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Thread: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

  1. #41
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    I'm using the front hubs from the '91 van. The rear axles slide ride in.
    The rotors are from unvented '89 Daytona Shelby.
    What are the rear hubs/brakes from?

  2. #42
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Thanks very much Lotsaboost for the Differential stuff explanation!!

    It sounds simpler than i assumed.. i was thinking a spacer would be needed.

    Now to go back to planning..

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  3. #43
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    I remember asking about using the Caravan setup on another forum a couple of years ago. Was told it wouldn't hold up. Glad you proved them wrong. Can't wait to see the videos on how she runs. Great job and thanks for the pics and document!

  4. #44
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    They appear to be pretty stout. I'll know more when I get the new clutch in. I didn't want to say anything without concrete numbers but during the brief thrashing, it felt to be around the low 12 high 11 sec. range. with the not so perfect tuning that it currently has.
    What are your thoughts on the strength of the driveshaft joints???

  5. #45
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    This is so freaking awesome. I'm glad somebody finally took the initiative to finally try this and see whether or not it would actually work and hold up to some serious power. Can't wait to see some video of it launching and to see how it holds up long term.
    Awesome fabrication work too by the way!

    -brad
    Brad George Hoping to have a turbo car again soon...

  6. #46
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by 88C/S View Post
    I remember asking about using the Caravan setup on another forum a couple of years ago. Was told it wouldn't hold up. Glad you proved them wrong. Can't wait to see the videos on how she runs. Great job and thanks for the pics and document!
    That kind of talk happened here too
    And thats sorta the reason the AWD threads on TM died even though all of us that were posting "there" were posting here.

    Its too bad some people have to "see it to believe it"
    Faith and perseverance are key reasons this car is running.

  7. #47
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Good job.

    I was never in the camp of "it can't be done." Anything is possible with enough time, money, and talent. And seeing that the TM crowd is a bunch of cheapskates (me included) it just didn't seem worth the time and money for something with so little to moderate gain. Especially if it's a daily driver. You can't lay up your car that long trying to fab stuff up. I have a van that would be a good victim to experiment with AWD and I still didn't bother. I get such crappy gas milage I don't need the extra weight for something I don't really need. Unlike rear A/C.

    A.J.

  8. #48
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    That kind of talk happened here too
    And thats sorta the reason the AWD threads on TM died even though all of us that were posting "there" were posting here.

    Its too bad some people have to "see it to believe it"
    Faith and perseverance are key reasons this car is running.
    Not to start an argument over it but im pretty sure I saw a lot more "that wont work, the PTU isnt strong enough" over on TD.com (especially by phantomrt). I think the threads died out on this site because nobody really made any progress to talk about over the summer (aside from carlos).

    I think most of the members on this site are very positive and optimistic about trying new things

  9. #49
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by CSXRT4 View Post
    Not to start an argument over it but im pretty sure I saw a lot more "that wont work, the PTU isnt strong enough" over on TD.com (especially by phantomrt). I think the threads died out on this site because nobody really made any progress to talk about over the summer (aside from carlos).

    I think most of the members on this site are very positive and optimistic about trying new things
    Attributing the comments of 1 person to a website is sorta silly. Thats like saying Pope represents TM and TD and well some grumpy people might disagree

    The naysayer threads were all in the RWD sections. I started new threads that were meant to be based on fact, not fiction. The MOMENT Carlos stated he got thing things to work for the PTU/DIFF etc, I went junkyard hopping for AWD parts
    Fact>fiction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Carlos = fact, bad threads = fiction.

    The reality is that there are many ways to go about this project. I orginally tried to buy a bad motor VR4 but that fell through. You could EASILY adapt Evo or other awd setups that put the motor on the passenger side in transverse setup. I say easy because I have a friend who offered to do the bellhousing adapter work with me since he does custom motor/trans installs for fun. The other threads were never concentrating on OEM minivan parts. These new AWD threads are meant to concentrate on what can be done with the OEM AWD system, not "what possible ways can we go AWD."

    Using OEM parts just gives a weird satisfying "fuh you" to a lot of people.

    If I built a vr4 type awd shadow, that just wouldn't be very representative of what my OEM platform could do. AWD with minivan parts, now thats cookin!

    Anyone who hasn't, read the AWD threads, there is a LOT of good stuff. Don't read the "what if I put a 4x4 blah blah into my car would I run 10's" or "awd is a waste of time, buy slicks" crap.

    AWD is meant for 4 slicks

  10. #50
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    That kind of talk happened here too
    And thats sorta the reason the AWD threads on TM died even though all of us that were posting "there" were posting here.
    I was one of the first replies on one of big if not biggest AWD threads here. Looking back i wasnt being very encouraging.. but just laying out the facts with no bias can be depressing on its own.. if you have the skills to do this kinda swap you almost dont have to ask whether it can be done, so when anyone asks i get this kind of pessimism in my mind about it

    But regardless of what was said, it has been done! Huzzah!

    I kicked my own AWD swap ambitions to the closet a few years ago when i sent my beautiful Avenger away with my horrible ex.... but the bug is coming back... Those Avenger AWD swaps have been done (now, not when i was thinking of it) by swapping the motor around the other direction like Ondonti said.. but my plans were to keep the motor in stock orientation and use a mix of caravan parts, 6g motor swap, and GSX rear stuff

    out with the old plans in with the new

    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  11. #51
    Hot Certified Christians at TD! Turbo Mopar Staff Directconnection's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Anyone who hasn't, read the AWD threads, there is a LOT of good stuff. Don't read the "what if I put a 4x4 blah blah into my car would I run 10's" or "awd is a waste of time, buy slicks" crap.
    I have been in the dark on this topic!

