ARP Head Stud Torque Survey! What torque have you used? What lube? Why?

[sdac guy]

Studs do get tired. I reused these several times, I could not get more than 80 ft lbs with oil with this one.

Are those ARP studs or maybe MP's? IIRC the ARP studs are the same diameter in the shank as they are in the threads. Those look like they neck down in diameter in the shank area.

Barry

[boost geek]

Those are ARP's with the undercut shanks. I have 2 sets.

[Directconnection]

You know, I was thinking.....

There really is truth to this thread being kinda useless even though it's chock full of good intentions.

Torque wrenches really do vary a LOT, as we have a make-shift torque wrench gauge at work made out of some valve springs, and a pivoting lever arm. Some torque wrenches will be off 5lbs or so.... the entire range, but most... will get worse as the ft*lbs increase.

So, especially if some are using a Sear's Crapsman wrench, or a Snap-On... I guarantee people's wrenches in posting here are at least 5 lbs off... and possibly as much as 15 from what I've seen on our shop gauge.

The snapped arp stud could be the result of a frigged up wrench needing to be calibrated, or messed up in general. My Crapsman wrench (in which I'll never use anymore... I'll borrow one from work) was acting up on me when i was ding the heads on my '96 Intrepid. I found that it wouldn't click (or it was irregular) if my hand wasn't 100% on the handle. If it was partial, it wouldn't sense the load and not click. Took me quite a while to realize what I was doing wrong....

[tinyturbo]

On my hybrid I set the torque to 86 Pd ft with oil, ive went through a few torque wrench's in my time, you can keep them alive longer by always loosening the the adjustment back to 0 when your done and never ever use them to break stuff loose, found my son breaking lug nuts loose with mine and of course it was broke the next time i used it, luckily they were torque to yield bolts and i could tell they were stretching too much, also is nice to have an old balance beam wrench to double check once in a while.

[TurboJerry]

95 ftlbs. with moly. ARP studs or ARP bolts. The stock bolts reach 95 ftlbs. after the 1/4 turn also btw. I have an Australian made torque wrench that only gets used for critical things.

[boost geek]

That broken stud was done with a new clicker wrench, so it may have been the wrench that broke the stud. I know another stud stretched which is still on the car, figured I'd leave it alone as I hardly ever beat on it.

[Directconnection]

That broken stud was done with a new clicker wrench, so it may have been the wrench that broke the stud. I know another stud stretched which is still on the car, figured I'd leave it alone as I hardly ever beat on it.

Probably was the wrench....

Where does the "click" take place? The Snap-ons we use are right at the head, but the craftsman one I have at home pivots/clicks at the handle. So, if you do what I was accidentally doing, which was having some fingers/part of my hand past the handle, it's won't read the "pull" at the handle like it's supposed to.

[Turbo3Iroc]

It's also good maintenance to store your torque wrench at the lowest setting. Keeping it cranked up will lessen its accuracy over time.

Based on this thread I just went with 85 lbs and moly lube. Cometic gasket installed dry. Will check after a heat cycle.

[slasky]

I usually got to 85 in a few steps with ARP moly lube. I reused mine about 8 times before they started stretching instead of getting tighter and needed to be replaced. I never re-torque them although i run a cometic gasket.

[wallace]

If you have snap-on torque wrenches they will calibrate for free. not all of the guys have the stuff on the truck so may have to make a trip. I use a click type snap-on 75 ft lbs with the moly lube for the 8 valve. The wrenches with a spring where you turn the handle to set the torque should be turned all the way down when not used as it will affect the calibration. The ones with a dial that don't twist a spring it doesn't matter. Local guy that builds a LOT of stuff will only use the old style dial type...the snap-on man comes once every week and he has them tested bi-weekly they have rarely needed calibration.

[speedfreek500]

When i bought my snap on wrech i threw it on his calibrater and it was 5 pounds off at new, i was WTF Gord.... He gave me a new on the spot and we checked it and was on the money.

I went 95pounds with moly lube on arp studs.

[trannybuster]

Measuring the amount of stretch is the best method...tho not nearly as easy as tq wrench(not possible with blind hole). I actually like the old style dial setup. I use the ARP lube, tq to 95 and re-torque after thermal cycle and have found they need a smidge more to reach desired tq, especially with Felpro hg. Anyhow retorque is easy enough and the plus is you re-check your work.

