10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

[Vigo]

Then someday swap to a built 4 speed auto when money grows on trees.

Dont pay for a 3.0/604 core.. i got one here waiting for you to get around to it.

[Ondonti]

The last video here is one I seem to have forgotten to post. Stupid of me because the whole point of this thread was the 10:1 motor.
The motor was still being put together the night before the dyno day, which also happened to be the last night of racing for the year so I missed that
I did win the dyno day even on only 4 cylinders. 2nd and 3rd place were cars owned by the shop.

History...
Old Setup
24 pounds of boost on the street, dyno'd 500+ on 20psi. 5 minutes late to tech inspection so never got to run this tune at the track
http://www.streetfire.net/video/516w...uth_637493.htm
Illegal digital streetrace with #4 plug wire off, oops.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/400w...The_205383.htm
13psi and collapsed fuel filter = massive leanout, oh well, still raced (preplanned digital race).
http://www.streetfire.net/video/SR20...g72_197806.htm

Stock 1997 Caravan motor
11.9@117 on first pass, 16psi. Converted to E70 fuel
http://www.streetfire.net/video/90-J...-on_649313.htm
24psi street tune pulls. Stock headgaskets leak and push coolant. Lack of traction gives false impression that the fuel pump is able to handle a 1/4 mile pass.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/Dust...tor_681676.htm
11.5@125 22psi. Fuel pump is not able to keep up with E70 and high fuel pressure. Leans out on both passes at the top end. Stock ring gaps are too small and rings butt destroying 2 ringlands on 2nd pass. Slicks at the track show the weakness of street tuning with traction problems.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/The-...tor_687191.htm

190,000 mile 10:1 motor with heads/cams from built motor.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/The-...unk_701799.htm

New Fuel system (seen in this thread) Twin external Walbros, twin feed lines. No more fuel pump problems.
10:1 motor does NOT like OEM 3.0 timing even with E70 fuel. Blows out TWO O rings and still makes 446whp on 4 good cylinders, 18 pounds of boost, and 10.5:1 air fuel ratio. The rich situation actually is the reason the first dyno pull does not record because the motor bogged and made less then 50whp (automatically stops the dyno from recording). Guessing HP on the first pull was 550-600 but no way to tell. Obviously not a safe tune! The crankshaft also cracked but does not seize up until after installing megasquirt.
The whole video is filmed on 225/50r15 BFG drag radials which I do not feel are safe when spinning 3rd. They grab and let go over and over which causes the car to dodge side to side. I prefer normal tires which don't grab so hard while spinning.
http://www.streetfire.net/video/101-...and_709639.htm

I have videos of Megasquirt starting and maybe one of it driving but we are not sure where they are since a computer that had the files is currently down. I will see if I can get those. I was reallly excited for MS to start on my first attempt, but not excited that we broke the crankshaft on the dyno weeks before while still using n/a Electronics.

The one good thing about Megasquirt is that my cams are no longer advanced 4 degrees to help low rpm HP so top end power should now shine even more. 9 pounds on Megasquirt with zero'd cams feels like 15 pounds with the stock ECU and advanced cams (equal wheelspin in 3rd).

[black86glhs]

Brent, I thought the gaps would have been too small to make them push together and break a ring land?

[Ondonti]

Too small? When I took apart my 10:1 motor to regap the rings, one of the top rings was as small as .012" while another was .019" or so.
The .019 would probably take considerable amounts of power, but the .019" cylinder would defintily be the first to fail if it ever got hot and saw a little detonation.
Also, 8.9:1 compression = more heat so you need even bigger gaps for the same boost level. It also means you need less spark advance to avoid detonation combining together with butting ringlands.


the problem is that factory tolerances on the rings are really sloppy.
Ed kelly has pointed out that he prefers a higher quality set of rings but I feel at the minimum, regapping the rings is a good idea for durability. Regapping seems to turn a 400whp timebomb into a 400whp warrior and capable of making much more HP with a good tune.
The regapped 10:1 motor cracked the crankshaft instead of blowing a ringland. Meaning that if I take detonation with megasquirt (use proper ignition timing) that a regapped 3.0 can handle a lot of power reliably.

