2.4 trans question

[Turbo224]

I am contemplating a 2.4 swap into my glhs with an entire 2.4 engine/trans from a SRT4, but I understand the srt trans is hydralic. Is the trans bolt pattern on an srt trans different than other 2.4 trans like the 523? I have a 568 with cables and shifter that I have been saving for the glhs that I know can be modified to work with a 2.4, but if I can just find a non hydralic trans that fits with no modification then I would rather go that route.

[turbovanman²]

2.4 has a different pattern and the starter is in the front. 568's or any TM manual can be made to work by welding on a dowel, see "turboshads" build log.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yep, can do the older trans with a custom front motor mount.

[Turbo224]

Yep, can do the older trans with a custom front motor mount.

Good to know. Maybe I will hang onto my extra 568 after all. I have been trying to read up on the 2.4 lately and I cant quite figure a few things out. If I were to buy a 2.4 out of a stratus, what are the main differences in the motor than the srt? I think I have read that the pistons and rods, rings, bearing, and no oil squirters but am I missing anything else?

[turboshad]

Good to know. Maybe I will hang onto my extra 568 after all. I have been trying to read up on the 2.4 lately and I cant quite figure a few things out. If I were to buy a 2.4 out of a stratus, what are the main differences in the motor than the srt? I think I have read that the pistons and rods, rings, bearing, and no oil squirters but am I missing anything else?

Since the trans question is answered, the SRT4 engine is quite different than the early stratus.

Water pump, oil puump, oil pan and filter location, crank, crank trigger, oil drain for turbo, rods, pistons, head ports, valve size, intake bolt pattern, exhaust bolt pattern (I think but for sure the port shape), VC bolt pattern, lifters, cams, I believe rocker arms.........That's what I can think of right now.

[Speedeuphoria]

^beat me to it^

oil pump, oil pan, intake, valve cover, turbo drain, oil filter location

thats just for 03+, if its an older stratus then the head/valves/tensioner/crank ect will be diff also

lifters and rockers should be the same

[Aries_Turbo]

you may be able to use a neon t350 but you may have to mess with the trans mount and clutch cable.

brian

[Turbo224]

Since the trans question is answered, the SRT4 engine is quite different than the early stratus.

Water pump, oil puump, oil pan and filter location, crank, crank trigger, oil drain for turbo, rods, pistons, head ports, valve size, intake bolt pattern, exhaust bolt pattern (I think but for sure the port shape), VC bolt pattern, lifters, cams, I believe rocker arms.........That's what I can think of right now.

I guess I knew the oil pump and water pump setup were different on the srt. The srt stuff is better if I recall, is it easy to swap that stuff over? So the real question is is it worth trying to build a stratus motor or should I go straight for the srt?

[1FastCSX289]

I guess I knew the oil pump and water pump setup were different on the srt. The srt stuff is better if I recall, is it easy to swap that stuff over? So the real question is is it worth trying to build a stratus motor or should I go straight for the srt?

I built a stratus motor and installed SRT rods and pistons. I had read that this was more than sufficient to throw lots of boost at it provided the tune is correct. I did not do the oil squirters or oil pump/pan mods. I was thinking along the lines of cheap and easy to build and replace. 2.4 Stratus stuff is a dime a dozen. SRT internals are also very cheap.....but an entire SRT motor is quite pricey. As for the tranny mods....its not hard at all. Its just a matter of welding an aluminum block on the trans and drilling it out to run a bolt through it. Swap your dowel-rod line up pin to one of the top bell bolts and you dont have to worrry about being very precise with drilling the new hole.

[rdnoel86]

you may be able to use a neon t350 but you may have to mess with the trans mount and clutch cable.

brian

Theres also the 288 out of the PT GT.....I picked one up and am going this route in one of my mules that I don't intend on running monster hp with......

[rbryant]

Since the trans question is answered, the SRT4 engine is quite different than the early stratus.

Water pump, oil puump, oil pan and filter location, crank, crank trigger, oil drain for turbo, rods, pistons, head ports, valve size, intake bolt pattern, exhaust bolt pattern (I think but for sure the port shape), VC bolt pattern, lifters, cams, I believe rocker arms.........That's what I can think of right now.

The VC pattern is only different by the addition of a new bolt on the newer heads. The old VCs can still be used on the new engine.

Using a new VC on an old engine requires plugging a hole (or just putting a nut on the inside of the valve cover to hold the bolt in place because there is no boss on the head).

-Rich

[Speedeuphoria]

Using a new VC on an old engine requires plugging a hole (or just putting a nut on the inside of the valve cover to hold the bolt in place because there is no boss on the head).-Rich

Also requires milling the spark plug hole lips down ~1/2" or removing the lips on the boots to get the wires to seat. All due to the SRT having a longer plug

[rbryant]

Also requires milling the spark plug hole lips down ~1/2" or removing the lips on the boots to get the wires to seat. All due to the SRT having a longer plug

I disagree with that.

The plug boots on the SRT4 are the same as the DOHC neon plug boots. I have made a bunch of spark plug wires.

I think the length difference of the plugs is all in the threaded portion of the plug.

SRT4


DOHC



-Rich

[Speedeuphoria]

I know the plug boots are the same silly!!

hence why I said the plug was longer

I know its been awhile and I know you like getting factual info lately so it will take me a min or 2 but I assure you that there is a difference.

I had my SRT4 VC milled ~1/2" before I got it Powder coated to fit the plug boots otherwise they just dont reach the plug.

