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Thread: Head Compatibility

  1. #1
    Garrett booster
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    Head Compatibility

    I recently added a non cross-drilled head to a cross drilled block using a MP005 "head gasket. The Vehicle is a 89 Lebaron GTC 2.5 GTC. When I fired her up, she's still smoking. Leaking antifreeze into the cylinder head again. I have replaced hedad gaskets before with success but haven't used a non cross drilled head on a cross-drilled block before. I am wondering is this fubar'ed the head gasket. I had the head to a shop and it checked out fine no warpage. The only other thing I can attribute this to is a damaged gasket but I was very careful replacing the head... Thoughts on the matter are appreciated...
    If I pull the head off again, I am going to get a crossdrilled. I should have just bought one of the chinese castings and been done with the project but, shoulda' coulda' woulda' ....
    Thanks
    Bill

  2. #2
    turbo addict
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    I've been told, though I've never done it, that you can use a non cross drilled head on a cross drilled block just fine. The 005 is the non cross drilled gasket and should have worked.

    How long did you let the car run after reassembling everything? In short, are you sure it wasn't just burning out what was left in the cylinders from tearing it down? And, I don't mean this to sound insulting because someone really could take it the wrong way, did you follow the proper torque pattern and sequence when you reinstalled the head?

  3. #3
    turbo addict JDAWG's Avatar
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    that gasket and head is fine on that block, did the gasket get knicked? (like when my dumbass dropped a head on it one time)

  4. #4
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    You can mix and match heads and blocks, the 005 gasket connects all the cd's. Its possible you have a cracked or damaged block, bad turbo if your sure you've burned out all the coolant and the new head is good, you didn't damage the head or gasket.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
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  5. #5
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    You can mix and match heads and blocks, the 005 gasket connects all the cd's. Its possible you have a cracked or damaged block, bad turbo if your sure you've burned out all the coolant and the new head is good, you didn't damage the head or gasket.
    How common is it though the block would crack? cacapia!
    When I had the turbo I inspected for clearences and it was good... very clean actually. I'm going to pull it off again and take a closer look. The only issue is that if I have a cracked block, the only way to tell is to pull it and send it off to the shop for inspection.
    Oh well. This is why they call it a hobby. Keeps me on the right path...
    Thanks for your helpful response.
    Bill

  6. #6
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by chilort View Post
    I've been told, though I've never done it, that you can use a non cross drilled head on a cross drilled block just fine. The 005 is the non cross drilled gasket and should have worked.

    How long did you let the car run after reassembling everything? In short, are you sure it wasn't just burning out what was left in the cylinders from tearing it down? And, I don't mean this to sound insulting because someone really could take it the wrong way, did you follow the proper torque pattern and sequence when you reinstalled the head?
    I let it get hot. IT should only take about 10 minutes to burn the residual out... I followed the torque sequence. Too much work and time to frog it up at the last minute.

  7. #7
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by JDAWG View Post
    that gasket and head is fine on that block, did the gasket get knicked? (like when my dumbass dropped a head on it one time)
    Man I hope that is what it is from the previous posts... Dont want to pull the block out. Hell, I do that and I'll drop a 340 into her...with modification of the subframe...

    I'll come back and post when I get to the bottom. Thanks for your help!
    Bill

  8. #8
    The moderately moderate moderator Turbo Mopar Staff
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Just to back up what was said, you can use a non cd head on a cd block. I had the same setup in my Omni with no issues. Has to be a gasket or cracked head or block. Yes, a head can be cracked and be called good. I've seen it happen more than once. Something to consider.
    Bryan
    86 GLHS #161, 2016 Impala
    SDAC National Member, SDAC Buckeye Chapter Member

    A man has got to know his limitations.....

  9. #9
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragula View Post
    I let it get hot. IT should only take about 10 minutes to burn the residual out... I followed the torque sequence. Too much work and time to frog it up at the last minute.
    It can take hours to burn coolant out of the exhaust.

    Have you removed the plugs and looked inside to see if you can see coolant? Are you losing coolant? Is it bubbling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragula View Post
    Man I hope that is what it is from the previous posts... Dont want to pull the block out. Hell, I do that and I'll drop a 340 into her...with modification of the subframe...

    I'll come back and post when I get to the bottom. Thanks for your help!
    Bill
    V8's suck, alot of work to get not much more power, plus you make the front end heavier. If your going to do a RWD, do a hybrid or 2.4 engine,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  10. #10
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Has anyone ever converted their turbo to a TBI? Kind of having second thoughts about pulling all that "stuff" off again and putting it back together... what a pain in the a$$ and time killer... I got the car for $600 and spent about $400 so far. Losing interest.