[Vigo]

Brent, i witnessed the drag radial issue in another short wheelbase fwd, an overpowered festiva. The way they would let go one side at a time made the thing practically a deathtrap.

Good to see all your videos in one place. I have been following the build for years now but even i have a hard time keeping the info and sequence of the videos right.

[black86glhs]

Too small? When I took apart my 10:1 motor to regap the rings, one of the top rings was as small as .012" while another was .019" or so.
The .019 would probably take considerable amounts of power, but the .019" cylinder would defintily be the first to fail if it ever got hot and saw a little detonation.
Also, 8.9:1 compression = more heat so you need even bigger gaps for the same boost level. It also means you need less spark advance to avoid detonation combining together with butting ringlands.


the problem is that factory tolerances on the rings are really sloppy.
Ed kelly has pointed out that he prefers a higher quality set of rings but I feel at the minimum, regapping the rings is a good idea for durability. Regapping seems to turn a 400whp timebomb into a 400whp warrior and capable of making much more HP with a good tune.
The regapped 10:1 motor cracked the crankshaft instead of blowing a ringland. Meaning that if I take detonation with megasquirt (use proper ignition timing) that a regapped 3.0 can handle a lot of power reliably.

Further up in your long post you said the ring gaps were too large. That is why I asked if you meant too small, that's all. I see what you were saying now.

[Ondonti]

Bryan, fixed the typo.

Adam, well I have a lot of old videos on streetfire running 13's and 12's but they are not very interesting as every single 13 second run had a slipping clutch and I never posted up my 114mph 12 second run because it blew out a freeze plug that was improperly installed (big cloud of steam at the top end of the track). That video was hilarious because the announcer had time to say "go man go' between 1st and 2nd gear. Terrible driving on my part.
That is when I learned that even if I had decent power, bad driving would ruin track results. At the time I didnt know how much I could hold the car back by being a bad driver. I made my inbetween gear bogs worse by shifting very slowly. I shifted my n/a 3.0 quite well but the turbo car causes more anxiety.

For my Stock motor 11's, I powershifted (had been practicing in my 3.0 spirit) and had a HUGE results difference. Still my shifts could be quicker. There are people who lift shift and probably shift in half the time I do when powershifting.

No money at all right now and I have to get some scholastic things done before I can have anymore fun.

[black86glhs]

Even if your driving is bad, still nice times on a stock 3.0 engine. I say nice work.

[Vigo]

At the time I didnt know how much I could hold the car back by being a bad driver.

I had a pretty rude awakening when i raced the Aries at GRM. Oddly enough, the first time i drag raced that car was AT the GRM event. I could only manage a 14.5, when the car felt like a low 13 car. I trapped 98 mph with 6 psi in 1st and 2nd gears and a 100F heat index. I've seen other TD's run 13.1 on 98, not to mention the fact that if i could run 17 psi in EVERY gear when its less than 100 degrees out, i might trap over 100. Poop!

Even when i get slicks, im sure there will be some learning curve involved! Luckily i have not really broken anything substantial yet.

[thedon809]

For my Stock motor 11's, I powershifted (had been practicing in my 3.0 spirit) and had a HUGE results difference. Still my shifts could be quicker. There are people who lift shift and probably shift in half the time I do when powershifting.

Automatic outta fix that up easy.

[Ondonti]

Automatic outta fix that up easy.

Haha, I get that a lot. Might as well keep working on the driving now and dream about a fancy auto when I sleep

At the track I don't have terrible traction problems. There are things I can improve mechanically to help the 60' and weight transfer on launch and shifts but most of the lost time is in a slow shift.
My car squats a lot even with air shocks in the back and I am pretty sure its because of the air shocks lifting the car off the springs. had 2 different attempts at limiting straps fail (meant to be easily disconnected with minimum installation effort, but that just equaled easily breakable).
I seriously doubt financial ability to finish AWDing the car but even if I did I would be pulling the driveshaft in order to keep getting FWD times (at least in theory).

The high 10 second honda I race in my last video makes similar power/weight but just drives much better (and he has more experience).

