Buy Audi S4. Done.
Buy Audi S4. Done.
I'm going to be blunt about it; I don't have time nor the patience for "quality" German engineering.
If I just wanted a fast car, I am definitely going about things the wrong way. My goal is to have a car that is truly unique that is serviceable, daily drivable, quiet, reasonably efficient even by today's standards, and doesn't have outrageous maintenance costs *cAUDIoff* *cAUDIoffi*. It is going to be something that nobody will be able to duplicate without a lot of struggling and head scratching. Yet, it'll all look like everything belongs there. My rear end that I'd build isn't going to be able to fit that bill quite well, but at least it'll be tucked underneath.
Trust me. I understand that it is fun to play. I have a '68 Dodge pickup with a 440. It is something that was never made and getting it to stay together in a high horsepower setup is not simple. It hasn't been easy (truck has been off the road for a year) and it hasn't always been enjoyable either.
My CPO Audi has a 100k warranty. And maintenance to 55k is covered based on the deal I worked (wheels and tires are 3 years / unlmited miles with no question asked). Also, best AWD made available to mass consumer purchase by anyone, anywhere. Even if you went with Pacifica it is still very nice German engineering. Do you think Getrag is French? Italian?
I think you'll nail "unique" quite well. When you get the rest, send me a PM.
I will admit that I hope you get this figured out. And I hope you pass me at the track in my Daytona.
Last edited by chilort; 11-07-2012 at 01:46 AM.
maybe the S4 style but not that Haldex stuff. Mitsu and Subaru have better AWD than that.Originally Posted by chilort
Brian
I dunno. Most high-po Audi's I know of don't need much done to the stock AWD to hold up (from what I've seen...admittedly I'm not that knowledgeable about them). The most *I* know of is custom shafts. I don't know of them needing custom gears, braces, diffs, ect. to hold up.
Getrag also made the 5spd AWD transmissions in the 3000GT. You are lucky to get 70,000 miles out of them before it shows sign of synchronizer wear. And it doesn't stop there. The transfer case was not engineered to be resilient to fluid leakage, and causing some very significant safety issues. Also, the splines on the output shaft to the transfer case like to strip, and when that happens, you fry the viscous coupler inside the transmission. The rest of the transmission is reasonably strong, but if in a quest for universal quality engineering bragging rights....
We saw what happened when Chrysler was taken over. Germans ran that into the ground.
I can really get going on it, but I am not going to. Everyone makes their share of garbage.
The truest thing ever stated on the internets.
You have to remember that the company is contracted to make a product to the manufacturer's specs and price. So, just because Getrag made it doesn't automatically mean that they are the ones that designed it.
Just like the transmisssion in the MazdaSpeed3 and the Focus SVT. Same basic transmission, completely different internals.
yeah they are strong but from a performance/handling/putting the power down in a way that makes the car awesome, the transverse haldex audi stuff sucks. the longitudinal stuff like the a4/s4 is good.
Brian
I picked up the AWD transmission yesterday. I have yet to even get it unloaded from the back of my Metro and such, but I can verify that the speedometer sensor teeth do not exist on the passenger side CV axle on 1997 model year vehicles. As I suspected, they probably went away with those quite quickly when they were no longer necessary. It was a good cost-cutting measure.
FYI: you can really feel it when a transmission in the trunk of a Geo Metro rolls around a bit.
Im pretty sure they did away with the VSS on 604s well before 97 although i cant say the exact year. In fact, a lot of 604s did away with the extension housing entirely, and simply had a flat plate holding the axle seal and the diff bearing race on non-awd.
Dont push the red button.You hear me?
I *think* the last year for the VSS was '91. I could be wrong on that, though.
The cloud cars went away from the tail housing if I'm not mistaken. I thought the vans kept it?
fwiw the vss gear is on the hollow shaft that drives the ring gear inside the ptu not on the axle like a fwd car
Sh** you are right. It is so obvious now. Dang it. I messed up on that one. Thanks for the clarification.
---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------
The VSS went until 1992 and was gone for 1993. This, I am quite sure about.
wow..
i'm in the acquiring parts phase.. picked up a motor from a local
yesterday pulled a bunch of srt4 hubs/struts from another local...
still looking for the van awd setup.. hopefully auto
That shouldn't take too much hoping...
... on account of we've never heard of a manual AWD mini.. (factory)
DD1: '02 T&C Ltd, 3.8 AWD. DD2: '15 Versa Note SV, replacing.. DDx: '14 Versa Note SV << freshly killded :( ....... Projects: '88 Voyager 3.0, Auto with shift kit, timing advance, walker sound FX muffler on 15" pumpers wrapped in 215/65/R15 H rated Nexens.... and a '95 phord escort wagon PnP head << Both may need to go :( ..... I like 3.0s ... so??? ... stop looking at me like I've got two heads!
bleck. Beat up on some rich kids upgraded turbos S4 (dumped 10k into having someone else upgrade his car) on two pulls in a row and he wanted to run again cause he obviously had in cab boost control but I am too smart for that. What made him the maddest was that I walked him the hardest on the top end. Even when he upped the boost I skooted right past after he put half a car on me down low. His friend thought I have crazy top end and well, I have a 2 valve head and stock heads/cams so I know I don't have great top end. I didn't take his car but I did take the respect.Obviously AWD would kill my daily driver in a dig but that is what this thread is about
If you want cheap and Audi its still going to end up being a piece of junk car (any old car that someone messed with and makes unsellable for what is put into it).
