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Thread: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

  1. #501
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Yeah I thought the 41AE was the same in the van and the pacifica.

  2. #502

    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by EZEILL View Post
    Geez, my memory is so bad I forgot I had even commented here. For the most part, this does look very simple to do, minus acquiring the right parts. There are still a few things that I don't understand due to incomplete information, case in point he spoke about machining and flipping a gear on the front differential but for me that scrap of info is confusing.
    I think I know what he is talking about... I plan on converting my car starting this year so maybe I can document more of this...

    One thing I am wondering about is whether or not there is a REAL need to make custom framing to tie in the rear of the car to the front. He didn't do it on the omni, so I wonder if I even need to bother on my charger.
    I was thinking he might have. For may Shadow, I plan on extending the frame rails to the rear suspension mounts...

    Another thing, can someone please link me to wherever the info is for the dedion stuff is, the links earlier in the thread don't lead to any info and I want to see the original design/info. Sometime in the hopefully near future I am going to start my own thread to log my progress, and discuss curiosities of mine.
    I think there is a wiki page describing this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Dion_tube basically, the diff is bolted to the body and axles with flex joints (ie CV joints) connect the diff to the wheels. And the axle is solid...

  3. #503
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    I don't know how it will format, but I've compiled the conversations Carlos and I had discussing our AWD ambitions, and there is some good info in there... if there is interest, I'll post it up in this thread.

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

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  4. #504
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    The van PTU moves the output shaft below the center line of the front axles. The Pacifica PTU places it above the center line of the front axles. The case is much flatter on the block side, but because it's taller, I don't know what all it might interfere with.

    I have one, but haven't mocked it up on anything yet. The guts also look more beefy than the van. I took both apart a few years ago and took pictures, etc. I don't know that I ever got around to posting them. I do still have them.

  5. #505
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    The rear differential, or carrier assembly as I've seen it labelled as throughout google and eBay, that I pulled off the 07 Pacifica looks very similar to the Caravan unit that Carlos used, but has a different mounting design, and like I said a ratio of 2.357 which is far from the 3.85 that I believe the unit Carlos used has. I haven't had hands on with the van version of the Pacifica so I can't comment on that variation.

  6. #506
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    What I currently have

    2.2/2.5 Common block (Off the top of my head I don't remember what year vehicle it came out of)
    1992+ PTU (Power Transfer Unit) Not sure why people call it a PTO or what that would stand for. My unit will need the housing machined to allow the speedo gear to go inside the body, and either the shaft machined or the '91 shaft installed to drive the gear

    What I need

    A568 transmission geared at 3.85, along with the shifter and cables/linkage (I don't know what that transmission used)
    PTU adapter bracket (I think this is the piece that goes between the transmission and the PTU)
    Rear Diff/Carrier Assembly geared near 3.85 (Depending on condition I have found these priced from $200-$600)
    Drive shaft (I have one that I pulled from an '07 Pacifica but I don't know if I'll use it even if it's possible)
    Set of hubs that will fit the 87 GLHS Centurions (Most likely going to use ones that are meant for the Charger w/ potential mods)
    Set of Knuckles/Spindles (Most likely going to use ones that are meant for the Charger w/ potential mods)
    AWD gears from the vans transmission (Toying with the idea of ordering the individual gears and bolting them to the A568 if possible)
    The k-frame assembly from the AWD van, as reference since I am looking towards building a custom unit.
    Rear brakes (preferably Chrysler branded, either with the e-brake built into the caliper, or the style where the rotor is also a drum. Preferably the former.)

    I know I need the axles as well, but I don't know the spline count of the vans vs the ones from my charger, which is very important as I am only interested in using the Centurions.

    Another bit of info that I need to know is whether the beefier design of the common block was meant for strengthening the block or for oil/cooling passages.

    In regards to the vehicles frame and the necessity for extended/ custom frame rails. Based on the videos and pictures of Carlos' Omni, it does NOT look to me like he did anything to tie the rear of the car to the front (which to my understanding is to prevent the body from twisting due to I guess torque in the rear)

    I need to know what Carlos meant when he talked about machining and flipping/rotating that diff gear, and what he did exactly so that I can get it done for my car.