[Ondonti]

Crankshaft from the 11.54@125 motor, bearings from the junkyard. Swapped 2 good rods onto my 10:1 pistons because it was cheaper then resizing.

Not only does the block have 190,000 miles, I found out that the previous owner put dirt into the radiator. One of the coolant drain plugs was completely blocked. Over a cup of dirt came out of the block. Never noticed this before because I didn't try to drain the block by removing the block plugs the first time I went through the motor for regapping.
Chipped the bottom of the skirt off piston number 6 when the crank bent. Don't really care to worry about it.

Used Felpro composite headgaskets because I didn't feel like trying something interesting or dealing with leaks, or paying for MLS.

Only money into this build =
$15 two rods swapped
37$ two headgaskets
8$ 1G DSM headbolts from junkyard to use for Main Girdle bolts
Bearings pocked from a motor someone had already torn apart/ruined.
$28 freaking dollars for oil pump gaskets. I bought the last 2 in the western US and had them express shipped (bribe them 9 dollars to put it on the dealer delivery the day I called instead of 3 days after I called).

The DSM headbolts that I installed in the mains are torqued at 80ft/lb. My last crankshaft bent when the stock bolts stretched and the girdle flexed in the middle allowing the crankshaft to bend way more then normally possible.
The DSM headbolts are about 3mm longer and get a lot more thread engagement plus they are probably a much better material. 1G headstuds are not TTY and tend to be better then the standard ARPs.

[Ondonti]

I also completely rewired the car using my own fuse blocks and relays. No more chrycrap ECU.

This is an early picture of my main relay/fuse board. Drivers side. I added another switched power fuse block behind the center of the dash for my Megasquirt/boost controller/zeitronix/tach.

Biggest problem with the car right now is the PC680 battery that I can't afford to replace is pretty much nuked from the stock wiring draining it for the last 2 years (and constantly finding it way below 10v.


I still have a lot of cleanup and loom work to do. I was cleaning up the wires near the main board and then after working on that I had to just throw the car/wires together so I could make the car show this last weekend.

I managed to wire the fan backwards and freaked out when it started overheating on a slow road when I had the fan on. Oops.

I Want an Fidle circuit (also used for rad van relay) for my Megasquirt II so I don't have to use a switch. Its been 8 months and I don't really remember where I am at with megasquirt and don't feel like working on the tune right now. Sucking fuel like crazy and some of the settings seem wrong. I have not touched anything on the megasquirt because I just wanted to get to the show. I did hit 8000 or so rpms accidentally when I found out my shifter was not adjusted properly. I have had that happen quite a few times before so i am good about getting the clutch back in before the motor spins up completely. I get bad shifting habits from my Spirit because it has auto trans seats that have armrests that make it impossible to make "normal" shifts with thanks to the existence of your elbow. Been 8 months since I have driven this car.

EGO (AFR) correction is on above 2200 rpms (not sure why its set that way) and the car does super annoying surging above 2200 rpms when not WOT (even at 99% throttle it surges). For some reason its running super rich so EGO make it bounce between 11:1 and 17:1 as it overcorrects from what it sees as being way too rich for the AFR map I built.

I swore the EGO correction was on for all RPMs above idle and I don't remember it being so rich so I don't know if the required fuel settings (injector sizing etc) are messed up.

I have an "updated" tune/settings that I did in November but I never loaded it because the crankshaft seized. Now I don't remember what i had changed, what I thought might have been set incorrectly before, etc. I know I changed the megatune settings to allow autotune to function at all rpms/load levels. I messed with timing at low rpms and I don't remember my reasoning. Lot of other issues too. Now that the car is running I really need to deal with other things though. Still not spending time on any forums.

Grand National guy who knows me from the track wants to see me out there again but I don't really want to tune the car right now.

[shackwrrr]

WOOHOO. nice to see you fixing it up. I think your build is awesome and when I get out of college I am looking for a 3.0 car to build like this. I want to see what this thing can do with all the fuel it can get.

what progam do you use for megasquirt? Tunerstudio has an awesome autotune so you could get your <100% throttle tuned in. On your EGO feedback it sounds like a simple settings problem that could be fixed easily. Do you think you could send me your msq? I would love to take a look at it and have a setup for when I find a 3.0 car.

