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Thread: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

  1. #1
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    After all the time taken up this year with other (more important) priorities I finally found some time to wrench on the Charger.

    Quick update of what I changed. I upgraded my valvetrain to the FWD Crane springs and MP Titanium retainers with MP keepers. I also tapped the other end of my fuel rail and added a second 500hp fuel pump and am now feeding the rail from both end......enough flow for 900WHP. After seeing Reeves max out his 72lb inj's I figured I better upgrade to 95lbers as well and I can now datalog to 45psi.

    So, after retuning on the stock cam I dropped in the F4. For those of you who don't know me, I have always been as concerned with the street drivability of my car as the raw performance. One of the reasons I have taken the stock cam and exhaust mani as far as I have is for this reason. Also, it has been a matter of debate for years in our community, wether or not a high lift/high duration cam will work better than a stocker in a high boost application, and let's face it, who runs more boost than me!

    My good friend Warren has been wanting me to drop this cam in for years because he believed it would net me the same kind of gains he saw.....3-4mph increase. Now that would be what, at least 30-40whp gain. After seeing the result of my 480whp dyno I was set on the cam being my next change. (because my peak hp rpm never went up even though my peak wtq did go up significantly)

    To the matter at hand......one of my biggest concerns, how bad was this thing going to idle? Was I going to have some iritating lope? I'm still using o2 correction, so I can't richen the idle to much to compensate. I fired it up and to my shock and surprize.....it idles smoother than it has in 4 years! My idle on the stock cam had gotten a little worse as the 95lb inj's were at .8 at idle and fluctuating to 1.2 inj P/W so I would get a slight up and down idle (not to bad though) the F4 cam moves so much more air at idle that the inj's are at 1.2-1.4 and there is no lope at all! This was the first indication that the cam may be here to stay.

    Next, I went out and (with my boost turned down a few lbs just to be safe) I checked my AFR's, cam deff needed way more fuel above 5000rpm. Was funny driving the car, I was worried about how much bottom end I was going to loose, but the Charger still felt zippy enough to bomb around (N/A) just felt real tame below 5000rpm. I had just had the car out on the stock cam and from 4000 up the car is insane......no Q. But the power of the F4 was so linier that it was an easy ride, then at 5200rpm or so it's like you hit a N20 switch.......and your gone! I checked my datta logger and my full spool with dump open (stock cam) was 3900rpm. I dropped the F4 in right where my stocker was, if my turbo didn't suffer in spool time I figured I'd leave it there. Datalogger showed full spool at 4000ish rpm.....close enough.

    Now there was 1 more run at the local track and it was this past wknd, I tested the F4 cam on Friday, richened the AFR's and figured I was GTG. You can read the details of what happened at the track in my other thread, but suffice to say the car picked up 2-3mph, I have surpassed the limits of my 4 puck clutch and it did it on 3 lbs LESS boost than I was running last year!

    Warren was right, properly set up, these cams loose nothing at higher boost and only GAIN you power! (big thanks to you buddy, for nudging me in this direction!) The F4 works in the Charger like it was made for my build, I feel like I've lost nothing and only gained....I want to thank Cindy and FWD for making a kick @$$ cam and I hope this settles the debate on wether cams work in our 8v cars! Oh ya, as soon as I get a new clutch that will handle the power I will still do the stock to F4 cam dyno comparo I was planning on doing.....stay tuned!
    Last edited by Shadow; 10-16-2009 at 03:34 PM.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor glhs727's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    it's about time...what took you so long?...
    FWD Performance is a performance shop with a significant investment in this market. We pride oursleves with a hard work ethic, friendly customer service, and honest business dealings with no hidden fees. FWD Performance, Real Race Products by Real Racers.

  3. #3
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by glhs727 View Post
    it's about time...what took you so long?...
    Ya Ya, Can you hook me up with a clutch that will handle 600WHP!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor rx2mazda's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Awesome Rob! I hope to be using my half of those injectors soon!
    Carroll

    SILVER, 85 GLH-R/T, TIII powered, Fueltech, ID1300's. PTE5857
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  5. #5
    turbo addict
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    nice job!

  6. #6
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    That's great,

    Curious to see what gains you make.

    I think the biggest debate is most put a cam in with crappy flowing heads, intake and ex manny so the cam does nothing, where you have a good flowing setup,
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  7. #7
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by rx2mazda View Post
    Awesome Rob! I hope to be using my half of those injectors soon!
    That was a timely purchase to say the least, and that 180 AN fitting I got from you really looks clean supplying the other side of my rail with fuel! Thanks again bro!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  8. #8
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    That's great,

    Curious to see what gains you make.

