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Thread: MPTuner

  1. #1261
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by iangoround View Post
    I've got a feature request. I'd love it if there was a shortcut to set the boost targets and OB shutdown levels.
    Morris,
    Similar to injector/map scaling, could there be some tools for the user to select some quick enter info like the above, boost target, overboost shutdown, and tstat value, (that could automatically calculate the appropriate tables)

    Those and maybe other tables are sort of standardized as far as on/off offset, that we might be able to have calculations built in for generating values in the associated tables.

    Good idea Ian!
    But also a con to this might be sometimes folks might want to choose a different reset point.
    Wayne H.

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    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
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  2. #1262
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: MPTuner

    tell me how you think it should work. i thought it was pretty straightforward to just click on the grouping where those tables were at. i'm always willing to make improvements.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
    87 Charger Shelby T2 (2.4 conversion in process)

  3. #1263
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    tell me how you think it should work. i thought it was pretty straightforward to just click on the grouping where those tables were at. i'm always willing to make improvements.
    I'm assuming Ian suggested it because sometimes it is confusing with one is supposed to be the higher number (like rev limit, or overboost) and then the reset point.

    Fan staging could just be set as defaults for fan-on at tstat temp (setpoint) + 10 deg or something, or whatever the normal offsets are.

    It is more of an idea that helps newcomers for the software. Those that have been using it and familiar with setting everything up might find it unnecessary, but a small timesaver. Problem is, to program the timesaver for the end user, it may be a bunch of software work for you!
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
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  4. #1264
    boostaholic
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    Re: MPTuner

    None of this stuff is confusing, but it is a little tedious when I'm making adjustments in the car on the go. If there was some kind of menu to skip some of the steps to adjust this stuff, it would be cool.

    I think naming the "scaling" menu something like "cal setup" and adding a few things like a quick way to set fan temp targets, OB shutdown, and max boost target and rev limit would be helpful.

    For fan control, I think a " +/- degrees" tool would be fine great, but presets for a 160, 180, and 190 degree t-stats would be cool too.
    For boost targets, I'd like to be able to set the max value points in the target lookup tables to whatever I want my target to be, while probably leaving the lower points alone.
    OB shutdown could just be an "enter a value" kinda deal or maybe calculated based on what the boost targets and selected fuel injectors are?
    Same with the rev limiter. Just enter an RPM value and it should change the tables around for you.

    Oh, I thought of a few hotkeys that would be super cool. One for the RTT function. One for the "reset table" function, and two more that scale the currently active table up or down by a user-definable percentage.

    I don't know enough about it to know how much of a pain any of this would be, or if its really worth the effort on your end.

  5. #1265
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    I'm a big fan of KISS, and to that end, it would be great if the more "advanced" features could be "nested" in the more basic settings. To use the above as an example of what I'm saying, if someone wants/needs a different reset point from what factory is, they could click the "advanced" tab/link to open those options.

    This approach, to my mind, would make tuning our cars much more accessible, as it would be less confusing due to the simplification, while retaining advanced options for those "power users"...

    Thoughts?

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

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  6. #1266
    Slugmobile & MeanMini Caretaker Turbo Mopar Contributor wheming's Avatar
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    Re: MPTune

    Although i am not the one who has to figure out the software ramifications of those change requests, i do like both ideas.
    I am sensitive though to how much we request changes, since it does result in alot of work for Morris and he already gets spread thin with offering to help in so many ways.

    But, as a tester of the new mpscilink device, i would ask you guys to trust me with the following recommendation. If a quick settings type option menu was developed that would do alot of the background legwork to adjust related tables, i think we would be better served to have that happen in mpscandroid bin editor.
    Eventually users will be able to reflash the ecu with your Android device via bluetooth. I'm already doing it now with the prototype. I can edit my bin making adjustments to overboost and rev limit, ignition timing, etc (anything from the turbonator tables) right on my phone, save the new bin and reflash, all without needing to switch cables or plug in my laptop.
    I'm sure trying to get that quick setting function in android will probably cause a whole bunch of new headaches for Morris though.

    I'm very anxious for you guys to have these cool functions at your fingertips also. It hopefully won't be much longer once Miles can assemble the version2 boards and things can be tested.