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 PM ----------

BTW I tried and differnt lube and had four studs yield, the lube was actually for our Superbolts here at work. Use what they recommend.

---------- Post added at 08:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:09 PM ----------

http://arp-bolts.com/pages/technical_installation.shtml

[supercrackerbox]

85lb.ft. with the ARP lube. Never retorqued. Gasket is a Mopar Performance 006 with one of the Felpro copper shims, both coated with Permatex copper gasket spray. Highest boost it's seen is 17psi, but it's been running for 4 years now.

Interesting side note- when I picked up my bottom end from the machine shop this week, the machinist was adamant that I torque the rod bolts to 50lb.ft. using 30wt., NOT the ARP stuff. He's one of the most highly regarded engine builders in the state, so I'm gonna trust him.

[Directconnection]

Interesting side note- when I picked up my bottom end from the machine shop this week, the machinist was adamant that I torque the rod bolts to 50lb.ft. using 30wt., NOT the ARP stuff. He's one of the most highly regarded engine builders in the state, so I'm gonna trust him.

The good shop recognize that the moly lube doesn't repeat all too well, (if you measure stretch) and especially so if you have any honing oil come in contact. CMD#3 or straight 30wt oil works.

But the reason for using CMD or 30wt oil isn't about what's best for the bolt "preload-wise" it because it's what they used to machine/hone at the time. If someone re-sizes your rods using 30wt oil, and you refuse to follow their instructions, and use moly at the same torque, then you are over-torquing your bolts and causing a possible failure issue.

50lbs with oil is like 40lbs with moly. 50lbs with oil will be like .0050 stretch, but 50lbs with moly will be like .0065 stretch (just out of spec on some bolts) and would be like torquing to 60lbs with oil. And in return of a bolt pre-load issue, the housing bore will be a bit out of round and too tight now. I've tried explaining this 100's of times to one individual on here that refuses to understand

[trannybuster]

I to use the copper spray...for insurance purposes...

85lb.ft. with the ARP lube. Never retorqued. Gasket is a Mopar Performance 006 with one of the Felpro copper shims, both coated with Permatex copper gasket spray. Highest boost it's seen is 17psi, but it's been running for 4 years now.

Interesting side note- when I picked up my bottom end from the machine shop this week, the machinist was adamant that I torque the rod bolts to 50lb.ft. using 30wt., NOT the ARP stuff. He's one of the most highly regarded engine builders in the state, so I'm gonna trust him.

[spork]

As for the craftsman torque wrenches, never had a problem. I have 2- 1/2 drives and 1- 3/8 drive and they get tested and calibrated if needed every year. So far they've never needed calibrated. We have a guy that comes to our dealership and tests and gives printouts of our torque wrenched once a year.

[supercrackerbox]

The good shop recognize that the moly lube doesn't repeat all too well, (if you measure stretch) and especially so if you have any honing oil come in contact. CMD#3 or straight 30wt oil works.

But the reason for using CMD or 30wt oil isn't about what's best for the bolt "preload-wise" it because it's what they used to machine/hone at the time. If someone re-sizes your rods using 30wt oil, and you refuse to follow their instructions, and use moly at the same torque, then you are over-torquing your bolts and causing a possible failure issue.

50lbs with oil is like 40lbs with moly. 50lbs with oil will be like .0050 stretch, but 50lbs with moly will be like .0065 stretch (just out of spec on some bolts) and would be like torquing to 60lbs with oil. And in return of a bolt pre-load issue, the housing bore will be a bit out of round and too tight now. I've tried explaining this 100's of times to one individual on here that refuses to understand

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

[black86glhs]

I sent out a survey to as amany ARP studs as I could. I never got any responses. Sorry I can't help.

[Directconnection]

I sent out a survey to as amany ARP studs as I could. I never got any responses. Sorry I can't help.

You lost me there..... maybe you meant to write: "AARP studs"

[Shadowv4l]

stock gasket, 100ftlbs with moly lube and no heat cycle check. 20lbs of boost and almost a year later no issues to report.