Smoking problem driving me nuts!

[fastasleep]

Blue smoke! Here is what it is doing:
When I start it up, as soon as the cylinders get hot enough to burn oil, the smoke starts.
It is smoking near all the time now, although after a drive it doesn't seem to smoke too bad when at stop signs and lights.
When starting up after it has sat WHILE UP TO TEMP., the thing smokes like a freight train.
I have developed a small rear main leak.
I changed to 5W-40 oil with Lucas additive (which made the cold oil pressure rise to 75 psi). It goes down to around 52 psi when warm, 22-ish when idling warm.
What I have checked:
The piston tops (peeping through the spark plug hole) look as clean as when I brushed them off and put the head on about 1500 miles ago.
There are no wet spots in any position on the piston tops.
There is NO oil or residue in the bottom I/C hose.
When I pulled the downpipe, the swingvalve was TOTALLY dry. O2 looked great (NO moisture).
I pulled the VC and all of the valve seals appeared to be intact.
The spark plugs are not oily; there is a recent pic of them in my gallery. They are a nice tan.
I am getting no detonation that I can hear and the van pulls well.
I just drained my catch can, there is nothing spilling over.

Any ideas guys, this is driving me crazy! Import Showdown is tomorrow and I at least wanted to drive it there!

-Les

[turbovanman²]

If you get on it hard, does it get worse or ?

All I can think of based on your problems is a bad guide/seal or the turbo.

Maybe let it sit overnight, start it for a few minutes then drop the DP and have alook.

[fastasleep]

When I get on it hard it does not get worse; I can't see a trail of smoke behind me. I will try that in the morning, Simon, and let you know.
BTW, the guides were changed before I put it all back together. I just changed the springs, so I am thinking that I must have messed up a seal, but how can I tell?

-Les

[Skibbe]

Tell the smoke to take the steering wheel out of your pants.

[fastasleep]

Tell the smoke to take the steering wheel out of your pants.

de dum dum.........I'm here all week! Try the veal! That reminded me of that joke. Pretty funny, Skibbe.

-Les

[GLHNSLHT2]

+1 on the turbo

[DBB mini]

Did you try a compression/leakdown test?

[fastasleep]

I have 170 psi compression across the board. Is it possible the rings are bad even if I have 170 psi compression? There are no clean spots at 12 and 6 o'clock.
I REALLY don't think it is the turbo. The turbo swingvalve is COMPLETELY dry. The lower I/C hose is COMPLETELY dry. The turbo has less than 5,000 miles on it (if I am remembering the miles rbryant put on it correctly).

-Les

[Twisted Noodle]

I would also look to make sure the vent (to the catch can) isn't plugged or crimped off. You said nothing is spilling over right? Did you mean nothing is in the catch can? I know I had a problem with my vent being too small. I switched to a larger hose and my smoking problems went away.
Does the dipstick try to eject?

[DodgeZ]

try to do a long hard decel. Like, run up the RPMs in 3rd and decel with it still in gear. I am guessing it is a 5speed. Go down a big hill or use the brakes to act like you are going downhill. This will put a lot of vacuum in the cylinders. This helps show valve smoking issues.

How is your pcv hooked up?

[turbovanman²]

I have 170 psi compression across the board. Is it possible the rings are bad even if I have 170 psi compression? There are no clean spots at 12 and 6 o'clock.
I REALLY don't think it is the turbo. The turbo swingvalve is COMPLETELY dry. The lower I/C hose is COMPLETELY dry. The turbo has less than 5,000 miles on it (if I am remembering the miles rbryant put on it correctly).

-Les

Oil rings don't show up in compression tests but dirty piston tops prove its not the rings.

[Stinkbox]

Its the turbo. So what if you find no oil in the swingvalve. It burns it all off and leaves it looking dry. its the oil seal on the turbine side.

[DanC]

Another symptom you'd see if it's rings is you'd blacken the oil very quickly, within a couple hundred miles. Sometimes you'll even get a "wet" oil cap - like wet with moisture - when you take it off cold. I know, sounds weird.

It's probably turbo, from your description, and probably the exhaust side. Is there any play in the wheel? That's not the only indicator, unfortunately.

