A413 Strength

[TheCanadian007]

Hey guys for my up and coming Turbo build, I was planning on using a Turbo spec A413 Torqueflite tranny from an '88 Lebaron. I've purchased the Shift Improver kit for it, along with the Sonnax HD rear band strut and a solid Neon diff pin + retainers. I shall also remove and block the accumulator and raise line pressure slightly, along with a large transmission cooler.

Upon cracking the case open and peering inside the filter it seems the transmission was abused sometime during its life (fluid was brown and the filter was full of fine metal powder). In addition, the input shaft showed some endplay.

This being the case, I was advised that it's time to do a rebuild but I don't have the funds necessary to do so. So question time, if I install the above components, shim the bearings to set pre-load and reduce endplay, will it be good enough?

This transaxle is not a full blown racing one; it's built with the intention of being a daily driver with the occasional track use. The transaxle was bench tested with air and shown to operate fine. Will cleaning it out and installing the above be good enough for use on 14psi, street tires, or will I be forced to rebuild it / find a better candidate in the scrap yard?

Opinions? How resilient are the A413 transaxles?

Thanks!

Cheers, TheCanadian

[ATaylorRacing]

I got mine to last a LONG time by using a full manual valve body and had Coan build me a roller bearing stator in the convertor....the dust like metal in the fluid came from the stator flexing on the shaft and slowly grinding itself away. I was running 11.8s in the 1/4 using 150 hp shot of nitrous and yet still was sriving it on the street. I used axles from the 89 Omni automatic. I still have this set up in Matchbox, but with tons less power...at 75,000 miles the fluid still looked new, no burnt smell, and the magnet on the inspection cover only looked like a few days of beard growth instead of the golf ball sized ball of metal dust from the stock trannys.

35 time NHRA/IHRA Drag Race Champ
05 SRT4 / S2 / 12.87 @ 110 / DOTs
05 Mustang V6 / wifes / 15.17 @ 92 BONE stock
96 Geo Metro / 3 cyl - 1 ltr - 55 hp / 19.84 @ 66
84 Horizon / used to run 13's no power adders

[zin]

Like the man in that old commercial used to say, "pay me now, or pay me later".

I'd suggest finding a Neon with lowish miles in the JY, and transfer the "guts" to your case. It's got all the "turbo" upgrades and a better pump...

That or get a rebuild kit with steels and frictions, because it sounds like yours are toast!

Mike

[TheCanadian007]

That looks like a decent, cost-effective idea (swapping the guys from Neon to my case). Any other thoughts about running the trans as-is? Thanks!

Cheers, TheCanadian

[turbovanman²]

How are your tranny skills?

I would honestly spend another 15 mins and remove the pump and clutch's, inspect, replace as needed and take out all the slop-that is the single biggest thing to getting these to live.

The other mods you suggested are bang on but don't forget to BUY a decent converter and do the VB mods.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3180

[zin]

How are your tranny skills?

I would honestly spend another 15 mins and remove the pump and clutch's, inspect, replace as needed and take out all the slop-that is the single biggest thing to getting these to live.

The other mods you suggested are bang on but don't forget to BUY a decent converter and do the VB mods.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3180

It sounds like he's got some hard part wear that the guts swap would presumably fix, and wouldn't require him to disassemble the clutch packs, etc and the trouble that goes with that (snap rings, and such), though I agree with you, that inspecting those parts is a good idea... It just seems like he's looking for a quick, "get it done and upgrade stuff a bit if I can" kind of job...

Mike

[TheCanadian007]

The nature of my build is budget, so I can't afford to do a full rebuild, but I was planning on having it disassembled and check everything out. I was planning on flushing and reusing the stock converter and will be modifying the valvebody as per the shift kit instructions.

Most likely I shall try to grab a Neon trans and swap the guts out of it and combine the two to form a working transmission.

