The Making of the "GLH-R/T"

[turboshad]

Uh, I sat in the back of the class during school so when equasions are involved I kinda tune out but I am trying to understand why there is no place for port/runner/plenum VOLUME to plug in. Wouldn't the effect of the pulses change if the runners were the size of a drinking straw effecting the 'tuned RPM'? Gah, math

I'm no expert on the subject and am still learning but this is my understanding. The original Helmholtz equation does include pipe diameter but it seems when it comes down to an automotive application it is simplified to length and this why I think that is.

The diameter, or even better, the cross sectional area, of a port is responsible for the velocity of the air flowing through it. Within your design you want to make sure these velocities don't get too close to sonic and choke the system. With regards to wave tuning, the theory is using a sonic shock wave created by the opening of the valve to refelct at the end of the runner and come back just before the valve closes, wether it be on the original valve event or one after. My speculation is that with the diameters used in an automotive intake this pressure spike will always cause a sonic shock wave which means the only concern is the length of time it takes that wave to go to the end of the runner and back which is soley dependant on length and the speed of sound in the substance. Hence you get a function of port length, time in crank degrees, and speed of sound. I'm sure if your runner were big enough there would be no shock wave, but then there would be no use for the equation since there would be no effects of wave tuning wihtout the wave.

It has also been noted by some people that Helmholtz breaks down with higher frequencies/RPM. I can always find people that talk about using different calculations but for the life of me I can't find these mystery equations. So short of software Helmholtz is all I have. If anyone else has or knows additional calculations that can be made for runner length please do share. I would be quite interested.

[Dan15]

Hey its been like 2 WHOLE DAYS with no progress!?!? Whats up with that!







Great work on everything! I'm always amazed when I look at your R/T's engine bay pics and this is even better!

[rx2mazda]

Hey its been like 2 WHOLE DAYS with no progress!?!? Whats up with that!







Great work on everything! I'm always amazed when I look at your R/T's engine bay pics and this is even better!

Thanks Dan! I'm glad the attention to detail is noticed! This engine bay will be by far, way sexier!!! There hasn't been anymore progress.....at least not from me. My car is in Philly at Brian's shop. Hopefully I'll have a Big(pun intended)update soon.

[Pat]

Did the bolts show up?

[rx2mazda]

Did the bolts show up?

No

[rx2mazda]

Thanks to Brian I can keep the updates rolling. He got two important mods done for me, the MSD cam sync and crank trigger for the BS3. Awesome work as usual. Hopefully next week I can spend a couple days at the shop and get some more real good progress.

For the cam sync, Brian made a aluminum cap that houses the small magnet and screws into the end of the exhaust cam. He made another cap the goes on the outside of the head and houses the actual MSD sensor.




For the 24 tooth BS3 crank trigger, Brian machined down the factory crank pulley so that the crank trigger press fit over it and mounts on the backside. He's gonna weld it together once it's all perfect.




I you have any specific questions, I'm sure Brain can/will chime in. Still need to make a mount for the actual magnetic crank trigger pick-up and a ton more little ----.....Stay tuned! Thanks again for the pics B

[glhs0426]

Hey! That tone wheel looks familiar. I did something similar on my truck.

[rx2mazda]

Spent almost 12hours at Brian's shop yesterday and left feeling like I didn't get anything done. I probably stared at the engine bay for more than an hour if you add it up. So little room for anything! Then I got Alan showing off pictures of his Rampage and all the room he's got for the custom rad/IC blah blah blah. Anyways, it's moving slow but it is moving.

I made a plate to attach the BS3 to the passenger side kick panel area out of some sheet aluminum Brian had lying around. Brian came up with the purty design you see.lol That attaches on top to the bolt that hold the dash, on the bottom to the stud for the factory LM, and on the front thru the fender area.



Then I cut out the kick panel for a "flush mount" install. I really like the way it turned out.



Figured out a place to mount the 044's and ran some 1/2 aluminum hard line to the back. Pumps are mounted under the passenger seat area.



Started trying to figure out how the intake was going to work so I could have Lengel finish the injector bores, etc etc. Going to run the rail/injectors on the bottom of the manifold. Intake clears the hood as you see it sitting......barely. Radiator/IC mounting and plumbing is going to be interesting to say the least.





Started the BS3 wiring also. I used the stock pass thru for the LM harness on the passenger side. Just trying to get an idea of where everything was going to go and what wires need lengthening. Looks like I only need to lengthen a few wires and everything else will work perfectly.



Ran into another problem of coarse. My L-body clutch cable won't fit my 568. It's too short. I hadn't seen any info in various L-body conversion threads about needing to change the clutch cable. Brian even said he put a 523 in a L-body and he didn't have to change anything. After a bunch of searching, I found a post by Jackson that answered my problem....

Has to be a 91+ car. If you get one from a 568 car it will be the exact same. They are about a inch longer cause the release lever on a 91+ 568 is clocked farther from the trans. Some 523/543 cars are this way some are not. You almost should get one from a 91+ 568 car to be sure.

Jackson is gonna send me a R/T cable since I forgot to take mine off the R/T before I junked it!

TO DO LIST:
1. Finish mocking fuel system and get needed fittings/hose
2. FMIC plumbing
3. Make mount for LS1 coils
4. Finish crank trigger

^^^This is more for my records. Hopefully I can get back to Philly and make some more progress this week.

[Pat]

Ran into another problem of coarse. My L-body clutch cable won't fit my 568. It's too short. I hadn't seen any info in various L-body conversion threads about needing to change the clutch cable. Brian even said he put a 523 in a L-body and he didn't have to change anything. After a bunch of searching, I found a post by Jackson that answered my problem....