    If there is anything that I didn't mention, please let me know.

  7. #507
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
    The van PTU moves the output shaft below the center line of the front axles. The Pacifica PTU places it above the center line of the front axles. The case is much flatter on the block side, but because it's taller, I don't know what all it might interfere with.

    I have one, but haven't mocked it up on anything yet. The guts also look more beefy than the van. I took both apart a few years ago and took pictures, etc. I don't know that I ever got around to posting them. I do still have them.
    Would love to see what you have... picts please! :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by EZEILL View Post
    The rear differential, or carrier assembly as I've seen it labelled as throughout google and eBay, that I pulled off the 07 Pacifica looks very similar to the Caravan unit that Carlos used, but has a different mounting design, and like I said a ratio of 2.357 which is far from the 3.85 that I believe the unit Carlos used has. I haven't had hands on with the van version of the Pacifica so I can't comment on that variation.
    Carlos didn't use a Caravan rear diff, it was from a Pacifica. The picture I posted was of the unit that was actually IN Carlos' car...

    I'm going to try to post our correspondence in my next post, if it's too much, or doesn't work for some reason I'm sure it can be deleted...

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

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  8. #508
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Mike unless Carlos changed which unit he was using and didnt mention it in the thread, I refer you to page one of this thread. Since you and I began talking, you have said that he used the Pacifica rear diff, which is what lead me to purchasing the one that I currently have. Considering that Getrag made the diffs throughout the years I dont doubt that they kept the main design of the diff housing, which admittedly can make this confusing.

  9. #509
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by EZEILL View Post
    A568 transmission geared at 3.85, along with the shifter and cables/linkage (I don't know what that transmission used)
    PTU adapter bracket (I think this is the piece that goes between the transmission and the PTU)
    Rear Diff/Carrier Assembly geared near 3.85

    Another bit of info that I need to know is whether the beefier design of the common block was meant for strengthening the block or for oil/cooling passages.
    the front diff ratio is irrelevant because the ptu is driven off of the front differential carrier. the PTU ratio and the rear diff ratios are the ones that you need to be concerned with. i vaguely remember the van ptu was 3.45 and the rear diff being 3.42 (or maybe the opposite i cant remember) because the overrun clutch in the rear diff was designed for the rear axle to freewheel until the front wheels slipped and then the overrun clutch would lock and the rear wheels would receive power.

    i also thought that the block/oil pan rails were in the way of the ptu but then again, i could be wrong. try to mock stuff up before you commit.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  10. #510
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Just a bit of googling leads me to believe that the caravan and pacifica diffs share the same body design BUT different mounting design, the caravan ones bolt straight up through only two mounts that are snug to its body, whereas the pacifica has two arms that extend away from the main body and one mount that is snug to the front housing. Unless I am missing some important detail pertinent to a specific year, I do not believe Carlos used a diff from a Pacifica. 2001-2004 caravan/town and country 2004-2006 then 2007-2008 pacifica. The year groups for the pacificas looks to have only changed gearing and maybe some internal controls.

  11. #511
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    2003 Town and country rear diff pulled straight from dealerconnect (chryslers employee site) https://gyazo.com/f6f97748bebe1c61704e5325ab267248
    2004 Pacifica rear diff pulled straight from dealerconnect https://gyazo.com/903302c3f4fe8283d5c2150bca460406 (it was a pain to actually find this image on the site as the technician portion does not have it under the differential, rather its under assembly, and you must look at the overrunning clutch housing to view the full unit.)

  12. #512
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    the front diff ratio is irrelevant because the ptu is driven off of the front differential carrier. the PTU ratio and the rear diff ratios are the ones that you need to be concerned with. i vaguely remember the van ptu was 3.45 and the rear diff being 3.42 (or maybe the opposite i cant remember) because the overrun clutch in the rear diff was designed for the rear axle to freewheel until the front wheels slipped and then the overrun clutch would lock and the rear wheels would receive power.

    i also thought that the block/oil pan rails were in the way of the ptu but then again, i could be wrong. try to mock stuff up before you commit.

