT saying they are useless, they definitely have their place, but they do not replicate a running engine, not even close. IC engines are not steady-state flow pumps, and the actual flow through an engine is at a FAR HIGHER depression than anything you will achieve on a typical flow bench.

    What they are good for is determining relative flow profiles at various valve lifts, flow velocities, and flow bias, and I make good use of mine for that. Just need to understand their limitations.

    Over the years I've seen 8valve flow numbers on the forums and for example someone may have a head that flowed say, 190cfm @.500 or so on, but then they are lead to believe by 'convention' that they should run a cam that can only yield maybe .450 valve lift; They wasted their time porting for .500 because the head will never see it. They should have concentrated on flow around .450 or less. Or better yet, get a cam that opens the valves to at least .500.

    My point is, take the flow bench numbers you read with a grain of salt. There are more important aspects to a powerful cyl. head.
    Well said! I'll have to read this to the cylinder head guy at my work, this is almost word for word what he told me when I brought him my head. He did my head for a .470/.467 cam since I will be using the F-4 cam from Cindy.

  10. #750

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    About posting flow numbers; I have not for a number of reasons, For one, I could do like some (not referring to anyone in particular) and post made-up numbers that makes me look like a porting god. .....
    I'm going to address the obvious here. Warren, you in NO WAY could post made up numbers because you are too honest for that. I've met Warren as many of you have and it is not in him to do such a thing. I'd LOVE to see you try and purposefully lie on this forum.....go on, do it. hehe


    Warren, plans to attend SDAC this year? About as close as it will get to the Dakotas!
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  11. #751
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by minigts View Post
    I'm going to address the obvious here. Warren, you in NO WAY could post made up numbers because you are too honest for that. I've met Warren as many of you have and it is not in him to do such a thing. I'd LOVE to see you try and purposefully lie on this forum.....go on, do it. hehe
    While I couldn't agree more with what your saying, I think Warren's point is somewhat similar to the Dyno vs real world MPH debate over Real HP. Flowing a head on a bench is Very limited in what it can do to Replicate what is Really going to happen when that head is on a running mtr @ WOT going down the track.

    So those who choose to over-use a flow bench as an end all be all for what the final result will be, will most likely end up with a "limited" build as opposed to someone who takes All Other aspects of the head work, proper cross section and port shape for cam and RPM of mtr ect into account. (ie. the mechanical and mathematical side of the build)

    Not to mention, like Dyno's, flow benches are hardly equal, so your always going to be dealing with inaccurate #'s one way or the other when compared to a different bench. (again, just like Dyno's)

    Kind of like when the internet goes "ohhhhh, ahhhh" and "Googooo Gaga" over Dyno #'s, when we should All know by now that the Real Lie detector is the MPH at the end of the track! (this is also why I no longer post Dyno #'s, even when it makes the Charger look good )

    Robert Mclellan
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  12. #752

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    While I couldn't agree more with what your saying, I think Warren's point is somewhat similar to the Dyno vs real world MPH debate over Real HP. Flowing a head on a bench is Very limited in what it can do to Replicate what is Really going to happen when that head is on a running mtr @ WOT going down the track.

    So those who choose to over-use a flow bench as an end all be all for what the final result will be, will most likely end up with a "limited" build as opposed to someone who takes All Other aspects of the head work, proper cross section and port shape for cam and RPM of mtr ect into account. (ie. the mechanical and mathematical side of the build)

    Not to mention, like Dyno's, flow benches are hardly equal, so your always going to be dealing with inaccurate #'s one way or the other when compared to a different bench. (again, just like Dyno's)

    Kind of like when the internet goes "ohhhhh, ahhhh" and "Googooo Gaga" over Dyno #'s, when we should All know by now that the Real Lie detector is the MPH at the end of the track! (this is also why I no longer post Dyno #'s, even when it makes the Charger look good )
    My point was specific about Warren's hypothetical situation of him being dishonest. I would say the same about you too Rob.
    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  13. #753
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by minigts View Post
    My point was specific about Warren's hypothetical situation of him being dishonest. I would say the same about you too Rob.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence, it's appreciated. I Should have split my answer better, as I ment to agree with you and then put my .02$ in and didn't mean for the two separate comments to meld together. Sorry bout that, as I knew that nothing you were saying had anything to do with the point I was making, just that I completely agreed with your assesment of Warren (hope that made sense)

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  14. #754
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    the craftsmanship is remarkable on your car. which leads me into my question. i'm interested in how you made some of the custom brackets/shields. i posted a couple pics of yours and circled the brackets of interest. are these brackets bent (if so how) or cut and welded or machined? also, how did you do the large aluminum motor mount bracket? do you have a cnc mill? i assume you used a large metal break to make the aluminum upper grill shroud or whatever you call it?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    warren - btw - do you ever make it down to pierre (oahe speedway)? i'ld like to see your car run some time.
    Last edited by wowzer; 03-07-2014 at 10:34 PM.
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  15. #755
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Warren, Rob, Jon, believe me when I say that I understand all of the points stated. I preach all of those points and have for a long time. I just like to know rough comparisons.

