Thrust bearing failure?

[fastasleep]

If its surging at boost/cruise, that can damage it as the turbine is bouncing back and forth.



Nope, the can is vented to your intake, so your ok there, that's how alot do it, including me, keeps the stink away.


Wow, I can't believe the coking????? Is this the same setup that's been smoking since day one? You need to check the thrust bearings, if the outer surface is speckled or damaged, its most likely dirty, if just grooved, then its an oil or balance or ? issue. It could be just one of those things that there isn't really a reason,

I had 2 turbo's let go and I still don't know why,

I have read it many times, but describe surge. Yes, I may not find a root cause, but if I can, I want to prevent this from happening again. I am not on a witch hunt, BTW. I just wonder how all the coking happened and why. I just ordered a new gapless turbine seal and a 360* thrust bearing. They should be here in a couple of days, but the .50 trim should already be installed by then. I just have to figure out what to do with this wastegate bracket; it doesn't mount up correctly.

-Les

[fastasleep]

Yes, this is the one that has been smoking since day one. But remember, this turbo was tight when I put it on. I felt it many times before getting to install it. Dunno. Hopefully after I get the new thrust bearing and turbine seal in, this won't happen again.
When you say "speckled", do you mean like speckled (detonated) spark plugs?

-Les

[turbovanman²]

I have read it many times, but describe surge. Yes, I may not find a root cause, but if I can, I want to prevent this from happening again. I am not on a witch hunt, BTW. I just wonder how all the coking happened and why. I just ordered a new gapless turbine seal and a 360* thrust bearing. They should be here in a couple of days, but the .50 trim should already be installed by then. I just have to figure out what to do with this wastegate bracket; it doesn't mount up correctly.

-Les

Well surge is when you get into boost and it sounds like a snake, it hiss's and won't hold boost, my 60 trim was like that, couldn't hold part throttle boost only WOT.

Also, the BOV shouldn't vent at in boost, it could cause the turbine to speed up and slow down, sort of like surging which can also damage the bearings, just like not having a BOV, then chopping the gas and you hear that chatter noise,

Nice 360 deg bearings rock. Pay close attention to the bearings, if the bore is worn, they can ream them oversize and have matching bearings, get it rebalanced and if the compressor backing plate is damaged on the cartridge side, you'll have to get another one. Also check the turbine seal area, if its damaged on the cartridge, its junk-that happened to my large shaft turbonetics, the housing got badly chewed up,

[fastasleep]

The turbine seal ring was thin in a spot. I ordered a gapless one to replace it. The bearings looked great which leads me to believe the turbo had sufficient and clean oil.

-Les

[turbovanman²]

The turbine seal ring was thin in a spot. I ordered a gapless one to replace it. The bearings looked great which leads me to believe the turbo had sufficient and clean oil.

-Les

Hmmmmmmmm, sounds like its quite possible the builder simply messed up, sh*t happens.

Where are you getting a gapless ring? I had to order a kit to get one,

[fastasleep]

Hmmmmmmmm, sounds like its quite possible the builder simply messed up, sh*t happens.

Where are you getting a gapless ring? I had to order a kit to get one,

I don't know why it happened, but I know it was okay when I put it on. It did smoke early on, but remember that I had been chasing a smoke issue (not nearly as bad) before this turbo went on. I initially thought that I had this fixed with the PCV mods that I did. I suppose that I could have had oil in the exhaust still from the other turbo that caused this one to *appear* to smoke as soon as it was installed. It didn't, however, seem like there was any extended period where this one didn't smoke.
I am chalking this one up. I am more interested in finding what actually caused the whole thing rather than talking badly about someone who I don't know who probably did a good job in the first place. Yeah, it kinda sh*t the bed, but I would tend to think this is somehow my fault being that I am sure whoever built the turbo has done more than one and has been doing it for years. In my case, I love turbo cars, but have only been messing with them for about 5-6 years.
The bottom line here is that I don't want to ruin another turbo.

Simon, I guess they call it a "staggered gap":

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Here is the thrust bearing I ordered, too:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

-Les

[Aries_Turbo]

are you replacing the compressor and housing? didnt you say they made contact?

Brian

[fastasleep]

Brian,

No, I am not planning on replacing the compressor or housing. They mad contact, but very little contact. True, any contact is bad, but the turbo was still acting right other than the smoke. The thing boosted well and didn't make horrific noises, so I am going to replace the thrust bearing and turbine ring seal and see how it feels.
Like I said, the contact was very light. It didn't bend any of the metal, it just kinda machined it lightly. I was surprised to see that because I never heard any noises and the van still ran great. I suppose that if I had to change the wheel and housing, I would upgrade to a .46 trim, anyways. What does a .46 trim compressor and cover cost these days?