    Brian
    This is going to be one part that will be a problem, because I keep getting conflicting information. I suppose the only thing that will 100% verify what I need to do would be if the current owner were to take the parts apart and could the teeth. The pictures on Carlos' photobucket lead me to believe the rear diff he used is geared 3.45 based on the tag thats on the side of the unit.

  13. #513
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    [QUOTE=zin]Just thought I touch base with you, and confirm that the screen name is correct (yours). I'm Mike Flynn, the other guy working on a AWD Omni.

    As luck would have it, while I was visiting in Indiana, Moparman (George Manning) found a 91 AWD van so I went down to the pick-a-part it was at with BradP and was able to grab some of the parts I needed.
    It seems this particular van had had a failure in the rear end as it had been removed before it went to the J/Y. So, while I was able to get the diff and pass side drive shaft and a spare PTU, the rear drive shafts and rear diff were gone...
    Just as well, I have no idea how I would have gotten them home in the time I had...
    Anyway, how's your project going? Do you have a picture of the diff you are using? I'm very curious as to how it varies from what I have. Heck! I'm very interested in seeing any pictures you have of the thing installed in an Omni!!

    Best Regards,

    Mike Flynn
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] [Hey mike, just replied to you on TD. If you want, you can keep replying here, I need to get on here more often.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] Thanks for the reply, I will just keep the conversation here, it's easier for me.
    Anyway, I don't get to TD that much these days, just don't have the time. Any progress on your end?
    I'm very encouraged by finding the critical parts I was missing. Any chance you could send me a picture of the rear-end you'll be using? I've never seen one of the newer units and am curious how they differ. If you can, my work email is: [] Thanks!
    Mike

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] I saw the thread about the AWD Omni, I'll just post the pics there. I have 2 pics, I'll have to get some of the rear-end.
    Thanks,
    Carlos

    [QUOTE=zin] Hi Carlos, was banging around in the garage tonight, came upon a set of front hubs from a CSX I scavenged parts off of, and was comparing them to the rear discs I got to put on the Omni.
    I'm not seeing how a front hub is going to mount to the rear axle and retain the disc/e-brake arrangement.
    I can see possibly fab'ing an adapter plate to allow the use of the front hub, but then there's no e-brake… I know you had said you have figured out how to get a driven hub on the rear axle and keep the disc brakes, would you mind buying me a clue on this one?
    It is late, so maybe I'm just not seeing something, but...
    Thanks for any and all help!!
    Mike
    PS Where are you at with your project? Anything I might be able to help with, please LMK!

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Hey Mike, How's it going? Glad to see you're still with the project.
    I'm using the front hubs off an early minivan. They're the same as Daytonas, Spirits, and Lebarons etc.
    The rotors are off an '89 Shelby Daytona (rear non-vented).
    The only thing non-Mopar is the caliper assemblies. They're off a '97 Mustang rear disc with non-vented rotors. They have the e-brake built right in and it's easier to use than the inner drum e-brake setup that the Daytonas use.
    I'm not using the van's rear suspension. I designed my own (not much too it) after Shelby's prototype DeDion tube suspension.
    You can make it out of flat tool steel and square tubing. I don't have any pics of this stuff yet. When I get completely moved in I'm going to finish this thing and take a million pics. All I have to do is put it together.
    I hope this helps, let me know if you need anything else.
    Carlos