    Flow benches are just like dyno's. They are a tool. All of them are different and just because a head flows "x" absolutely gives no real indication on how it will perform on an engine. I also agree with superfluous flow numbers beyond the intended valve lift. It makes no sense.

    Anyway, my point I am trying to make is that I agree with what you guys have said, I was just curious.

    Back to showing the totally epic build! I absolutely LOVE drooling over what can arguably called art.

  16. #756
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Well numbers beyond your valve lift have value, they are just not something a person should brag about as a number alone. There is information but not necessarily performance to be had with that number depending on the setup.

    I don't want to have to read for the next 5 years a bunch of people saying "per warren, you need to throw all that stuff away because he posted a flowbench one time and he must be the man to copy even though I am building a 250hp setup and I can't rev past 5500."

    Experienced head porters who actually use flow benches and measure velocity etc will get a lot of information from the numbers they record and even if the CFMs are lower they might know that because of better velocity #'s with a certain setup, power will be better. Just posting up numbers leaves up a lot of interpretation. I have also seen how these things are calibrated and its...sketchy. For my personal use I like seeing before and after, but I would not worry about how my numbers stacked up vs a different flowbench. Easier to prove it on the track. Stephane really only seemed to worry about massive ports. I don't think he had to worry about poor low rpm performance.

    Remember that people obsess about using a certain in/hg when that really only applies to n/a cars and only the intake valve side and as Warren stated, valves open and close and the speed at which that happens changes. I have seem some brilliant people say that "valves move so fast the air never stops" Well I guess it just keeps going through the valves even though they are closed more then 50% of the time? :P
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  17. #757

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    the craftsmanship is remarkable on your car. which leads me into my question. i'm interested in how you made some of the custom brackets/shields. i posted a couple pics of yours and circled the brackets of interest. are these brackets bent (if so how) or cut and welded or machined? also, how did you do the large aluminum motor mount bracket? do you have a cnc mill? i assume you used a large metal break to make the aluminum upper grill shroud or whatever you call it?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    warren - btw - do you ever make it down to pierre (oahe speedway)? i'ld like to see your car run some time.
    Thanks Wowzer, and yes ,you could call Oahe Speedway my home track. It is the closest track to my shop, and for some reason I have good luck there.......(See shameless plug below)

    The guy with me in the photos is Milt Morris, the track owner, A super good guy. If you like I could contact you next time I plan to be there and we could meet up.

    As for the fabrication of the motor plate and brackets, I do build them in my shop. The front center motor mount is the 84 factory piece that I just drilled out and lightened with a hole saw. The other red mount bolted to the motor plate I made and tig welded from plate steel.
    The aluminum motor plate, I made a cardboard pattern and had my friend cut it out of aluminum on his water jet cutter then I finish machined it in my shop. I do not have CNC, I machine everything the old fashion way, manually.
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    Last edited by Warren Stramer; 03-08-2014 at 01:23 PM.
    Worlds fastest 8 Valve 6.2 sec., 119.70 1/8, Best MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.73 sec.,144.26mph. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  18. #758
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    thx warren - i've met/seen milt at a few car shows in rapid city, at least said hi. lmk when you are traveling to pierre. even tho it's about a 3hr drive from here me and another buddy have been meaning to get there for a couple years now. having someone to watch may be the incentive i need. just pm me when you think you'll be there.
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  19. #759

    Re: Laser XE coming back

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    thx warren - i've met/seen milt at a few car shows in rapid city, at least said hi. lmk when you are traveling to pierre. even tho it's about a 3hr drive from here me and another buddy have been meaning to get there for a couple years now. having someone to watch may be the incentive i need. just pm me when you think you'll be there.
    Will do. I will be testing this new mill there, or in Fargo.
    Worlds fastest 8 Valve 6.2 sec., 119.70 1/8, Best MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.73 sec.,144.26mph. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  20. #760
    ...on your color TV screen... Turbo Mopar Contributor Reeves's Avatar
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    Re: Laser XE coming back

    SDAC or bust!

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