Speedo is as easy as GPS speedo signal for ~$120. Fuel cell in the spare tire well is a quick and dirty solution for the rear end. Thats why the Duster is very easy if I get time to put the 7.5" rear end in.
When I was in Utah a few weeks ago and had to get a radiator fan in the middle of my trip, I saw another AWD van in the same yard that I pulled my setup from. I wanted to spend a day stripping it
Last edited by Ondonti; 11-22-2012 at 08:47 AM.
Brent GREAT DEPRESSION RACING 1992 Duster 3.0T The Junkyard - MS II, OEM 10:1 -[I] Old - 11.5@125 22psi $90 [U]Stock[/U] 3.0 Junk Motor - 1 bar MAP [/I] 1994 Spirit 3.0T - 11.5@120 20 psi - Daily :eyebrows: Holset He351 -FT600 - 393whp 457ft/lb @18psi 1994 Spirit 3.0T a670 - He341, stock fuel, BEGI. Wife's into kid's project. 1990 Lebaron Coupe 2.2 TI/II non IC, a413 1990 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1993 Spirit 3.0 E.S. 41TE -- 1994 Duster 3.0 A543 1981 Starlet KP61 Potential driver -- 1981 Starlet KP61 Parts -- 1983 Starlet KP61 Drag 2005 Durango Hemi Limited -- 1998 Dodge 12v 47re. AFC mods, No plate, Mack plug, Boost elbow -- 2011 Dodge 6.7 G56
I got the differential out of the 1997 transmission, and it appears as though the differentials are still the same throughout all the model years. The ring gear bolt pattern is the same as a 523 transmission. It really helps to have all the parts in front of me to visually see how it all works. For example, I was thinking that the differential pin took the force of all four driven wheels, when in fact it only takes the force of the front wheels. That was another mistake on my part. So, that means I am much less worried about the differential pin being the weak spot. I may still do something to the differential to help keep the pin in place though. The salvage yard staff all say a similar thing about common 41TE transmission failures, and that is in regards to the differential pin exiting through the case. Sometimes, it exits into the bell housing. The differential I have appears to have a solid pin retainer instead of a roll pin for a retainer. The 523 transmission I have from 1992 has a roll pin, and I was not aware of any common failures there in those transmissions. Any advice on this?
I got a front passenger CV axle from a 1992 model AWD van, and it appears as though it'll need to be shortened a bit as expected. Possibly no more than 3/4" or so. I also got the CV axles from the rear of a 2005 Pacifica to match my rear differential. I am confident that the Pacifica is significantly wider than a G-body, so those will undoubtedly need to be shortened. An interesting tidbit is that the rear Pacifica axles are not equal length. Although, I do not know anything about the process of shortening axles, or if certain designs of axles is even practical to shorten. I imagine that some are designed with one shaft going inside of a larger one and it is then welded around it, in which case it would be easy to shorten. Other axles may not be this way, and I imagine them being cut on a lathe and butted back up and welded with a butt joint. Balancing afterwards shouldn't really be necessary since axles don't spin super fast and all the mass is close to the center axis.
Then, for a rear propeller shaft, I imagine it coming from a Pacifica, and again, it'll need to be shortened and this will need to be balanced due to it spinning at 3.5 times the drive axle speeds. I think the project can be started as soon as I get at least a "core" propeller shaft.
Should I run 3.77 gears or 3.85? The 3.50 doesn't make a lot of sense to me with having the AWD traction available. The 3.77 is the middle ground as usual, and the 3.85 isn't far away from the 3.77, but it'll give that little extra oomph and shouldn't affect highway RPM too much. Traction is definitely not going to be a concern.
The flip side is that I believe the 3.77 is the strongest, but I have yet to see/hear of a failure of any kind with any of the final drive ratios. All ratios are available with a 523/543. The 568 is stuck with 3.85 unless the entire differential is replaced with the "weaker" 2-pinion differential. And of course, in any case, the intermediate shaft in the transmission will need to be swapped as well in order to change ratios.
You mean you beat an at least 10 year old 2.7L v6 with bigger v6?
Just ribbin' kind of.
I am stunned, totally blown away actually at what the Audi folks pay for stuff. We build our exhauts they pay $1200. Rob or Rob cut you cal for next to nothing they pay $1200. We put in some new spark plugs and go fancy and pay $12. They go to advanced coil packs and pay $1200. We buy a filter from K&N for $50. They by some tube and a filter for $500.
In short, we're in the right market for going fast for little money. But the vendors are mostly in the wrong market for making loads of cash.
Last edited by chilort; 11-22-2012 at 10:16 PM.
That irritates me. "There are too many self-indulging weiners in this country with too much bloody money." I go to car shows and see some really blingy rides where they'll be showing off their list of "mods" which is realistically only a tally of dollar amounts and they never really put any kind of substantial work into the car. Things like the $1200 coil packs have no real gain over what was there before, but they buy them anyway thinking that they are so wonderful and to show off their wallet and how they got that way as a result of their parents paying for their entire college expenses, etc. "Hey, I make $65k a year... how 'bout you, buddy?"
Yes, they can bolt on some fancy trinkets, but can they properly install a rear main seal if they can get to it? Not really. OR they're too lazy to even bother stopping a massive leak.
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