-Les

[turbovanman²]

Simon, I guess they call it a "staggered gap":

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Here is the thrust bearing I ordered, too:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

-Les

Both great pieces. I would try to find a complete kit though, then you get the seals, rubber gasket etc.

Brian,

No, I am not planning on replacing the compressor or housing. They mad contact, but very little contact. True, any contact is bad, but the turbo was still acting right other than the smoke. The thing boosted well and didn't make horrific noises, so I am going to replace the thrust bearing and turbine ring seal and see how it feels.
Like I said, the contact was very light. It didn't bend any of the metal, it just kinda machined it lightly. I was surprised to see that because I never heard any noises and the van still ran great. I suppose that if I had to change the wheel and housing, I would upgrade to a .46 trim, anyways. What does a .46 trim compressor and cover cost these days?

-Les

You won't hear the wheel contact the housing.

I would say a wheel and cover is $200+

[Aries_Turbo]

i dunno. id replace them if any contact is made and have them rebalanced as well. the contact could have unbalanced the wheel even if you index it and reinstall it in exactly the same position. if it is imbalanced, then youll be out more bearings and possibly more stuff and more time and effort.

Brian

[turbovanman²]

If the damage is minor, just rebalance, unless alot of the wheel is gone.

[fastasleep]

Simon, the eBay vendor has a minor rebuild kit that has a 270* thrust bearing, a nonstaggered-gap turbine seal ring, and bearings for close to $40. If you want a major kit, it is about $80, although I didn't see a major with the 360* thrust or staggered-gap turbine seal ring. Since this turbo was rebuilt not that long ago, my bearings and o-rings and such are still good and supple. I'll reuse those pieces.
Aries_Turbo, I will probably just rebalance. There was very little contact; not much of the wheel is gone. I will talk to the guy I know that balances them (of course he builds them, too) and see what he suggests. It really isn't that I don't want to spend the money, its just that I don't think there was that much damage. It the guy tells me to do it, I'll do it.

-Les

[turbovanman²]

True, if the bearings and seals are good, then yep, get a 360 thrust and the new turbine seal.

[fastasleep]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...rge_199965.htm

Is this compressor surge? If yes, then I have it. I will do some reading to find out how to get rid of it. I have a TurboXS RFL BOV. I had it shimmed with 4 washers (really tight). Could this have lead to my thrust bearing failure? Also, I just got the .50 trim on and it is faster! My trans. quit down-shifting to 1st upon stopping. I noticed the kickdown cable had been knocked down from the throttle bracket, so I put it back on, but it still won't downshift to first. If I am driving and I floor it, it will downshift to 2nd, but it won't downshift to 1st at all. If I go from reverse to drive, it will go to 1st, but then it won't ever go back. I tried to slam it into park at about 35 mph, but that didn't help. I readjusted the kickdown cable (I think). Should the kickdown cable have any preload?

-Les

[fastasleep]

Anyone?

-Les

[tryingbe]

It sounds like something in the exhaust side is pushing the wheels forward and caused those mentioned wheel damage.

All pictures of your PCV system, your intake system, your exhaust system, the outside, the inside of them would be great.

[rbryant]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/c...rge_199965.htm

Is this compressor surge? If yes, then I have it. I will do some reading to find out how to get rid of it. I have a TurboXS RFL BOV. I had it shimmed with 4 washers (really tight). Could this have lead to my thrust bearing failure? Also, I just got the .50 trim on and it is faster! My trans. quit down-shifting to 1st upon stopping. I noticed the kickdown cable had been knocked down from the throttle bracket, so I put it back on, but it still won't downshift to first. If I am driving and I floor it, it will downshift to 2nd, but it won't downshift to 1st at all. If I go from reverse to drive, it will go to 1st, but then it won't ever go back. I tried to slam it into park at about 35 mph, but that didn't help. I readjusted the kickdown cable (I think). Should the kickdown cable have any preload?

-Les

The video won't load for me. Perhaps it is a work issue but I generally don't have any issues with streaming video.

-rich

[fastasleep]

It sounds like something in the exhaust side is pushing the wheels forward and caused those mentioned wheel damage.

All pictures of your PCV system, your intake system, your exhaust system, the outside, the inside of them would be great.

That makes sense because the light contact to the turbine was on the center section side and the damage to the compressor was on the compressor cover side. But my exhaust is wide open (full 3")! I'll get pics.

Rich, can you try the vid at home?

-Les

[turbovanman²]

The release at shifting is normal but just near the end, when they get on it, it sound's like surge or the BOV is venting and it shouldn't be.

[fastasleep]

Pics of my exhaust:

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/ph...713&ppuser=714

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/ph...712&ppuser=714

I will get more of the intake and PCV system later.

-Les