    [QUOTE=zin] Ok, looks like that might be another place we'll diverge.
    I'm going to do my damnedest to retain Chryco brakes, really as much OE stuff as I can and keep the fab to a minimum, but it looks like a new trailing axle, or some adapters are going to be needed to do so...
    I was almost going to just buy the stock driven hubs, till I saw everyone wanted over $150.00 each!! As it is, I'm thinking I'll just mod the fronts and/or fab a new adapter. Not sure just yet, but I'll try to keep you up to date!
    BTW, I just bought a couple of NEW Pass side CV shafts from Autozone for $70.00 each (shipped). All the others I saw were like $130.00 each (with a core, etc). So, now I have a few spares and a couple of CV joints I can hopefully use on the back...
    I've also recently picked up a spare K-frame so I don't have to mod the one in the car right now, that way everything can stay mobile.
    Do you have any other picts of what you had to do to yours? I can see (from the picts on-line) that the drive shaft seems to pass between the steering rack and the K-member, but I'm curious if there are any issues with the shaft hitting when the engine torques over?
    I'm also toying with the idea of fab'ing a new K-member that would allow more room, maybe spacing the rack up a bit, but I worry about bump steer.
    If I do, I'm going to see if it would be possible to use a non-L body rack, since I'd be placing my own mounting points for it, but bump steer might be even worse...
    Oh well, probably going to just have to try it and see how it comes out, I just hate to do a bunch or revisions if I don’t have to.
    Mike
    PS Where are you at with your project? Anything I might be able to help with, please LMK!

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] I think the ideal K-member would be from an automatic as you have to add all the brackets for the bobble strut and PTU mounts and you don't have to worry about removing the originals.
    The way I mounted the steering was with spacers. I simply added spacers between the rack and the K-member. And, yes I'm concerned about bump steer but I will deal with it after it's done (If it's not livable). But, I also spaced the rack as minimally as I possibly could.
    There's several options to remedy the bump steer issue pretty easily anyway.
    Also, I had to cut a "U-channel" out of the K-member to allow the PTU to fit towards the rear. I reinforced it with chrome moly u-channel steel.
    So...the rack was lifted with spacers and the PTU exits via a u-channel cutout of the K-member.
    Also, the manual rack gives u another full inch to work with and I'm not too worried about anything hitting as I have Poly mounts everywhere. This thing ain't movin'.
    Unfortunately I don't have any more pics. I moved in to this new house about 3 weeks ago and believe it or not I'm still not completely moved in yet. I still have other stuff to move and I still haven't started moving my shop equipment, otherwise this thing would've been done about a month ago.

    BTW, are you using the 4spd trans? And, have you mounted anything in the car yet? Any pics? You can send me some to my email if you want.
    For what it's worth, if this thing works out OK, I'm going with the 4spd trans with the auto stick, I think it's going to hold up better than any manual trans.
    Carlos

    [QUOTE=zin] Well, I pulled an auto K-member, and the one that is in the car is also an auto (IIRC), so at least that's in my favor.
    Nothing in the car yet, no room at the Inn with the Spirit still broken... but that's a whole other story.
    'm thinking I might mod the K-member with a piece of tubing that the PTU driveshaft would pass through to act as a drive shaft loop in the event that something unexpected happens, that is if the flange will come off without the use of explosives!
    I've got a "built" 413 w/reverse manual valve body that I'll be installing 1st, but I do plan on putting in a 4-speed (2002 or older) that has the separate controller. I'm holding off on that because: 1, I don't have one. & 2, I haven't done enough research to know exactly which one will work the best.
    I still need the rear drive shafts (front to back and rear wheel) or at least the flanges for the diff and PTU sides. I expect that I'll have to have stocker's modified, as I'd rather do that then have custom ones built (yeah, I'm cheap!), and I'm a little worried that the flanges won't be something a driveshaft shop will have or be able to get at a reasonable price.
    On a related note, on the stock, front to rear shaft, there was some kind of spring loaded joint that allowed for fore and aft motion, I don't think it was a regular CV joint or a tri-pot, I don't know if this is the way it is on your donor van, being that it's much newer than what I have, could you take a look and maybe a picture so I can see it and have something to show to the driveshaft shop?.
    I think I'll have a much bigger challenge installing the torque tube style rear, if I keep a full (rear exit) exhaust, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it!
    If you have a picture (or can take one) of the rear you are working with, I'd really like to see how different it is, not that I'm going to go out and switch, I have a loose rule for this project that all the major parts will come from Pick-a-Part, in an effort to keep cost to a min.
    BTW, the car it's going in is the one in my Avatar, in case you’re curious, yeah it looks like hell, but it has a rust-free CA body and is pretty much all there. And I think it'll be a lot of fun to blow off BMWs and Porches in such a hoopty-looking ride!
    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Yeah, don't I know about enough room or broken cars…
    That's going to be really interesting to see yours with the 413.
    I had all 3 trannies (413,41te, & 568) side-by-side at one time. I'm pretty sure the 413 will require a spacer for the ring gear, just an FYI.

