l-body manual steering?!

[1984rampage]

I want to convert my shelby charger to manual steering for a number of reasons but dont know where I should go to find the correct manual steering rack or which one I should be looking for.

My reasons for the conversion are to save weight, de-clutter the engine bay, more power, and I like the feel of manual steering.

Soo my question is for those who have done the manual steering conversion or know about it.

What steering rack should I be looking for and where would be the best place to get it?

[jaysshelby]

look for some of the early 80's Omnis as a majority of them had manual steering. be sure to get the coupler as well.

[contraption22]

^^^^ what he said. I'd also grab the column, just in case.

[tryingbe]

Take the belt off and delete the pump.

[Keito]

Flaming River has new Omni racks, but you still need the coupler.
Last time I talked to them, the guy told me they had all kinds of couplers,
just need to match it up.
I'm skeptical they have the correct one.

http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cf...rod/prd231.htm

Rockauto also has the complete racks for $150

[contraption22]

Dan Carson has a Flaming River rack in his '85 GLHT.

[mcsvt]

Reeves has a thread somewhere with more flaming river info. I bought a coupler from them, but it wasn't right for my rack. There are 3 (?) spline sizes...

[rbryant]

Just to be different, I am working on a hydro-electric MR2 power steering pump for my GLHS and the 2.4 swap.

-Rich

[shelbydave]

Isn't the ratio different with the manual racks? And if they are, is it noticeable when driving?

[TurboTurismo]

Take the belt off and delete the pump.

That is exactly what I did in the TT... 5 yrs going ... I actually attached the hoses together with the fluid left in the rack and deleted the pump...Love the feel.. This was with a brand new rack that ended having crossed threads at the fittings.. I wasn't taking it out after all the work

Robb Michael Gearey
OSDAC Member & Mod
http://www.ontarioshelbydodge.com/forums/forum.php
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2291434

[Mehr Macht]

Been thinking of doing the same ^
Except instead of coupling the lines together,adding breather caps to inlet/outlet.
Isn't the coupling going to add a bit more resistance than open air,or no differance?

[rbryant]

Isn't the ratio different with the manual racks? And if they are, is it noticeable when driving?

I think it is 14:1 (shelby) vs. 18:1 (standard PS) vs. ~22:1 (manual). There may also be a faster 20:1 manual that I have heard about (from mopar performance) but it might be hard to find. The 1G neon manual rack also appears to be 22:1.


Considering that I could tell the difference between the shelby rack and the regular PS rack you will see a BIG difference with the manual rack.

The Shelby rack is about 2.4 turns lock to lock (might be slightly limited by the spindle/arm). IIRC the standard rack is about 3 and based on some quick math the manual rack should be nearly 3.75. (people that have the cars with each combo can verify this better than I can). Some quick algebra yeilds a multiplier of about .172 to calculate the turns lock to lock.

14*.172 = 2.4 turns
18*.172 = 3.1 turns
22*.172 = 3.75 turns

BTW it seems that the Neon PS rack is 16:1 so it is somewhere in between the fast and slow power racks and are easy to find.

16*.172 = 2.75 turns

I almost think I remember counting 2.75 turns on my reman rack that was supposed to be a quick ratio rack. I dismissed it because it was clearly not a full 3 turns. Perhaps it actually has some neon rack guts in it or something...

Most people that have tried the manual rack are ok with drag racing and street driving but hate it for autocross and road racing.

If there is a difference felt to the point where they made a special 14:1 rack from the stock 18:1 rack the 22:1 rack is going to feel VERY different and slow.

This seems like a good addition to the KC since I just wasted some lunch time researching it.

-Rich

[ShelGame]

You can make your own coupler if you have at least the bottom yoke...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vb...e&articleid=70

:Thumb:

[rbryant]

You can make your own coupler if you have at least the bottom yoke...

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vb...e&articleid=70

:Thumb:

I just noticed that there isn't really a steering section in the KC.

Should the steering articles be in the wheels section or the suspension section?

I usually see "Steering and Suspension" as the logical category rather than wheels and steering. Perhaps I am just being influenced by Rockauto and other parts stores though...

-Rich

[cordes]

I think it is 14:1 (shelby) vs. 18:1 (standard PS) vs. ~22:1 (manual). There may also be a faster 20:1 manual that I have heard about (from mopar performance) but it might be hard to find. The 1G neon manual rack also appears to be 22:1.