Jackson is gonna send me a R/T cable since I forgot to take mine off the R/T before I junked it!
.

Do you have the clutch arm from the L body? When I swapped to a 568 in my old GLHS, instead of sourcing another cable, I just used the L body clutch arm with the L body cable. Worked fine.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

Hey Chip Foose / Troy Trepanier wanna be
this is turbo-dodge land
knock off that Riddler / Sema quality crap
your making us look bad

yeah, found out the hard way doing Hoagie's clutch in the charger, you can get away grinding the arm too, the locating flat is one tooth off

[rx2mazda]

Do you have the clutch arm from the L body? When I swapped to a 568 in my old GLHS, instead of sourcing another cable, I just used the L body clutch arm with the L body cable. Worked fine.

I read about that too but, nobody ever confirmed it worked. I got this car with no engine/trans so I don't have a 525 arm. Might be easier to do and save me from having to buy Jackson AYCE @ Hoooters SDAC for all the parts he's sent me......That little ----er can eat!

Hey Chip Foose / Troy Trepanier wanna be
this is turbo-dodge land
knock off that Riddler / Sema quality crap
your making us look bad

yeah, found out the hard way doing Hoagie's clutch in the charger, you can get away grinding the arm too, the locating flat is one tooth off

BENDER! Good to know, I may just modify my 568 clutch arm. Reeves and a few others say the L-body cable is weaker, so then it may just be better to run the R/T cable.......decisions decisions

BTW, thanks guys for all the comments, compliments, advise, criticism, etc....it definitely helps keep me going and enthusiastic about "finishing" this project. Sometimes I just want to sell it , walk away and go buy a Hybrid....I'm sure most people that have done a big build know the feeling.

[rx2mazda]

Hey cable shifted L-body guys....What did you guys do about the hump that is under the console when mounting the shifter? Did you hammer it flat? Cut it out and weld a flat piece in? I plan to make a plate for the Rod shifter hole. Thanks!

[Shadow]

Hey cable shifted L-body guys....What did you guys do about the hump that is under the console when mounting the shifter? Did you hammer it flat? Cut it out and weld a flat piece in? I plan to make a plate for the Rod shifter hole. Thanks!

We cut it out on Glenn's car and welded in a flat plate. I think most just hammer it down.

[Simsy]

the car just keeps getting sexier and sexier!! great job once again Carroll

[turboshad]

I'm sure most people that have done a big build know the feeling.

Don't give up Carroll. Trust me, the persistance pays.

Now that that's said........shut up and quite your whining. You haven't even been working half a year on this thing.

[lengel]

Sooooo Jealous!!! This was my dream to have built TIII in a L-body. Carroll you are living my dream! LOL Looks amazing, Cant wait to see it in person. (maybe monday)

[risen]

Ok, so I dug up my intake book (Scientific design of exhaust and intake systems, Third edition. Philip H. Smith and John C. Morrison). Using Helmholtz theory for pipe organs, which gets you close, the equation is:

T=RPM*L/V

T= time for the pulse to travel from closed to open end and back in seconds
L= length of the pipe (runner)
V= speed of sound in the gas being used

Thanks again DJ!

First off, great thread. It's a very impressive build you've got going on.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone done the calculations on length of runner with consideration given to the temperature of the air in the tract? In the equations I see in the post the speed of sound in air is always assumed to be constant. I had originally thought that the pressure/density of the gas would have an effect (I was originally thinking of helium's effect on your voice).

After reading the wikipedia article below it appears that it is actually the temperature of the gas through which sound is moving that has a effect on the speed of sound in that gas. I guess I could sit down and figure out how much error it introduces, but I was curious to know how if anyone has taken it into account. I suppose the humidity and fuel droplets also play a role, after looking through that article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound#Tables

[badandy]

Making progress, slowly but surely! I got the correct L'body tranny mount in and now the motor is sitting like it should. Got the axles in, made the coupler for the manual rack, secured the fenders, installed the fuel tank, bleed the brakes and attached the shifter cables to the tranny so I can mark where I need to cut the holes for them. Not really much more I can do here at this shop so, off to Philly to let B.Slowe help me with the finishing touches.

Lengel sent me his BEAUTIFUL TIII intake so I can mock that up and see whats what. I didn't have it today when I was with the car but, it looks like i'm not gonna have room to add any extra runner past whats already there. It's a tight fit in the front of the L-bodies! Maybe Brian and I can get creative and figure something out...I'm sure in the end it will look/function great. I'm gonna mount the TB on the passenger side. So, only thing left is to wire up the BS3, mount the fuel pumps, bend the fuel lines, and put in a radiator & fan.

That's so badass it's disgusting

[rx2mazda]

We cut it out on Glenn's car and welded in a flat plate. I think most just hammer it down.

Cool, thanks Rob.

the car just keeps getting sexier and sexier!! great job once again Carroll

Thanks, it getting there. now get yours going!

Don't give up Carroll. Trust me, the persistance pays.

Now that that's said........shut up and quite your whining. You haven't even been working half a year on this thing.

I know, but i've put in some hard time in these few months!

Sooooo Jealous!!! This was my dream to have built TIII in a L-body. Carroll you are living my dream! LOL Looks amazing, Cant wait to see it in person. (maybe monday)

Thanks! Your intake is the highlight of my car(hopefully I can use it). Can you degree my cams while your there?

First off, great thread. It's a very impressive build you've got going on.

Thank you!

That's so badass it's disgusting

+1

[Simsy]

mine is going pretty much lol..just needa install all the perf. parts when i get time