    That's a good idea with the PTU loop, in some ways I'm kinda scared about shrapnel 'cause I'm going to launch this thing very aggressively to test the strength of the parts. But...I'm very confident that the PTU will be the strongest piece of the whole system. I'm more concerned about the 568, the pinion gear is simply dwarfed by size comparison with the 41te trans.
    I don't remember the exact dimensions but the 4spd pinion gear is significantly larger in diameter and wider than the 568 piece.

    I will see what I can do about the pics. I'll have to dig out the cameras and get some parts moved into the new garage. I'll try to do it tomorrow (Sunday).

    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] Everything I've learned about the 4-speed has lead me to the same conclusion, that it's a damn strong and well-designed transmission that got saddled with a piss-poor control system...

    If there had been a hydraulic version 1st, it wouldn't have a bad rap. But for now I'll stick with the 413, mostly because I have a few, and know they fit. I was under the impression that the two autos shared some parts in the diff/transfer gear dept., but that might have just been wishful thinking.

    The trans I have now has a spacer for the Quaife that is installed, I wonder if that would do the trick? Heck, maybe we could have a company like Pelecin Differentials spline a LSD or stocker to work with the PTU... On second thought I'm sure they could, but would they, and for how much $$?

    Mike
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

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  14. #514
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor zin's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] I've got the rear-end moved into the new garage, I'll take pics and send 'em to you.
    The diff in the 4spd does not have the exact dimensions of the 3spd, thus the need for a spacer.
    I don't remember the exact measurements as it's been quite some time and I had to get rid of a lot of parts along with all my trannies.
    The manual, 3spd, and 4spd diff's are all different dimension wise. The '97 & up 3spd has the same carrier bearing diameters as the 4spd.
    The earlier 3spd has the small diameter bearings. In order to mount the AWD diff to the 3spd, it'll have to be a '97 & later trans.
    When I started this project there was a company making a quaife type of LSD for the 4spd trans. I talked to some local machinists who were familiar with them and they said that since the tooling was available for the diff, then the extra tooling for the spline to attach the PTU would not be difficult. And, that it would be comparatively priced to the quaife. But, I haven't looked into it since then.
    And...Yes, our conversations have been motivating and encouraging, which is almost a joke with our TD crowd. I had this idea roaming around my head for quite some time but everybody kept saying "it's too weak" or "The van system sucks" or "the Japanese have it down pat" so...I decided to go ahead and do it since no one had any concrete proof to substantiate any of their discouraging claims.
    I learned all this from my 2.4L 5spd Daytona. I had that idea for a while too. I actually quit that project after all the negative remarks against it.
    Then, I thought, no one has ever done it so how the heck do they know! So, I went ahead and did it and low and behold, it worked! So I started a thread on the first 2.4L mated to a 568.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Mike,
    How are things going with the AWD project? Anything new? I decided to piece mine back together so I can start a thread.
    The emails and calls are getting ridiculous.
    I'm not sure if I'm going to post on it until I'm completely done but, I'm making some great progress and I may have it up and running within a month maybe sooner.
    Anyways, just wanted to see how things are going.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] Good to hear you’re making progress, I'm still trying to collect some parts, so far no one has come through and there just aren't many to be found here in So Cal.
    Once I get the drive shafts and driven hubs (I'm going to see if they are adaptable to the discs), I'll be able to move forward. Right now, just in a holding pattern...