As aforementioned, this isn't a racing application and also this won't be the car's final transaxle; I plan on doing a manual sway some time in the future, so I don't want to blow large amounts of money on it. I'm looking for a cost effective compromise to build a working, reliable transaxle, while still being able to pull on 12-14psi of boost.

[turbovanman²]

The nature of my build is budget, so I can't afford to do a full rebuild, but I was planning on having it disassembled and check everything out. I was planning on flushing and reusing the stock converter and will be modifying the valvebody as per the shift kit instructions.

Most likely I shall try to grab a Neon trans and swap the guts out of it and combine the two to form a working transmission.

As aforementioned, this isn't a racing application and also this won't be the car's final transaxle; I plan on doing a manual sway some time in the future, so I don't want to blow large amounts of money on it. I'm looking for a cost effective compromise to build a working, reliable transaxle, while still being able to pull on 12-14psi of boost.

No such thing as cost effective with auto trans,

DON'T flush the converter, either use it as is or get another one. The Neon converter can be used if you swap the input shaft if you feel your stock converter is bad.

Clutch's are cake to rebuild and your looking at under $50 to replace them and set the clearances tighter-this way, no chance of failure or use the Neon stuff if it checks out good, but either way, I highly recommend you tighten up the clearances.

[TheCanadian007]

With regards to the play on the input shaft, what causes this? Wear on the bearings? In general, what part breaks or blows first on a FWD auto trans? Do the clutch packs shatter etc?

Why is flushing the converter a bad idea?

Appreciate the help and knowledge!

Cheers, TheCanadian

[zin]

With regards to the play on the input shaft, what causes this? Wear on the bearings? In general, what part breaks or blows first on a FWD auto trans? Do the clutch packs shatter etc?

Why is flushing the converter a bad idea?

Appreciate the help and knowledge!

Cheers, TheCanadian

I'll let Simon take this one! He's broken about everything you can, and I'm sure he remembers the order of failure! Though I'd hazard as guess that you aren't likely to actually break anything doing the mods and the boost you are talking about...

Simon... Take it away!!

Mike

[TheCanadian007]

Paging Simon, Simon please report to this thread

[turbovanman²]

I did but it didn't post?

Anyhow, the end play is a result of all the thrust washers and a selective washer, if all the washers are good, then the stock selective washer is ok, I've never used a different thickness than the standard one.

[TheCanadian007]

It seems your post never appeared! What bad happens when one flushes a torque converter?

[turbovanman²]

It seems your post never appeared! What bad happens when one flushes a torque converter?

Post 8 on that one.

[TheCanadian007]

I saw that part, lol, I meant specifically what happens inside the converter when one tries to flush it? Do the metallic particles jam up the stator and clutch etc?

[turbovanman²]

I saw that part, lol, I meant specifically what happens inside the converter when one tries to flush it? Do the metallic particles jam up the stator and clutch etc?

Yep...

[thedon809]

DON'T flush the converter, either use it as is or get another one. The Neon converter can be used if you swap the input shaft if you feel your stock converter is bad.

Would a neon TC not be lower stall than a turbo converter?

[Vigo]

They're about the same.

I agree with what Simon is saying, pretty much. The biggest thing you can do to increase the power handling of the transmission is tighten up the clutch pack clearances and then up the line pressure a lot. Actual hard parts breakage at low power levels is NOT power related and cant really be planned around. Ive broken the output shaft on these trannies with a STOCK 3.0 launching from a stop. Other trannies have no parts breakage with several hundred hp.. its a crapshoot. So worry first and foremost about the clutch packs: tight clearances and more pressure.

[TheCanadian007]

Thank-you, Simon and Vigo and all else who posted. I'll tear the tranny apart and see what I'm dealing with, tighten the clutch packs as necessary etc. Post back if I have any issues.

Cheers, TheCanadian

[TheCanadian007]

Added thought, with the removal of the accumulator AND the installation of a shift kit, would that cause the shifts to become too tight or jarring (bearing in mind the daily driver nature of this application)? Thoughts on doing both?