Considering that I could tell the difference between the shelby rack and the regular PS rack you will see a BIG difference with the manual rack.

The Shelby rack is about 2.4 turns lock to lock (might be slightly limited by the spindle/arm). IIRC the standard rack is about 3 and based on some quick math the manual rack should be nearly 3.75. (people that have the cars with each combo can verify this better than I can). Some quick algebra yeilds a multiplier of about .172 to calculate the turns lock to lock.

14*.172 = 2.4 turns
18*.172 = 3.1 turns
22*.172 = 3.75 turns

BTW it seems that the Neon PS rack is 16:1 so it is somewhere in between the fast and slow power racks and are easy to find.

16*.172 = 2.75 turns

I almost think I remember counting 2.75 turns on my reman rack that was supposed to be a quick ratio rack. I dismissed it because it was clearly not a full 3 turns. Perhaps it actually has some neon rack guts in it or something...

Most people that have tried the manual rack are ok with drag racing and street driving but hate it for autocross and road racing.

If there is a difference felt to the point where they made a special 14:1 rack from the stock 18:1 rack the 22:1 rack is going to feel VERY different and slow.

This seems like a good addition to the KC since I just wasted some lunch time researching it.

-Rich

Thanks for taking the time to post that up Rich. I have been thinking about going to a manual rack in my omni, but I don't think it would be a good idea after reading that.

I have a small steering wheel which allows for lane changes at speed with just a flick of the wrist. However, I don't think the small wheel would be enough to counteract the 22:1 ratio.

[rbryant]

Thanks for taking the time to post that up Rich. I have been thinking about going to a manual rack in my omni, but I don't think it would be a good idea after reading that.

I have a small steering wheel which allows for lane changes at speed with just a flick of the wrist. However, I don't think the small wheel would be enough to counteract the 22:1 ratio.

I ran the 14:1 rack with the belt removed for a week or two once. The worst thing was parking lots. I found it to be somewhat of an arm workout when parking. Of course you can always just blip the throttle and let it torque steer to help your arms out but people tend to look at you funny when you do that... 18:1 wouldn't be as bad and people do it regularly.

At speed even the 14:1 rack was fine so the looped 18:1 rack (with some fluid in it) should be fine and it will be fine for drag racing.

I have always wondered if the internals (drive gears, etc) might actually be less beefy in the PS rack due to the expected power assist. My concern about that is that if you are really turning the wheel hard with no power assist for an extended period of time eventually something might snap internallly. I haven't ever heard of it happening though so it must be ok....

I am working on the mr2 electric pump which is actually pretty nice. You can have it kick down to the low speed setting when at highway speed with a simple $30 frequency switch that monitors the VSS. For instance it could turn to low at 30mph and then back on as you slow down.

The electric pump could also be manually powered off for drag racing (or the alternator could be turned off via the voltage regulator field wires which would allow it to run from battery without any load on the engine).

-Rich

[cordes]

How many amps does that pump pull?

[rbryant]

How many amps does that pump pull?

It has a high speed and a low speed. Normally low speed is turned on when over a specified speed (on the MR2 anyway). The MR2 also has a steering movement sensor but I don't plan on trying to add that.


It pulls a max of 50-60 amps at high speed full load (full turn effort) and 10 amps on high speed no load (not turning).

I am not sure about low speed but probably half or so of high speed.

It is significant but nothing that a 90 amp alternator can't keep up with.

The other nice thing is that it is not dependant on engine speed so the pump doesn't change steering feel with RPM.

-Rich

[cordes]

It has a high speed and a low speed. Normally low speed is turned on when over a specified speed (on the MR2 anyway). The MR2 also has a steering movement sensor but I don't plan on trying to add that.


It pulls a max of 50-60 amps at high speed full load (full turn effort) and 10 amps on high speed no load (not turning).

I am not sure about low speed but probably half or so of high speed.

It is significant but nothing that a 90 amp alternator can't keep up with.

The other nice thing is that it is not dependant on engine speed so the pump doesn't change steering feel with RPM.

-Rich

I will follow that project with interest. I'm not sure if it will be what I decide to do, but it is certainly a great sounding option.

How much do the pumps run price wise?

[rbryant]

I will follow that project with interest. I'm not sure if it will be what I decide to do, but it is certainly a great sounding option.

How much do the pumps run price wise?

$125-175...

Not cheap really. And then you need mounts and a control box (if you choose to to run an automatic high/low switch).


-Rich