    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Well at least you're sticking with it.
    I did a search an car-part and found some awd stuff but I know shipping can get pricey.

    Anyway, keep me updated on your research.

    Thanks,
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] Another board member might be getting me what I need.
    If that falls through I'll have to keep looking.
    Since all I need is the driven hubs and the drive shafts (just the flanges on the front/back), I don't think shipping will be too bad, especially since I can run it through our UPS account.

    Mike

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Hey Mike how's it going. Anything new on the AWD project? Also, you makin it out to SDAC this year?

    Anyway, just wanted to stay in touch and let you know that I posted some pics of the rear-end, just go hear: http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n...%20Omni%20GLH/.

    I hyperlinked it at the TD forum also.

    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] I've got all the Van parts I need in order to start, heck on most parts I've got spares!
    I'll be picking up a welder in the next week or so as well, so it should get interesting soon.
    Nowhere near the progress you've made though, nothing in the car as yet...
    How about you? I imagine getting the rear diff in was a bit of a pain, what did you do with the fuel tank?
    Looks like it ended up a a bit further back than OE, or that might just be an optical illusion caused by the forward sloping shocks... Did you have the axles shortened? If so, was it expensive?, how’s the fit?
    I'll be a bit surprised if you didn't have to shorten them!

    My hope/plan is to have a driving AWD Omni before the end of summer, it won't look pretty, but it will be functional!

    As for SDAC, I'm a bit up in the air just yet, it is my hope that I'll be able to afford the trip this year, but it is not a sure thing just yet, but leaning that way.

    Keep up the good work!

    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Actually, the diff wasn't that bad. I mounted it to a 5" wide u channel that I welded to the car's rear subframe.
    This and the panhard bracket were the only things I welded to the car's body.
    There was little welding done to the car's body.
    Most of the welding was done to the rear suspension setup. And, as you can see, I used the dedion suspension. Same as Shelby used in the AWD Daytona concept and same as the Caravan setup.
    The fuel tank was mounted all the way to the back behind the diff. It had to be cut and welded to fit.
    You don't see it in the pics because it was removed.

    The axles were shortened by the Driveshaft shop. I used the stock measurements from drum-to-drum to get the correct axle length. They charged me $200 each to shorten. They also put them together for me.

    The struts were homemade by me. I used regular Ram pickup shocks and I added the springs/sleeves and I fabbed an upper plate to mount to the stock seats. I wanted to use the stock strut mounts and stock trailing arm connections.

    Well, I'm looking forward to seeing some progress on your project. Glad you're staying with it.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] The rear suspension looks quite beefy! Is it as heavy as it looks?
    I'm going to see if I can get away with modding factory pieces, but if that's going to be unsafe or significantly inferior, I'll fab something.
    The diff looks a bit low, that might be the angle the picture was taken at, but I also noticed the angle of the 1/2 shafts went up not down, was this a necessary evil to fit the drive shaft without cutting the tunnel? Or is that just how it worked out?

    BTW, I love the fact neither of us listened to all the naysayers! AWD FTW!! Can't wait to get my garage finished so I can make some REAL progress! Keep up the good work, you are encouraging me with your effort!