    I like the KISS philosophy also. Once software is validated, then having quick ways to select those items, rev limit, overboost, boost target, fan cycling, anything else?, etc, would be very simple.
    Wayne H.

    '91 Dodge Spirit ES 2.5L turbo 5spd
    '05 PT GT 2.4T HO autostick (RIP)
    '89 Plymouth Acclaim 2.5L turbo auto, "Slugmobile" yes, THE Slugmobile!
    '89 Dodge Caravan SE 2.5L turbo auto, "Mean Mini" yes, Gus' Mean Mini! (Current best 11.699 @ 114.43 mph! - Oct 15th, 2022 Cecil County Dragway, MD)
    MeanMini dragracing videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...URZLB1RxGYF6vw
    and other cars, trucks and motorcycles
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SlugmobileMeanMini

  7. #1267
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    I don't think there's really much of a way to simplify it much further. For example, there are 2 different fan settings, depending on mph. Each one has an On and Off point. So unless you want them to both be the same, you'll still be doing the same amount or work, per say.

    For boost targets, there's even more tables, like 10 or so I think, each one guarding against different situations. Some are determined by temps, some by mph, some by rpm, etc etc. Not sure how you'd be able to make something that would scale them all properly simultaneously. Maybe something that would set max boost level, but the slopes would all be scaled up or down along with it I'm sure, most likely requiring you to go into each one and modify anyway.

    IMO, there's only so much you can dummy it down and still retain proper tuning characteristics. Perhaps a better idea would be to have a Common tab and Advanced tab, the Common housing all the normally used functions (ie PumpingEff, AdvanceFromMap tables, etc), and the Advanced housing the ones that rarely, if ever, get used (ie AIS settings, O2 ramps, etc).
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  8. #1268
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    I don't think there's really much of a way to simplify it much further. For example, there are 2 different fan settings, depending on mph. Each one has an On and Off point. So unless you want them to both be the same, you'll still be doing the same amount or work, per say.

    For boost targets, there's even more tables, like 10 or so I think, each one guarding against different situations. Some are determined by temps, some by mph, some by rpm, etc etc. Not sure how you'd be able to make something that would scale them all properly simultaneously. Maybe something that would set max boost level, but the slopes would all be scaled up or down along with it I'm sure, most likely requiring you to go into each one and modify anyway.

    IMO, there's only so much you can dummy it down and still retain proper tuning characteristics. Perhaps a better idea would be to have a Common tab and Advanced tab, the Common housing all the normally used functions (ie PumpingEff, AdvanceFromMap tables, etc), and the Advanced housing the ones that rarely, if ever, get used (ie AIS settings, O2 ramps, etc).
    I couldn't agree more. If anything I could see a function that allowed you to group some tables together. I only ever adjust a hand full of them once I get most of it set the way I want anyway.

    While we're on the subject of features, I would LOVE it if you could do a difference of two total timing sheets. That way you could easily compare between what you're doing and the MP or stock stuff. I'm always flipping between to cals to accomplish that.

  9. #1269
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I couldn't agree more. If anything I could see a function that allowed you to group some tables together. I only ever adjust a hand full of them once I get most of it set the way I want anyway.

    While we're on the subject of features, I would LOVE it if you could do a difference of two total timing sheets. That way you could easily compare between what you're doing and the MP or stock stuff. I'm always flipping between to cals to accomplish that.
    there is an option to move a table into a new group. right click on a table and move the table down which creates a new group. you can then drag the whole group to a new level and drag additional tables to it. it is kinda cludgy tho. probably best to have a basic and advanced option menu that holds a user defined list of tables.

    i'll look at the difference option. i think you've requested that before a long time ago.....
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
    87 Charger Shelby T2 (2.4 conversion in process)

  10. #1270
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    there is an option to move a table into a new group. right click on a table and move the table down which creates a new group. you can then drag the whole group to a new level and drag additional tables to it. it is kinda cludgy tho. probably best to have a basic and advanced option menu that holds a user defined list of tables.

    i'll look at the difference option. i think you've requested that before a long time ago.....
    I probably have. I've been comparing the tables that way for years to ensure that the min timing, max timing, multipliers, etc. don't have a crazy affect on some portion of the total timing which could cause a nasty situation. I really appreciate you looking at it for me. Thanks for pointing out that you can create your own table groups. When you move it into a new group, does it move it out of the old group? I probably won't mess with it, but it's nice to know that it's there.