    I think the biggest debate is most put a cam in with crappy flowing heads, intake and ex manny so the cam does nothing, where you have a good flowing setup,
    Dont forget, Im still running the stock ported exhaust mani, and gains....the car was at least 70lbs heavier (didnt drain my rear tank) and picked up 2-3mph on 3lbs less boost! The car will dyno 30-40+WHP from the stock cam at the same boost level, I guarantee it!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  9. #9

    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Sorry Rob, I suppose now I owe you a new clutch. 136MPH on a slipping clutch!? Sheez, cut-it-out! Back about seven years ago when I told Mike Demoss of Forward Motion that I gained 4 MPH using one of FWD's 'big' roller cams, He thought I was smokin crack (I think alot of others think the same thing) Well ok so maybe I am smokin somethin, but you just validated my cam testing.
    One caveat though, there are certain things you must do to make them work, not just drop them in and expect miracles.(as you realize) And NO it doesn't involve nitrous.yukyuk, so don't spill the beans.

    Good going, keep up the good work. I wonder what it would have done if you had changed the cam timing?
    best 1/8 ET-6.16 sec. best 1/8 speed-119.70 Best 1/4 MPH 145.5, Best 1/4 ET 9.65 sec. 8 valve NO NITROUS!!

  10. #10
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Stramer View Post
    Sorry Rob, I suppose now I owe you a new clutch. 136MPH on a slipping clutch!? Sheez, cut-it-out! Back about seven years ago when I told Mike Demoss of Forward Motion that I gained 4 MPH using one of FWD's 'big' roller cams, He thought I was smokin crack (I think alot of others think the same thing) Well ok so maybe I am smokin somethin, but you just validated my cam testing.
    One caveat though, there are certain things you must do to make them work, not just drop them in and expect miracles.(as you realize) And NO it doesn't involve nitrous.yukyuk, so don't spill the beans.

    Good going, keep up the good work. I wonder what it would have done if you had changed the cam timing?
    I have to admitt, I never doubted your claims of what you gained, I just though I was running such high boost and the thought of making this kind of gain from an already 480whp platform seemed unreal. It's like I said before, 480 + cam + header = 560+WHP but how could it be that easy....no one has done it.....yet! I'll get around to testing the cam on the dyno, then I'll head back to the track and see what difference cam timing might make. Hard to imagine it could get any better than this though!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  11. #11

    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    glad to see you back in action. you have an amazing street car . can't wait to see what it does at the strip.

  12. #12
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Force Fed Mopar's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Time to change the ET/MPH in your sig That's cool, I always told people that the bigger cams work better the more boost you throw at them, nice to have some real world evidence.

    Just to clarify, were you running a stock roller cam before, or a stock slider cam?

  13. #13
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by Force Fed Mopar View Post
    Time to change the ET/MPH in your sig That's cool, I always told people that the bigger cams work better the more boost you throw at them, nice to have some real world evidence.

    Just to clarify, were you running a stock roller cam before, or a stock slider cam?
    Stock 88 turbo roller.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  14. #14
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by ohiorob View Post
    glad to see you back in action. you have an amazing street car . can't wait to see what it does at the strip.
    Thanks, been kind of freaky looking at the Charger all year and not doing anything! Now I just have to make sure I get down to the next SDAC to meet up with you guys!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  15. #15
    Banned Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Thanks, been kind of freaky looking at the Charger all year and not doing anything! Now I just have to make sure I get down to the next SDAC to meet up with you guys!
    SDAC 2011....CHI-town?!?!?

  16. #16
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Thanks for sharing Rob

  17. #17
    Hybrid booster
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Which fuel pumps are you running???

  18. #18
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by gasketmaster View Post
    Which fuel pumps are you running???
    dual S-60 pumps.



    Quote Originally Posted by gasketmaster View Post
    Thanks for sharing Rob
    No problemo. Just wait till I same-day-dyno this thing back to back against the stocker. Gonna be some wicked info there for sure!

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

  19. #19
    Rhymes with tortoise. Turbo Mopar Staff cordes's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Thanks for the report Rob. I appreciate the detail you provide.

  20. #20
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor Shadow's Avatar
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    Re: Charger LOVES the F4 Cam!

    Quote Originally Posted by cordes View Post
    Thanks for the report Rob. I appreciate the detail you provide.
    Thanks for the props, I was a little worried some might find it long-winded.

    Robert Mclellan
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M
    10.04 @ 143.28mph (144.82 highest mph)
    Worlds fastest 8v MTX Shelby Charger
    Manitoba's Fastest 4cyl!
    8 valve, No Nitrous!
    New clutch combo is the SH!T!

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