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Thread: Mls head gasket leaking??

  1. #1
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor DBB mini's Avatar
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    Mls head gasket leaking??

    I tried this post on my project log. Gonna try it here hopefully get a reply. I have a problem with the coolant overflowing. Engine is not getting hot. Stays @ 180^. Engine is 2.5L hybrid, running the mopar mls gasket/sealant. Only when I hit high boost (18+psi) it will puke coolant into the catch can. If boost is on low setting(10psi) it's fine. Switch to high boost, hit it for a couple of seconds, pull over, has excess coolant in the catch can. I think the mls gasket is leaking cylinder pressure into the coolant. Any ideas?

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    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor DBB mini's Avatar
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Plugs read weird too. #1 is black #2 is almost white #3 is light gray #4 is brown paper bag

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    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    head is lifting under boost, have you tried torquing the head back to spec? i assume you have head studs.

  4. #4
    boostaholic
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    To be honest, I dont think studs are necessary. I ran 30 psi boost on one of my cars with bolts with no issue. Now it does sound like the head is lifting under boost. You can try re-torquing the head bolts to see if it fixes the issue, If not You will be doing a HG.
    I had the same issue on my Spirit RT once. Right after a dealer installed HG was done. It was fine at stock boost, But anything over 15 psi it lifted.

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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    I'm running ARP studs, yes I have double checked the torque on them. The ARP torque sheet said 65 if I used the supplied arp lube, which I did. I re-torqued the to ~72, still has the problem.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Same problem with the Masi motor in my GLHS, last track day it was puking coolant out of the catch can vent-even earned me a black flag when a cornerworker smelled the coolant Never did get hot and hasnt gotten any worse or happened again in the hundred or so miles since the track. I too am running the MLS. When the head comes off I am going to do what Simon does. Grind/drill the rivets out and copper spray coat each side of layer of gasket. That sounds like a good fix to me I'm still shocked that Simon came up with it

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Same problem with the Masi motor in my GLHS, last track day it was puking coolant out of the catch can vent-even earned me a black flag when a cornerworker smelled the coolant Never did get hot and hasnt gotten any worse or happened again in the hundred or so miles since the track. I too am running the MLS. When the head comes off I am going to do what Simon does. Grind/drill the rivets out and copper spray coat each side of layer of gasket. That sounds like a good fix to me I'm still shocked that Simon came up with it
    Yeah I'm gonna do that and add 2 more layers, on top and bottom, make it a 5 layer gasket.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Did you check your block with a straight edge? A lot of people over look that. A MLS isn't as forgiving as a composite gasket is for a block or head that's not perfectly flat.

    A.J.

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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
    Did you check your block with a straight edge? A lot of people over look that. A MLS isn't as forgiving as a composite gasket is for a block or head that's not perfectly flat.

    A.J.
    Yes and it was decked by the machine shop.

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    turbo addict
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Are you torquing to 72#s or 72# + 1/4 turn there is a big difference i torque the studs on my cars to 100 # and never had a problem but that is just me.

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    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor A.J.'s Avatar
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by DBB mini View Post
    Yes and it was decked by the machine shop.
    Okay, never mind then.

    Quote Originally Posted by bakes View Post
    Are you torquing to 72#s or 72# + 1/4 turn there is a big difference i torque the studs on my cars to 100 # and never had a problem but that is just me.
    ARP studs are suppose to be torqued to the spec supplied with the studs and no 1/4 turn. The 1/4 turn is for bolts.

    A.J.

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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by DBB mini View Post
    I'm running ARP studs, yes I have double checked the torque on them. The ARP torque sheet said 65 if I used the supplied arp lube, which I did. I re-torqued the to ~72, still has the problem.
    The production Buick V-6 stuff has head gasket problems like this. Everybody I know in the Buick world including myself torques the ARP studs or bolts to 80 ft lbs instead of the 65 ft lbs the instructions say

    The early instructions that came with the first set of studs I bought said 55 ft lbs with ARP lube Those gaskets blew out almost immediately

    Good Luck

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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by DBB mini View Post
    Yeah I'm gonna do that and add 2 more layers, on top and bottom, make it a 5 layer gasket.
    I'm running the Felpro MLS gasket with the extra 2 layers and ARP studs torqued to 80ft lbs. I always re-torque after a heat cycle and it's always lost a few ft. lbs. I also use the Mopar gasket sealant. I hate having to buy 2 head gaskets every time but I've never had a problem with pushing water into the over flow bottle yet, like I had with a Cometic gasket on my Mitsubishi.
    Before the Cometic lovers jump on me, I know they will work if the finish is right on the block and head but my machine shop must not be able to get it right because I have never got one to seal under high boost while other brands of mls gaskets have worked fine with the same finish.

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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Thanks for all the help guys. When I replace it I will torque it to 80lb/ft. I will run a 5 layer custom with copper spray sealant.

    I just got the head off. Bad news first, It was leaking cylinder pressure into the coolant jacket as I thought. Witness marks on the block and head confirm it. I didn't have the holes in the head gasket of #1 cylinder coolant passage punched out large enough. I am running the tstat on the end of the head(drivers side), and it created a hot spot on the #1 cyl. It actually "bubbled" the gasket where the coolant jacket is. Insane. I'll be punching them ALL out larger, more like cylinder #3 coolant restrictor. Now the bad news, #1 cylinder had oil in the chamber, possibly from the valve guide, but it caused some detonation and the venolia piston got hot by the valve relief, piston moved so much in that area that it kissed the head.

