Finally maybe an equal length header?!

[LynX853]

http://www.sacramento-mustang.com/cg...vo.dat|exhaust

yeah its expensive, but they have close to the same dimentions and space issues that we do... and now that FWD sells the flange kits, i say cut the ford flanges on, and on with the TD ones. or if you want to, you can run a turbocharger for a turbo ford... heck you can get hybrids for those things DIRT cheep! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4...71236510QQrdZ1

like SO! i know that your gonna say its expenisve (the header) but it IS really well designed and you gotta pay to play. if it was up to me and i had to start all over again, id get a ford hybrid turbo, and that header.

im just trying to think outside the box here. LMK what you guys think

[WVRampage]

Well its not a equal length but it does look like a Idea for a header and clearence issues.

[BadAssPerformance]

Nice header, but it looks like it might have some intake manifold clearance issues.

[Whorse]

Is the spacing close enough between the two engines' head ports?

[turbovanman²]

I guess the obvious hasn't been stated, the header flange is totally wrong. Stephane made some of those for around the same price but everyone bitched and no one bought any. That turbo you linked to is junk, figure on it lasting 1-2 weeks, if your lucky.

[LynX853]

ok, like i stated before, you would have to cut the old flanges off and weld TD ones on... (FWD now offers them) I didnt realize that those turbos were bad

[LynX853]

and if that header doesnt work, do a search on svo 2.3 turbo headers on google. some have different designs ect.

[Clay]

why is the turbo junk?

[puppet]

The more you read about equal length headers and turbocharged engines the more it seems not to matter until your making huge HP. There are some better log designs out there that for 90% of us would be more than enough. A product like this is where it's at.
http://www.revhard.com/turbomanifold...2TurboManifold
Check out "H22 Turbo Manifold" on that page. Something like that might be pretty damn good for us.

The space problems, the additional effort and cash involved in making equal length work for the little gain doesn't seem worth it to me.

[BadAssPerformance]

The more you read about equal length headers and turbocharged engines the more it seems not to matter until your making huge HP. There are some better log designs out there that for 90% of us would be more than enough. A product like this is where it's at.

The space problems, the additional effort and cash involved in making equal length work for the little gain doesn't seem worth it to me.

I'm interested in reading about this. Got a links to any tech papers? Specifically from technical sources, not people trying to sell log type manifold headers?

[puppet]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ne&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?q=curin...S%3Aofficial_s
http://www.google.com/search?q=desig...start=170&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ne&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?q=ducte...&start=20&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=ducte...&start=80&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?client=...=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?q=fabri...S%3Aofficial_s
http://www.google.com/search?q=fabri...S%3Aofficial_s
http://www.google.com/search?q=fabri...&start=20&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=inter...&start=10&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=manag...&start=20&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=prope...&start=50&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=prope...&start=10&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=prope...S%3Aofficial_s
http://www.google.com/search?q=pulse...&start=20&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=pulse...&start=30&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ld&btnG=Search

... been a googlin' fool for a week or so.

The searches turn up many articles an .pdf's on the suject ... some junk on both sides of the debate.
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...&TopicID=77064
This was a good read. Some articles from Max Boost are online as well.
There is no doubt that the equal length is good. Just "how much" is the debate. For instance the reversion issue often brought up can be minimized with choice of cam profile. That makes the log type manifold no so bad after all.

Just the difference in the buzz words like "pulse", "pressure", "tri Y", "equal length", log", "long tube", short tube", "large cross section", "narrow cross section", "shock waves", "reversion", "heat loss", "pressure loss" .. all make for different designs schemes. All of them can work on any given engine. What sets them apart is where they produce the power. This in itself can drive a guy nuts. ... let alone tring to make it all fit.

A well designed log mani will spread the power out over a wider rpm range and scavange the exhaust fine as well. More so than a application specific equal length header. At least this is what I'm beginning to realize as it relates to "middle of the HP road" turbocharged engines.

[8valves]

As long as that statement stays for "middle of the road" setups as you put it, then I would agree. I personally agree that in strong setups an equal length is very important, and a vital part of making big power. Remember, when you get to that point a divided tang entry turbine should more than likely be used as well, so an equal length is needed to take advantage of that as well.

AM

[puppet]

As long as that statement stays for "middle of the road" setups as you put it, then I would agree. I personally agree that in strong setups an equal length is very important, and a vital part of making big power. Remember, when you get to that point a divided tang entry turbine should more than likely be used as well, so an equal length is needed to take advantage of that as well.

AM

Absolutely. Those divided inlets, combined with the right header design (like our TBI for instance), look to help some with turbo spool down low. One of the thoughts that got me to reseaching this all in the first place. After the pressure rises in the exhaust though there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they matter either. That rapid high pressure rush makes big power.
The header used to make the divided inlet work best as far as spooling is concerned, would have a smaller tube cross section. Smaller cross sectional runners can't deliver good top end power.

[8valves]

Absolutely. Those divided inlets, combined with the right header design (like our TBI for instance), look to help some with turbo spool down low. One of the thoughts that got me to reseaching this all in the first place. After the pressure rises in the exhaust though there doesn't seem to be any evidence that they matter either. That rapid high pressure rush makes big power.
The header used to make the divided inlet work best as far as spooling is concerned, would have a smaller tube cross section. Something that would kill top end power.

With the right length employed, tube cross sectional area can be increased. Only when you get into super long tube designs like Stephane's do I think diameter becomes something to take into consideration. Out long tube top mount, equal length header for our Talon race car has somewhere between 1 5/8" and 1 7/8" tube diamter, i can't remember off the top of my head.

AM

[puppet]

With the right length employed, tube cross sectional area can be increased. Only when you get into super long tube designs like Stephane's do I think diameter becomes something to take into consideration. Out long tube top mount, equal length header for our Talon race car has somewhere between 1 5/8" and 1 7/8" tube diamter, i can't remember off the top of my head.

AM

Even so, from what I've read, your choices on length and diameter still move you into a 200-500 rpm "golden zone". A place where the engine is flowing the greatest and making the most power. Change the perameters and you move the zone.

[LynX853]

wow i had no idea that this thread would spark up such a big convo, personally I was just trying to find header pieces that could be adapted to our cars with the only fabrication being flange swap. we're not the only motors with limited space... and in my domestic mind of thinking I was looking for SVO headers... which still arnt that cheep. but now I realized from puppet that honda stuff is pretty cheep too, cause there's just so much aftermarket for em.. any more oppinions would be awesome.
i guess that just after seeing the TU results on the flow of a stock TD log and even a ported TD log... i was horrified by how bad they are flow wise. it made me go with a tbi header (ported) which almost flows twice as much.

[turbovanman²]

SMP tested his against a Log and picked up some nice power, and it would fit in a stock vehicle with no major mods. There is a Honda vid of a guy testing a log header then changing over to equal length, picked up power and reduced the lag.

why is the turbo junk?

Guess you have never seen the pics of the 2 compressor halves glued together. That turbo is the cheapest of cheap, I doubt it really even has a real bearing installed. The turbine is cheap pot metal. Most last a month or so if your lucky, push it hard and it lets go. A few members tried them for sh*ts and giggles, KABOOM!

[BadAssPerformance]

Need to see back to back dyno sheets

[puppet]

i guess that just after seeing the TU results on the flow of a stock TD log and even a ported TD log... i was horrified by how bad they are flow wise. it made me go with a tbi header (ported) which almost flows twice as much.

Flow is going to be a function of the turbo you have bolted to the end of the mani. All of them induce a degree of backpressure.

[turbovanman²]

Ok boys, heres 19 pages, happy reading-

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/sho...ghlight=header