    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] I designed the suspension to handle some serious torque.
    I used my experience with ladder bars with old school v8 rear drive setups and adapted them to the dedion design.
    The ladder bars contribute to antisquat, which is good for drag racing. The dedion is for ride quality which is good for street driving.
    The suspension basically has the best of both worlds. It also allowed me to use the stock strut connections up top as well as the stock trailing arm connections so we don't have to hack up the body. I don't have the exact numbers but I recall my design wasn't that much heavier than the stock pieces.
    I still can't find my notes.
    The more I research this the more I find out how strong the stock design really is. And I'm talking seriously strong! not just 11 or 12 second strong.
    Don't let the pics fool you, the diff actually sits higher than the stock trailing arm setup and yet I still maintain stock ride height. Also, the pics don't do justice how massive that rear-end looks in the back of that little Omni. It dwarfs anything from Subaru, or Mitsubishi.
    The angle of the shafts do angle a bit but that is a non-issue. The angle actually allows for the lube to disperse more evenly on the CV joints. And, they are significantly thicker than stock and are chrome moly steel.
    I here you about the naysayers. My local TDers have been following this project since I started it several years ago.
    But...my personal life became unstable to say the least and I had to stop for a few years. I had to leave it outside for several winters to the point that I almost forgot about it. Things are going good now and I should have it up and running well before SDAC. I also can't wait to see your finished product. I can't wait to see what the future holds for AWD turbo Mopars with several people taking on the project. I believe before it's all said and done we WILL have the ultimate sleepers!
    Carlos

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Hey Mike how's it going.
    Just wanted to link you to a short video clip of the Omni. I'll have more soon. Check it out.
    http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n...AWDOmnivid.flv
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] That is fantastic!! Were all four wheels off the ground? I assume so, otherwise some kind of LSD would be on the menu! I really gotta hand it to you, not only are you AWD, but also 2.4! You pretty much skipped to the end of my project!

    Right now I'm just catching up on a lot of basic maintenance.
    I got the new engine in (complete with VNT) and the new auto with the Quaife, though right now it doesn't make enough power to need even that! I'll be working on that part...
    I really didn't think doing a TII conversion with an auto would be this difficult, but the 1st time always is, almost no matter what is being done!
    So far I've done the complete TII conversion, and 4-wheel discs upgrade, but then the heater core took a dump (right on my feet!), so out came the dash, now I'm debating replacing the windshield...
    That and now I'm fixing the cluster, steering wheel (Shelby wheel), turn signal, map light, well, you get the picture! My goal of AWD by the end of summer might have been a bit ambitious. But, when I'm done, it will be better than new.

    BTW, what did you do about the fuel tank? So far that seems to be the only real modification that will be required to get the diff in, though I am using the larger diff... Anyway, good work! I'd love to see more, especially driving!

    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Late for work I'll reply later, but I relocated the tank to the rear and I'm starting a thread with more pics, vids and more info.
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] I was in a hurry earlier so I couldn't write much.
    Anyway, I removed the spare tire bulge and added sheet metal to cover the hole.
    It had to be done to make room for the rear diff. I had to cut part of the fuel tank and move it to the rear.
    This weekend I'm taking it to work and put it on the alignment rack and I'll be taking more pics and videos, everyone's interested in the underneath.

    So stay tuned.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] I see, well, I was hopeful that I would be able to retain the spare tire well, it really looks/ed like it would fit, but I don't see a way to keep the tank so regardless of what I do in back the tank has to move... I'm thinking about using one of the wheel well tanks from ATL, they weren't too expensive when I sold them at the Earl's store and might be a little easier to work with...
    Guess I'll have to get all the mundane crap out of the way and get to it!
    I'm really glad to hear it's rolling, hopefully there won't be any nasty surprises, though there always are a few!

    Later,

    Mike

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Yeah there's a lot of questions that need answered but hopefully we can get answers as I start to beat on it.

    Keep up the project I'd really like to see what others can come up with, it'll only help all of us out in the end.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] I couldn't agree more! In fact, I'm very interested in any unexpected issues you had along the way. So far it sounds like the issues were pretty much expected and planned for, if there were some that took you by surprise, I'd love to know about them so I can be sure to take a different approach, or at least not fling wrenches across the garage!
    I'll tell you this much, if I get it all together to my liking, we'll have to race each other at the next SDAC! I fully expect to have complete reliability, well, at least as good as OE!

    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] The only major thing I changed was not using the early rear end setup with the torque tube. I had it all planned on paper to use that one. Then I decided it was easier and a lot lighter to go with the later rear.
    The later setup however is a lot more difficult to find and that's one of the drawbacks of using that.