The info is/was on neons.org when people 1st wanted to use the SRT4 VC and found that it didnt work. 1 option was removing the dust cover lip on top of the boot so the wire was able to shove down farther into the hole to attach to the plug, the better way is to mill the top of the VC spark plug hole ~1/2".

EDIT: Seems currently no one mentions it over there, but the older posts talk about it and i believe point to the thread I am looking for but all the links are broken. like this
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...it=valve+cover

Since the combustion chamber/ spark plug is in the same spot virtually. The longer threaded SRT plug deff means something is diff and we know its not the boots. That leaves the head/VC itself.

If i cant find the info I will take pics of the 2 plugs next to each other tomorrow

[turbovanman²]

Rich, Speeduphoria is right. Been there, got stung by it.

[rbryant]

I know the plug boots are the same silly!!

hence why I said the plug was longer

I know its been awhile and I know you like getting factual info lately so it will take me a min or 2 but I assure you that there is a difference.

I had my SRT4 VC milled ~1/2" before I got it Powder coated to fit the plug boots otherwise they just dont reach the plug.

The info is/was on neons.org when people 1st wanted to use the SRT4 VC and found that it didnt work. 1 option was removing the dust cover lip on top of the boot so the wire was able to shove down farther into the hole to attach to the plug, the better way is to mill the top of the VC spark plug hole ~1/2".

Sounds good.

I know that the same plug wires will work with an SRT4 engine or a '95 DOHC engine. I will give you that it is possible that some variance in the combination of valve covers could cause a problem. I didn't fully think of that out.

Were your plug terminals already at the end of the plug boot (probably a dumb question)? They of course can move in the boot and I am sure you tried that before machining things.

I attempted to compare the plugs with the pictures from rockauto and I couldn't see where it would matter with the plug.

Now if the actual plug threads are lower in the DOHC head and the VC compensates that could do it.

I bet if you used the older VC on the newer head it wouldn't matter because you could just push the boots down farther on the plug (raising the terminal upward inside of them).

One other option if that is the case is to just use the SOHC plug wires which are longer with basically the same top connection.

Thanks man I know I am a pain in the butt. I should have kept quiet on this one.

-Rich

[Speedeuphoria]

So far this is all I have:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...it=valve+cover

it should be mentioned that standard DOHC plug wires cannot be used with the SRT 4 valve cover on a old style (1st gen DOHC) head. they are not long enough to clip onto the plug. and no, the SRT4 plug wires are the same. SOHC plug wires work however.

and this:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...cover#p2760587

Spark Plug wires.. Do I just switch to SRT4 plug wires? Seems the tubes stick up taller on the SRT4 VC..

Seems using the SOHC plug wires/boots are the easy way out with the SRT4 VC.

Must be the VC height on the lips is diff and the wires are the same so the plug sticks up higher

[rbryant]

So far this is all I have:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...it=valve+cover

and this:
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.ph...cover#p2760587


Seems using the SOHC plug wires/boots are the easy way out with the SRT4 VC.

Must be the VC height on the lips is diff and the wires are the same so the plug sticks up higher

Good info!

Yea there is something weird going on.

I apparently missed this or forgot about it. Sadly I had even posted in one of those neons.org threads.

SRT4 plug wires and DOHC plug wires are compatible.

Mixing heads and valve covers creates a problem when using the new VC on the old head. Either the valve cover is higher on the late valve cover or the plugs sit lower in the head on the early heads.

Don't the lips on the plug boots hit the valve cover at the same time that the lip on the valve cover hits the underside of the boot? I guess I don't understand what exactly you milled off.

For the extra bolt hole rather than filling it with weld would my idea of putting a nut on the back side of the bolt work?


This is why I like facts.

I was wrong, I was corrected, now we have more knowledge. Who is right and wrong in a discussion doesn't matter lets just air things out and then document what we find. It does make for a lot of reading sometimes though...

-Rich

[turboshad]

I didn't read the links b/c I'm lazy but you guys have pretty much stated it.

The SRT4 head has a thicker threaded section and hence more thread on their plugs. Since the ceramic end is a standard this moves the terminal up. To utilize the same wires, like has been mentioned, the boot seat also had to be moved up which was done on the SRT4 VC. If you want to use a VC with a raised boot seat on a head with a thinner thread section you will have the issue discribed. Speed solved this by machining the area where the boot seats to match the stock 2.4 NA VC height. Hope that clears any confusion...........or maybe it just made more.

[rbryant]

I didn't read the links b/c I'm lazy but you guys have pretty much stated it.

The SRT4 head has a thicker threaded section and hence more thread on their plugs. Since the ceramic end is a standard this moves the terminal up. To utilize the same wires, like has been mentioned, the boot seat also had to be moved up which was done on the SRT4 VC. If you want to use a VC with a raised boot seat on a head with a thinner thread section you will have the issue discribed. Speed solved this by machining the area where the boot seats to match the stock 2.4 NA VC height. Hope that clears any confusion...........or maybe it just made more.

That makes sense. The bottom of the plug is in the same position in the combustion chamber so the extra material in the threaded portion pushes the whole plug upward.

So the solution is to order plug wires for a 2.0l SOHC engine if you use the SRT4 VC on the older head.

It looks like MSD doesn't actually make the SOHC wires but I can do custom ones for $45 or so if anyone needs them so that they don't have to settle for stock or magnecrap wires.

-Rich