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Thread: Turbonator T3

  1. #1
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Turbonator T3

    Turbonator T3 (SBEC-I and II) Codebases

    Features:

    1) Knock Indicator – This feature flashes the ‘Check Engine’ lamp whenever the timing is being retarded due to knock. It’s a useful feature to feedback to the driver when you should back off to save your engine.

    2) Switchable boost – This allows a ‘LOW’ boost setting to be used when a switch is applied. Unfortunately, it must be one of the existing inputs to the SMEC (Cruise, A/C, P/N switch, etc.). But, these can be ‘doubled up’ – IE, you can have the cruise on/off switch work for both hi/lo boost as well as cruise. This is similar in operation to the S60 boost switch feature, though without the timing adjustment for low octane fuel.

    3) Staging Limiter (2-Step) – This feature allows a lower than normal rev limit to be set. This lower limit can be enabled by a low speed cutoff (usually 2-10mph), and/or a switch (usually the brake switch for auto cars). The lower rev limit is useful for launching the car in a drag race.


    5/17/12 - T-T3 v1.3 Now Posted:
    Compatible with MP Tuner 2 (only - MAP scaling is not supported by MP Tuner 1)

    - Updated the template to the new grouping
    - Fixed a couple of table scale issues
    - Added MP Scan data to RAM for simple setup
    - Updated the pre-built 3-bar cal with corrected low-MAP range fuelling - AND - corrected lo-map scaling for +40's...



    5/14/11 - T-T3 v1.2 for SBECII T3's (1992-93)now posted:
    Compatible with MP Tuner 2 (only - MAP scaling is not supported by MP Tuner 1)

    Update Posted 07/23/12 - Fixed an issue with the staging limiter code that would cause total fuel shutdown when the rev limit was reached.
    Update Posted 12/14/12 - Updated some code definitions, and many updates to the 3-bar +40 per-built cal.




    Same changes as above.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by ShelGame; 12-14-2012 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Updated 3-bar cals...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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  2. #2
    turbo addict Pat's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Awesome. How soon do you think?

    Thanks for doing all of this. I've been lurking/reading and tinkering for a bit now to learn. I'm excited to see where this goes.

    Pat

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    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Nice, I'm definitely interested in poking around in the code (so prepare for a barrage of "I don't get this" emails ) Will this be for all T3 ecus or just the SBEC-I based ones? I assume the templates will allow arbitrary map and injector scaling like your other cals do?

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Coming soon! This is just a teaser thread.

    I have just about finished the dis-assembly of the T3 cal.
    is this for a sbec1 or sbec2

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    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanman²'s Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Once again Rob,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    The wheels of my mind are spinning....

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  7. #7
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    Awesome. How soon do you think?

    Thanks for doing all of this. I've been lurking/reading and tinkering for a bit now to learn. I'm excited to see where this goes.

    Pat
    Honestly, it's about a weeks worth of work. But it'll take me a month at least to it, and that's assuming I don't get a SDAC rush for cals...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
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  8. #8
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by risen View Post
    Nice, I'm definitely interested in poking around in the code (so prepare for a barrage of "I don't get this" emails ) Will this be for all T3 ecus or just the SBEC-I based ones? I assume the templates will allow arbitrary map and injector scaling like your other cals do?
    Yes and no. It will but that's where the tuning isue will come into play. With the 2D cals, you can cale for 3-bar and everything will run as normal up to the 'old' 2-bar settings. You, of course, have to tune over 2-bar for timing and boost.

    With the 3D cals, scaling for 3-bar will scale the input tables to the 3D tables. But, it won't automatically re-scale the 3D tables. So, when scaling the T3 for 3-bar, it will require the 3D tables be re-worked in boost. Not a huge deal, but slightly more work than simply hitting a button in MP Tuner. I'm thinking if there's a way to make the process easier...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
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  9. #9
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    is this for a sbec1 or sbec2
    SBEC-I, I haven't started into the SBEC-II T3 code much. From what I've seen, it should be pretty easy to do. Eventhoug the code is different, the tables are almost all the same. It should be pretty easy to figure out.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
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  10. #10
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    I'm thinking if there's a way to make the process easier...
    im thinking that doing all the scaling once and making individual templates for 2, 3 and 4 bar would be the easiest for the long term.

    im thinking that doing all the scaling for both 2.2L and 2.5L beforehand and making an individual template would making things less painful as well.

    and if you are getting fancy, doing injector scaling templates for stock, +40's, 72lb, 75lb, 83lb, 95lb and 120lb would make it easier. (screw +20's...go big or go home )

    i know its a fair amount of work now but i think it will make things simpler for you in the future.

    you could farm out some of the tedious work to us if you are super overwhelmed.