    I remember the awd "what ifs" thread a couple years ago, starting reading it, but soon lost interest with all the theorizing on if it will work. I thought it was still in the planning stages, but noooooo......

    So, where do I read to see the whole picture w/out being lost in a sea of posts? Can we do this with a 555/568 tranny?

    Lastly... I know it's not finalized yet.... but this should be put into the Knowledge Center.
    Quote Originally Posted by 22mopar
    have a look at my feedback on the forum. all positive.

    Steve

    '90 VNT competition package Shadow - T-III SC6262 conversion/restoration
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  12. #52
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by Directconnection View Post
    I have been in the dark on this topic!

    I remember the awd "what ifs" thread a couple years ago, starting reading it, but soon lost interest with all the theorizing on if it will work. I thought it was still in the planning stages, but noooooo......

    So, where do I read to see the whole picture w/out being lost in a sea of posts? Can we do this with a 555/568 tranny?

    Lastly... I know it's not finalized yet.... but this should be put into the Knowledge Center.
    Carlos' Omni has a 568
    Brad Pennington-Proud SDAC Member 1986 Plymouth Reliant Wagon factory T1 Government Model 89 Shelby CSX 257, and 7 others 4 TIII, 2 convertibles

  13. #53
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Can we do this with a 555/568 tranny?
    That was what i was asking about and what he explained a few posts up.

    You can get a good visual of the AWD 604 vs 5spd diff carrier with some pics Ondonti took of his parts. You can adapt the 604 AWD diff carrier to work in the 5spd using the 5spd ring gear.


    Dont push the red button.You hear me?

  14. #54
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by lotsaboost View Post
    Now, the ring to pinion backlash will be off by a few thousandths from factory specs which is actually a good thing for what we're trying to accomplish. To correct this, you'll have to machine the ring gear mounting surface to the difference that it is off of from the factory specs. This machining will also allow you to center the ring gear onto the flange as it machines a groove to use for the centering onto the flange.
    so the lateral position of the ring gear to the pinion gear sets the lash? it does now that i think of it because of the angled cut to the gear.

    good thing i am friends with a guy with a 4 axis CNC

    brian

  15. #55
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    ^^For this application the simple answer is yes.

    You don't need anything as elaborate as a CNC for any of this to work. The machining to the ring gear is just a matter of chucking it on the lathe and cutting it to the correct spacing. That goes for the bearing retainer also. However, you have a definite advantage with the CNC.

    Looking forward to seeing your finished project. Trust me, you're going to love it. It's like mounting a set of slicks that never slip.

    Carlos

  16. #56
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    just an extra bit of info, the a555 has a 4-spider diff and the ring gear does not detach. In order to do this with an a555 you would have to get the pinion and diff ring gear from an a520 and swap them in along with the AWD diff.

  17. #57
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by lotsaboost View Post
    ^^For this application the simple answer is yes.

    You don't need anything as elaborate as a CNC for any of this to work. The machining to the ring gear is just a matter of chucking it on the lathe and cutting it to the correct spacing. That goes for the bearing retainer also. However, you have a definite advantage with the CNC.

    Looking forward to seeing your finished project. Trust me, you're going to love it. It's like mounting a set of slicks that never slip.

    Carlos
    What was your procedure to figure out how much material to remove to set the correct ring gear backlash???

  18. #58
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    oh wait a min... you used a 568. what diff did you use? 568 or did you make a hybrid with a 523?

    im using a later 3.77 gearset with a 3.50 fd 523 ring and pinion.

    Brian

  19. #59
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Oops, sorry. Jason made a very good point about the diff's ring gear. The 568 is also a 1-piece unit. I did the hybrid and used the 520 diff. I've been falsely referring to it as the 568 ring gear.

    Also, "backlash" is not a totally accurate way of describing the fit between the ring and pinion in this example since the pinion gear is not adjustable like a traditional rearend setup. It's more of a "relationship" between the two.

    So, what I did was just simply took the side-to-side measurement that the ring gear is to the pinion. That is, I measured how "Parallel" the the two gears were to each other as they set with the 520 diff in place, with the bearing retainer and stock extension housing torqued to spec's. After I removed the stock diff, I installed the AWD diff, torqued the bearing retainers, set the bearing preload and then measured the ring to pinion relationship. The difference between this measurement and the stock one is what you will machine the ring gear to. This will give you a good contact pattern between the two even though we're doing something unconventional like installing the ring gear on its "coast side".

    Man, I hope I didn't overcomplicate this as it's really not that difficult. So, I hope it helps.

  20. #60
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    ok so you are just looking for the gears to fully mesh with each other and not hang off either edge.

    are you at all concerned with the difference in wear patter as the coast side will be less worn than the load side? ive always been told that you arent supposed to do goofy things with gears once they are worn together. the wear may be negligible i suppose.

    I assume you flipped it over as it either has a non centered flange or a non-finished side of the flange right? its been a while since ive had a diff out of a car.

    Brian

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