A silly question ... how long have you been running the car this way? I.e. is there a possibility that your cat had a bunch of oil in it and it's still burning off?

Some tests you can try, just brainstorming:

-Pull the lower IC hose off, start the car (if you can filter the air that's going into the engine somehow that's the safe way to go), and rev it up to get air blowing out of the turbo. If it's leaking on the inlet side, it'll blow an oily mist out the hose.

-with the engine cold, pull the downpipe off, and pull the timing belt off. Using a strong and patient friend, have them spin the oil pump shaft until there's oil pressure, and keep on spinning it. See if you can get any oil drips out of the turbine side.

[fastasleep]

I have my PCV hooked up like this: nipple off of the back of the valve cover going to catch can. Line going from catch can to pipe on inlet side of the turbo. There is no vent on the catch can; should there be? Also, I am running a stock (unvented) oil cap, so basically, I don't have a way for the vc to be relieved (air) to allow the oil to drain back? Could this be right? Maybe try a vented oil fill cap?

-Les

[fastasleep]

BTW, thanks for all of the suggestions and help, guys! I am going to try the oil pump prime suggestion if the vented oil fill cap doesn't work. I did start it and run it for only about a minute, then I shut it off and looked in the swingvalve. It was still dry. I was thinking that if the SV was not hot enough to burn oil yet, that if it was the turbo there would be unburned oil there, since it wasn't hot enough to burn it off, yet.

-Les

[DodgeZ]

your motor needs a vent for sure

[minigts]

I had the same problem, thought it was the turbo and even pulled the head to see. Kevin and I saw oil caked on two of the runner ports and two were dry. We both (I think) agreed that it was a bad pcv setup. I removed the vacuum from the manifold and the issue stopped. Now, you'll need vacuum on the valve cover, which is why running a vacuum before the turbo on the intake side will help keep a vacuum source on the valve cover at idle and under load. I don't have the best setup to use an example, but my car doesn't burn oil like that anymore.

[fastasleep]

It does not try to eject the dipstick so the case isn't pressurizing. I pulled the oil fill cap off to simulate a vent on the VC and then started it. It did the same thing.
I am wondering about the turbo at this point. Nothing is pointing to it really, but I will try the oil pump priming method with the timing belt off and see if it is spitting anything. Ya know, I was wondering (actually posted about it) if my increased oil pressure (75 psi cold, 50'ish warm, 25 psi at idle when warm) may damage the seals on my turbo. I am going to change the oil back to 10W-30 and see if the smoke decreases.
I just have been spending so much time on my Challenge car that I have not have time to work on the van lately.

-Les

[turbovanman²]

I have my PCV hooked up like this: nipple off of the back of the valve cover going to catch can. Line going from catch can to pipe on inlet side of the turbo. There is no vent on the catch can; should there be? Also, I am running a stock (unvented) oil cap, so basically, I don't have a way for the vc to be relieved (air) to allow the oil to drain back? Could this be right? Maybe try a vented oil fill cap?

-Les

Vented oil cap or vent the catch can.

It does not try to eject the dipstick so the case isn't pressurizing. I pulled the oil fill cap off to simulate a vent on the VC and then started it. It did the same thing.
I am wondering about the turbo at this point. Nothing is pointing to it really, but I will try the oil pump priming method with the timing belt off and see if it is spitting anything. Ya know, I was wondering (actually posted about it) if my increased oil pressure (75 psi cold, 50'ish warm, 25 psi at idle when warm) may damage the seals on my turbo. I am going to change the oil back to 10W-30 and see if the smoke decreases.
I just have been spending so much time on my Challenge car that I have not have time to work on the van lately.

-Les

Your oil pressure is fine,

Going back to 10w30 might make it worse, thinner oil.

[fastasleep]

Vented oil cap or vent the catch can.




Your oil pressure is fine,

Going back to 10w30 might make it worse, thinner oil.

True, but the smoke became worse when I changed the oil to the thicker stuff........
Hell, maybe I'll just build a forged short block and have the turbo rebuilt (and the .46 trim wheel put on at the same time) while I have the engine down.

Simon, have you ever dealt with a Northstar engine? I have to send you pics of a new project of mine

-Les