  11. #1271
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: MPTuner

    it moves it out of the old group.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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  12. #1272
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    i got a different question.

    morris, i remember you giving me some stock 87 and 89 table files years ago that were pretty complete. i updated them to version 2 .mpt but it doesnt have any of the grouping.

    has anyone taken the time to make a stock memory location .mpt file with the turbonator grouping set up?

    i have some old cals id like to take a look at and try to figure out why they idled so well compared to some stuff that i have now that is turbonator based.

    thanks

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  13. #1273
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    Re: MPTuner

    which stock binary files in particular are you looking for? i have a stock tpl for the a079 2.2 lm that i just did recently. and i'm sure somewhere i've got the stock a139 tpl for the 2.5 smec. the easiest thing for me would be to send me the binaries. i'll disassemble them and make sure the tpl files i have match up.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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  14. #1274
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by wowzer View Post
    which stock binary files in particular are you looking for? i have a stock tpl for the a079 2.2 lm that i just did recently. and i'm sure somewhere i've got the stock a139 tpl for the 2.5 smec. the easiest thing for me would be to send me the binaries. i'll disassemble them and make sure the tpl files i have match up.
    I guess just 87 t2. I'll send you the bin cause I know some tables are moved around. I have a feeling it's Mopar performance based because of how the idle is compared to everything else.

    When Rob and I were fiddling around many years ago and he came up with the 2.5 turbonator LM version he used 171 stock as the base which has wonky idle alot of the time because of o2 feedback and, in my case, a wideband feeding a narrowband signal to the LM and 75lb injectors and other goofiness (3bar map etc) not helping the idle quality.

    I guess I wish we had a Mopar performance based 2.5 turbonator LM cal.

    I may make one. I'll take the 2.2l mp cal and copy only the minimum of the 2.5l tables to it and see how it runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  15. #1275
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    Re: MPTuner

    ok, let me know how i can help.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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  16. #1276
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post

    I guess I wish we had a Mopar performance based 2.5 turbonator LM cal.

    I may make one. I'll take the 2.2l mp cal and copy only the minimum of the 2.5l tables to it and see how it runs.
    I have one already made that i did for a Daytona CS converted to '87 LM. Needs tweaking still but it starts and runs and idles good. Not MP based but works. Usually the MP stuff just had minor timing differences. I know that they hold the idle up longer so the rpms won't drop so fast between shifts.
    Rob M.
    '89 Turbo GTC

    2.5 TIII stroker, 568 w/ OBX and 3.77 FD

  17. #1277
    boostaholic
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    a wideband feeding a narrowband signal to the LM and 75lb injectors and other goofiness (3bar map etc) not helping the idle quality.
    You know as soon as I hooked up a stock narrowband sensor to my LM instead of the wideband sim output, idle quality improved a lot. I'm not sure why. Maybe the WB translation table was wrong. Either way, doing that plus adding a little bit of base idle with the screw on the throttle body basically fixed my wandering idle problem (for now).

  18. #1278
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: MPTuner

    which t-lm cal are you using? a couple of them have a bad ais position table.
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
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  19. #1279
    boostaholic
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    Re: MPTuner

    I'm using T_LM_22_MTX_A171 at the moment.

  20. #1280
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    Re: MPTuner

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    I couldn't agree more. If anything I could see a function that allowed you to group some tables together. I only ever adjust a hand full of them once I get most of it set the way I want anyway.

    While we're on the subject of features, I would LOVE it if you could do a difference of two total timing sheets. That way you could easily compare between what you're doing and the MP or stock stuff. I'm always flipping between to cals to accomplish that.
    Quote Originally Posted by iangoround View Post
    I'm using T_LM_22_MTX_A171 at the moment.
    ok, the bad cals are:
    T_LM_22_MTX_A079_CSX
    T_LM_22_ATX_0078_SL
    T_LM_22_MTX_A641_MPStgII
    89 Voyager LE, 2.5T2 - rest in peace
    87 Charger Shelby T2 (2.4 conversion in process)

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