    Now the good news, I had really good leakdown #'s (~5%) and all the bores look fantastic!! So I'll be looking for one new piston, new rings for it, 2 new mls gaskets to make 1 good 5 layer gasket and a few more upgrades, then I'll be ready to punish the pavement again. The finishes look great but i'm going to run the profilometer on both the head and block to see what it reads. I'll check the head and block for warp as well.

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 2.216VTurbo's Avatar
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    I still order five pistons with every custom set. I have a couple on the shelf just standing at the ready if I have a tuning event and scorch one piston.

    AJ (no More Alan) 84 Rampage RT TIII/568 Quaife 87 GLHS dealer optioned Red 16V Masi/568/Quaife
    90 Masi 16V White/Ginger/Black
    89 TC Masi 16V Red/Ginger/Black
    86 GLHS #110 RoadRace Built 89 CSX-VNT Recaro Car
    89 Turbo Mini 'Woody' 85 GLHT 'RedBox'
    2014 Explorer DD'r 3.5Twin Turbo Ecoboost AWD and 500HP
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    I still order five pistons with every custom set. I have a couple on the shelf just standing at the ready if I have a tuning event and scorch one piston.
    Yeah thats smart. Now I feel like a dumbass for only ordering 4. Oh well, surely venolia or Cindy has one that checks close to the same diameter.

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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Looks like my mopar gasket is actually a 4 layer. 1 top, 1 bottom, 2 middle. I think I'll get 2 fel-pro's from advance.

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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.216VTurbo View Post
    Same problem with the Masi motor in my GLHS, last track day it was puking coolant out of the catch can vent-even earned me a black flag when a cornerworker smelled the coolant Never did get hot and hasnt gotten any worse or happened again in the hundred or so miles since the track. I too am running the MLS. When the head comes off I am going to do what Simon does. Grind/drill the rivets out and copper spray coat each side of layer of gasket. That sounds like a good fix to me I'm still shocked that Simon came up with it
    Thanks,
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    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by larryB View Post
    I'm running the Felpro MLS gasket with the extra 2 layers and ARP studs torqued to 80ft lbs. I always re-torque after a heat cycle and it's always lost a few ft. lbs. I also use the Mopar gasket sealant. I hate having to buy 2 head gaskets every time but I've never had a problem with pushing water into the over flow bottle yet, like I had with a Cometic gasket on my Mitsubishi.
    Before the Cometic lovers jump on me, I know they will work if the finish is right on the block and head but my machine shop must not be able to get it right because I have never got one to seal under high boost while other brands of mls gaskets have worked fine with the same finish.
    Cometic are junk.

    the proper finish helps seal the coolant and oil passages, but the reason why the cylinders fail is because Cometic has no real fire ring around the cylinders. They are sorta like running a copper headgasket with no O ring.
    Mitsubishis don't have very strong cylinder head decks so they flex. Nothing you can do to fix that short of O ring or filling the head or other things "studding coolant passages in head" which IMO doesnt work on mitus.

    If you are building a 4g and want a MLS gasket, use the Cosworth gasket.

    I know people here also rave about MP005 gaskets or whatever is the "nice" headgasket for 8 valves. IMO its complete junk. The fire ring doesnt wrap around the gasket so it gets pushed outwards. New felpro composites are much better and have copper wire inside the fire ring and a fire ring that wraps around the gasket so it won't push away from the cylinder.
    I also know 4g63 guys are installing steel wire into the Felpro composite to give an even stronger, more aggressive fire ring. I would use .035" welding wire as i found .030 was a bit too small after I took apart that motor.
    Of course many TDers still rely on their headgasket to be a fuse for bad/ghetto tuning.

  20. #20
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Mls head gasket leaking??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Cometic are junk.

    the proper finish helps seal the coolant and oil passages, but the reason why the cylinders fail is because Cometic has no real fire ring around the cylinders. They are sorta like running a copper headgasket with no O ring.
    Mitsubishis don't have very strong cylinder head decks so they flex. Nothing you can do to fix that short of O ring or filling the head or other things "studding coolant passages in head" which IMO doesnt work on mitus.

    If you are building a 4g and want a MLS gasket, use the Cosworth gasket.

    I know people here also rave about MP005 gaskets or whatever is the "nice" headgasket for 8 valves. IMO its complete junk. The fire ring doesnt wrap around the gasket so it gets pushed outwards. New felpro composites are much better and have copper wire inside the fire ring and a fire ring that wraps around the gasket so it won't push away from the cylinder.
    I also know 4g63 guys are installing steel wire into the Felpro composite to give an even stronger, more aggressive fire ring. I would use .035" welding wire as i found .030 was a bit too small after I took apart that motor.
    Of course many TDers still rely on their headgasket to be a fuse for bad/ghetto tuning.
    MP gaskets rock, I have YET to make one fail unless I leaned the crap out of it. Speaking of that, when I melted my pistons, the gasket is still holding,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

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