Well I see its changed since I was last on TS now you have to pay to get VE analyze live.

On the EGO try to lower the controller step size and lower your ignition step interval. Do you have it set to simple or pid control?

[Ondonti]

I think its on simple and 6 events but I have not actually looked at what is loaded on the ecu. I have different msq's on my laptop and not sure how that compares to the one on the ecu.
I didn't bring the laptop to the car show and didn't want to mess with it.

I don't even think the ecu type is set correctly lol. I swear its set to microsquirt.
When I get the MSQ sorted out then I can share it (at least pull the one off the ecu and save it).

I figured out how to make a car profile only after the crank seized up last year so things are all sorts of messed up.

[turbovanman²]

About time you got it running again,

Where are the carnage pics,

[shackwrrr]

sorry its been a while since I read up on the MS stuff. You need to make your ignition events per step higher to make the EGO correction more stable. Try setting it between 25-30.

[Reaper1]

Crankshaft from the 11.54@125 motor, bearings from the junkyard. Swapped 2 good rods onto my 10:1 pistons because it was cheaper then resizing.

Not only does the block have 190,000 miles, I found out that the previous owner put dirt into the radiator. One of the coolant drain plugs was completely blocked. Over a cup of dirt came out of the block. Never noticed this before because I didn't try to drain the block by removing the block plugs the first time I went through the motor for regapping.
Chipped the bottom of the skirt off piston number 6 when the crank bent. Don't really care to worry about it.

Used Felpro composite headgaskets because I didn't feel like trying something interesting or dealing with leaks, or paying for MLS.

Only money into this build =
$15 two rods swapped
37$ two headgaskets
8$ 1G DSM headbolts from junkyard to use for Main Girdle bolts
Bearings pocked from a motor someone had already torn apart/ruined.
$28 freaking dollars for oil pump gaskets. I bought the last 2 in the western US and had them express shipped (bribe them 9 dollars to put it on the dealer delivery the day I called instead of 3 days after I called).

The DSM headbolts that I installed in the mains are torqued at 80ft/lb. My last crankshaft bent when the stock bolts stretched and the girdle flexed in the middle allowing the crankshaft to bend way more then normally possible.
The DSM headbolts are about 3mm longer and get a lot more thread engagement plus they are probably a much better material. 1G headstuds are not TTY and tend to be better then the standard ARPs.

Aww..I already saw these pics! LOL Which oil pump gaskets are you talking about? I wouldn't think they would be NS1, so what's the deal on them?

[bakes]

Bent you setting any goals this year?

[Ondonti]

Oil Pump gaskets for the mitusbishi version block. I don't actually know if the diamante block is different for the oil pump then the 3000gt sohc 12 valve.

I just spun a bearing (pretty sure). I think the oil pump has not been supplying much oil at all. My mechanical gauge got messed up last fall when I was doing something with the interior and it may have been indicating 5 or less psi oil pressure. My idiot light was not going off tonight when I went for the drive but it flashed the first day I started it.

The Gauge has been reading 50 psi or so when "off" and after the motor warms up (runs 25psi or so when cold on 10w30) it ran super low on oil pressure at least if I assumed 50 was zero. Like 53!

The pump is 183 dollars and I don't know how much I like the idea of investing in a new one. The oil pump had 190,000 miles on it and well, its supposed to be replaced at 120k.

The thing that pisses me off is that I want to use this block because of the knock sensor on the block, but its more expensive and requires remote oil filter.


I changed the EGO correction to 10% from 30% (stopped surging so much, but I set it to 1 ignition event per change so I went the wrong direction there for smoothness), turned on automatic mixture control, and just went for a drive. It fixed up my values pretty good. I set it really aggressively so it changed my non boosted VE stuff between 1000-2000 rpms a lot. Took out fuel all over the place.
My required fuel was too low, i thought I was running 60psi fuel pressure but it was actually 50.

No Goals this year. I pretty much already met my goals by rewiring the whole car. I don't care about times at the track right now or dyno numbers.
The project I would like to do next WITH a running motor is AWD. I want to do some intake manifold and exhaust manifold stuff but I don't really have a good reason too besides "i want to"