    Brian

  11. #11
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    I hadn't even thought about scaling for injectors. I think that should be pretty straight forward - much like the 2D cals, but I haven't really looked into it yet. Not sure how MP Tuner will deal with scaling the 3D tables for injectors...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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  12. #12
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    I hadn't even thought about scaling for injectors. I think that should be pretty straight forward - much like the 2D cals, but I haven't really looked into it yet. Not sure how MP Tuner will deal with scaling the 3D tables for injectors...
    should be pretty straight forward since the injectors should be simply a math calculation, although i don't understand what the "units" are in the t3 3d fuel tables. is that a percentage or a fixed constant? if you can let me know i'll start making the programming updates.

    i think the problem will be changing map resolutions, e.g. 2 bar to 3 bar. either we need to add "rows" to the 3d table on the fly to keep the same resolution or move the rows around to try to make it work.

    suggestions?

  13. #13
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    should be pretty straight forward since the injectors should be simply a math calculation, although i don't understand what the "units" are in the t3 3d fuel tables. is that a percentage or a fixed constant? if you can let me know i'll start making the programming updates.

    i think the problem will be changing map resolutions, e.g. 2 bar to 3 bar. either we need to add "rows" to the 3d table on the fly to keep the same resolution or move the rows around to try to make it work.

    suggestions?
    I went thru the 3D PW tables once before and I think I figured it out. But, I need to go thru it again to make sure.

    I don't know about adding rows. Each row adds quite a bit of data. If we add rows to eacc 3D tables, we'd need a lot of additional data storage space. On the other hand, you don't necessarily need such high resolution in the 'middle' boost range - since you'll basically be 'just passing thru' those ranges as the turbo spools up. Anyway, it needs some thought.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
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  14. #14
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    how bad would linearizing those tables be. i know all the points would need to be rescaled so that they act like stock, but do that once and the other scaling operations would be easier would it not?

    Brian

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    how bad would linearizing those tables be. i know all the points would need to be rescaled so that they act like stock, but do that once and the other scaling operations would be easier would it not?

    Brian
    linearizing?!?! nice word - what do u mean exactly

    in the sbec2 code i've looked at there is ALOT of unused space in the table regions as well as being able to move the code up higher in the address space. the 3d code does allow the program to go directly to a cell for a value versus working its way up the "ladder" to find the right slope area like in a 2d table.

    e.g. if a 1 bar 3d table uses 17 rows by 9 columns (153 bytes - need the extra row for interpolation), adding another "bar" should only take another 16 rows by 9 columns (144 bytes). problem is (potentially), the routine i think is limited to accessing only 255 bytes without a modification to the routine.

  16. #16
    boostaholic Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Well, I guess I'll toss my .02 in on this 3d scaling thing. What about having the ASM having one *large* (64x9) table with values from 30in hg to +42 psi in every cell, with good resolution. Then you can have mptuner either copy the table in as the 1st 17 rows (two bar), every other row up to 17 total (three bar), or every 3rd row up to 17 total rows (four bar). That would also let you do the funny fractional bar map sensors. I know it seems like a lot of work, but it would seem to be the most flexible approach. And if someone wanted 5/6 bar (if such a beast even exists) you could just add the rows to the ASM and not have an effect on anything else, then mptuner would have to stride by (bar - 1) rows to build the cal.

  17. #17
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    linearizing?!?!
    meaning....

    the redefine the low map and high map ranges so they are scaled linearly from -14.7psi to 29.4psi for a 3-bar and -14.7 to 44.1psi for 4 bar.

    so the low map and high map range will be different from stock and ALL of the values will need to be rescaled so that the stock -14.7psi to 14.7psi range is fairly accurate to stock values.

    low map and high map ranges will also be different for a 3-bar and a 4bar application.

    the other thing that could be reasonable to do if the map range is made fully linear over lowmap and highmap, is that both maps could be then shown on the same table screen side by side for ease in tuning.

    i could care less about increased resolution for emissions reasons. ease in tuning would be much nicer.

    brian

  18. #18
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor iTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Would love to have a SBEC-I 2.5L TIII cal soon. Considering the gasoline available around here, running the motor on a stock TIII cal is going to be asking for a lot of problems..

  19. #19
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    any updates?

  20. #20
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: Turbonator T3

    Morris made a test version of MP tuner for me to try and scale a T3 cal with. I've been working on a major revision to T-LM, so I haven't teted it yet. It's next on the list...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

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