    I'll hold you to that matchup. Who knows, maybe it'll be the first AWD TD drag race with both cars in the 10's LOL
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] 10s would be great, but I think you're way ahead of me in the engine development side of things!
    I plan on starting with an 8V, then a hybrid. I kind of want to see what I can do with the more common tech, then blow it out of the water with the 16V! Though I do have access to LOADS of nitrous!

    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] Well, I don't want to discourage you with the 8 valve engine but I couldn't get the PTU to fit with it. You'd have to do some major grinding to the block. Just wanted to let you know in case you got really deep into it.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin]Thanks for the heads-up, I'm not above grinding if need be... I'm curious what part was interfering?
    I plan on doing a mock-up anyway, but forewarned is forearmed!

    Mike
    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] When you mount the PTU to the trans, the PTU casing hits the block in a major way. I couldn't remember how much but I know it was significant, even the pan had to be ground. Anyway, if you don't mind the grinding then it may not be an issue. I just can't remember if the grinding was enough to hurt the integrity of the block.
    Carlos
    [QUOTE=zin] Sounds like I need to do some mocking up! Wonder why the 2.4 doesn't have a problem, or did it?
    I could see a "V" type engine having more clearance as the rear bank would angle away, but if one I-4 works, why not the other?...
    It might have something to do with the trans too, I'll be using the 413 to start (I think), but the 604 with an auto-stick controller is my ultimate goal. Guess I'll be finding out pretty soon!

    Mike

    [QUOTE=lotsaboost] I believe the common block hit because there's extra bulk at the bottom where the pan mates.
    The 2.4 uses the bedplate for strength and allows for a narrower block.
    There's still some grinding with the 2.4 but it's minimal.
    You can't even tell it's been ground off.
    Carlos
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." - Patrick Henry

    Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
    - Edmund Burke

  15. #515
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Holy Sh!t, my eyes are tired and I just skimmed all that. Pretty good recap tho, gotta admit!

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  16. #516
    turbo addict
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by EZEILL View Post
    This is going to be one part that will be a problem, because I keep getting conflicting information. I suppose the only thing that will 100% verify what I need to do would be if the current owner were to take the parts apart and could the teeth. The pictures on Carlos' photobucket lead me to believe the rear diff he used is geared 3.45 based on the tag thats on the side of the unit.
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ect&highlight=

    I plan on pulling and disassembling the 01 caravan rear I have in the van at some point for documenting purposes. My thread above has pictures of the disassembled PTU and info on making it work with the transmission.

  17. #517
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Quote Originally Posted by moparman76_69 View Post
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ect&highlight=

    I plan on pulling and disassembling the 01 caravan rear I have in the van at some point for documenting purposes. My thread above has pictures of the disassembled PTU and info on making it work with the transmission.
    Did you give detailed information about the gearing of the front parts in your thread after you had excitedly reassembled the front diff? Also googling has lead me to think the 2001-2004 and possibly 1991+ final drive ratio is 3.43, this gear ratio thing is annoying to figure out. One person saying this parts ratio doesn't matter, another saying the rear has to match/be close to the fronts ratio. The only responses I feel we can trust would be from those who have completed the builds, like Carlos. No offense intended.

  18. #518
    turbo addict
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    There are 2 completed AWD 5 speed swaps and neither have required a custom rear diff ratio. I still have the 3.77 factory ratio in the transmission because I kept the original 5 speed's ring gear.

  19. #519
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Currently trying to search through https://www.factorychryslerparts.com/ to find the parts that I need. Mostly certain individual pieces. Considering the fact that I am basically doing the same build as Carlos, minus the 2.4 engine, I know which rear diff to get but need to sort out the differential assembly he used in the transmission. Then the axles, drive shaft, and suspension.

  20. #520
    Garrett booster
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    Re: Allwheel Drive Omni GLH SRT4

    Geez, just a little bit of research is revealing quite a bit. For example, the plate that attaches the ptu to the trans fits 341 Chrysler vehicle varients from 1991-2012. Finding the parts looks easier, yet more expensive this way...

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