    I haven't taken it apart yet put put a few extra lbs on the head bolts. There aren't any bubbles in the overflow but still pushing high amounts of moisture out the tail. Thinking about doing a compression test but not really sure this is going to give me any viable or usable information.
    Thoughts anyone?

  11. #11
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragula View Post
    Has anyone ever converted their turbo to a TBI? Kind of having second thoughts about pulling all that "stuff" off again and putting it back together... what a pain in the a$$ and time killer... I got the car for $600 and spent about $400 so far. Losing interest.

    I haven't taken it apart yet put put a few extra lbs on the head bolts. There aren't any bubbles in the overflow but still pushing high amounts of moisture out the tail. Thinking about doing a compression test but not really sure this is going to give me any viable or usable information.
    Thoughts anyone?
    Putting TBI stuff on won't fix your problem, plus you'll have to rewire it and the compression will be lower, so it will be a dog.

    Do you have a pressure tester? can you borrow one? Have you looked inside the cylinders for coolant? is it using coolant? Have you dropped the dp and had a look for coolant?
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  12. #12
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Putting TBI stuff on won't fix your problem, plus you'll have to rewire it and the compression will be lower, so it will be a dog.

    Do you have a pressure tester? can you borrow one? Have you looked inside the cylinders for coolant? is it using coolant? Have you dropped the dp and had a look for coolant?
    I can get a pressure tester. I guess it will give a general idea where the fluid is going. Pulled the plugs and dont see anything odd. What is "dp?"

  13. #13
    boostaholic
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    down pipe

  14. #14
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragula View Post
    I can get a pressure tester. I guess it will give a general idea where the fluid is going. Pulled the plugs and dont see anything odd. What is "dp?"
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/vb...&articleid=144
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  15. #15
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    it's not on that page... " DP " correct?

  16. #16
    turbo addict
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragula View Post
    it's not on that page... " DP " correct?
    pwnd

    It isn't on that page! But a DP is a down pipe. That is the exhaust pipe that comes off of the swing valve. The swing valve is the part that hangs off the exhaust/turbine side of the turbo that houses the waste gate.

    Here's a picture of the bottom side of a couple of swing valves:


    Simon is suggesting you undo the two bolts that hold the swing valve and the down pipe together and take a looksee in there. Those bolts though are likely rusted and you will break them or round off the head of the nut or the bolt. Luckily, these can still be had in the Help! section.

    Best of luck.

  17. #17
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragula View Post
    I had the head to a shop and it checked out fine no warpage. If I pull the head off again, I am going to get a crossdrilled. I should have just bought one of the chinese castings and been done with the project but, shoulda' coulda' woulda' ....
    Thanks
    Bill
    Did the shop run a hydro-stat test on the head or just check it for warpage? Nothing wrong with using a 2005 on your application. Done it 50 times at least building motors over the years.
    You don't want the Chinese aftermarket heads, they are horrible. They do have some new castings from New Zealand that are much better than the China castings.
    Todd

  18. #18
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    Question Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    Did the shop run a hydro-stat test on the head or just check it for warpage? Nothing wrong with using a 2005 on your application. Done it 50 times at least building motors over the years.
    You don't want the Chinese aftermarket heads, they are horrible. They do have some new castings from New Zealand that are much better than the China castings.
    Todd
    Sorry to ask what might be a dumb question but, what is a 2005. Is this a head from a 2005 motor? If so, a 2.4?
    Thanks
    Bill

  19. #19
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Oh ya' I took the head off and back to the shop. I told them to thoroghly check it again and they said it was cracked in several areas inside...?
    Anyhow, went to the "yard" and got another doner. This time the car was running and nothing wrong... taking it to the shop this weekend for checkup...

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff 135sohc's Avatar
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    Re: Head Compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by 4 l-bodies View Post
    They do have some new castings from New Zealand that are much better than the China castings.
    Todd
    Where can you buy those ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragula View Post
    Sorry to ask what might be a dumb question but, what is a 2005. Is this a head from a 2005 motor? If so, a 2.4?
    Thanks
    Bill
    '005' refers to the one type of Mopar performance headgasket.

    P4452005
    Carb, TBI and Turbo I

    P4452006
    Turbo II & 2.5 Turbo I

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