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Thread: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Found a 10:1 compression 1994 Diamante 3.0 in the junkyard. 190,000 miles but it looked like the last owner had actually worked on it, even removing valve covers etc. Not sure why the front head is so clean. Even the other head is very clean, and all the journals look virgin. The Bearings in the motor looked almost new. The only high mileage indication was that the piston oil rings were locked up and all the return holes were plugged with coked oil. Went through and cleaned it up. Bolted on my ported/cam'd heads because I found the top ringland is too high for me to feel comfortable running as much boost as I had planned on stock heads (30ish).

    Actual compression will be more like 9.7:1 with the 51cc combustion chambers vs 46-47cc stock.

    Main upgrade with this build is a 1000hp fuel system.
    -Twin parallel GSL392 Walbro 255lph high pressure external pumps. Hotwired to 14v. Gravity fed.
    -Using 2 stock 5/16" feed lines. One for each pump.
    -Parallel fuel rails, 1 pump/line feeding each rail.
    -single return line.
    -Jaz 12 gallon 2" sump fuel cell (70-10ohm fuel level sender), twin -8an outlets. -6an breather. Added 3/8" barb for return line.

    Enough fuel for 1000whp on gasoline or about 750whp on E70. Thats conservative. I have 2100cc's of methanol which can support another 150whp but my meth pump is still fubar'd right now.
    So total fuel capacity is 1150whp on gas, 900whp on E70.
    I might run E95 in the future which will drop those numbers quite a bit. But those numbers are conservative. If I need more fuel I can up the fuel pump voltage or change to twin Denso 044 pumps.
    Honda guys are making 890whp on a 5/16" line on alcohol! Using a Walbro in tank and Denso 044 in series. I don't want to push that hard, and I will temporarily be running very high fuel pressures (my MSII is in the mail but I don't see it getting installed soon).

    I figure this motor will make 450whp uncorrected on 15ish psi. With megasquirt, a lot more as I could take the cam gears back to stock and pick up a lot more on the top end with higher rev limiter.
    These heads did 447whp uncorrected (at 4400 feet )on 20psi with only 7.0:1 compression and massive blowbye so 9.7:1 and better ring seal should have no problems keeping up, especially on E70 fuel.

    I think its going to make some freakin insane hp and be very peppy with the higher compression. With Megasquirt and another 1500+ rpms to rev and non advanced cam timing, it should be a beast even on low boost levels.
    I am interested where this motor will start to spool the turbo and then get full boost. Maybe the powerband will widen enough to prevent me from dropping out of the powerband on shifts with these heads on stock rev limiter.

    If I don't pop this motor, then i will probably donate the shortblock to my daily driver and think about buying some forged flat top turbo friendly pistons. My 7.0:1 Venolias were beasts, withstanding 15-17:1 leanouts in the 400+whp area.
    I was going to built a 24v 3.8L Mivec with compound turbo setup but I might stick with this since I cant really afford that route right now. My fuel system is sorta overdone in case I build the 3.8L, then I will be just a few fuel mods away from being able to support a 1400+whp compound turbo setup.



    Some top rings were gapped as small as .012"!!!
    Now top are set to .024" or more depending on cylinder location and 2nd ring is .030-.032 depending on location.
    For some reason the stock 2nd rings were gapped larger then the top rings which is NOT normal for motors built 15+ years ago. Not sure if its because of the high compression pistons or what. Only recently have people started gapping 2nd rings larger in almost all applications.

    Cleaned out clogged oil return holes and then drilled them out larger.
    Piston on the right is a broken 8.9:1 1992+ 3.0 piston that has a lower top ring location then the 10:1 piston.



    .014" copper wire surrounding each combustion chamber. Superglue ftw. Copper spray ftw.

    Stock Mitsubishi Diamante knock sensor. Not sure how to take advantage of it. Knock sense is a possibility but not sure.


    [

    1000+whp worth of fuel
    Last edited by Ondonti; 07-31-2009 at 06:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor "Top Fuel" Bender's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    looks good,
    are those rubber o-ringed an fittings on the fuel pump?
    I think you'll need ones with copper washers, the walbro isn't relieved for the o-ring at least on mine it wasn't , plus won't the E-85 like the the copper better then the rubber anyways?
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  3. #3
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    yeah, those are just rubber. i have some fancy ones for all types of fuel but they are -6an. They sorta work but are a bit too big The low pressure side doesn't worry me at all either if o rings are not perfect.
    If I could find some in about -5an size that would be nice.

    For now I am not worried. I might need to upgrade that in the future. I don't like the m10x1.0 thread on the Walbros. Its very small and very rarely used. Should have been -8an inlet and -6/-8 outlet on the walbro.
    I had to scramble together the barb fittings from a local hose supply store because Summit doesn't have install kits. I won't buy fuel pumps from vendors after getting jerked around 2 years ago with "we'll get it to you eventually when our supplier feels like drop shipping it to you." And I am really not trusting of anyone who sells Walbros and doesn't keep them in stock because their supplier could be shipping chinese units and charging the vender the non chinese price. Forward motion sells them and keeps them in stock but wants way too much for an external pump.

    I will be drilling out the m10 fittings to a slightly larger internal size cause they really make me unhappy with their size.

  4. #4

    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Wow nice build.
    What do you have to gain with the larger oil return holes?

  5. #5
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokid View Post
    Wow nice build.
    What do you have to gain with the larger oil return holes?
    hopefully at least not having them coke up with oil. I sorta think its the fault of the oil ring design though. I have 2 different styles in my piston collection. Hopefully oil wont sit around there long enough to coke up now.

  6. #6
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    i need to get my knock box done but im too busy with outside stuff in the summer. this would be perfect for this. will that knock plate fit a 12v chrysler block?

    looks like a fun build. you want me to make you a MS base map based on 89 3.0L timing with educated guess values for boost? all id need to know is the stock distributor advance setting.

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  7. #7
    turbo addict Captain Chaos's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    I liked your last "project", looking forward to seeing how this one runs.

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Quote Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo View Post
    i need to get my knock box done but im too busy with outside stuff in the summer. this would be perfect for this. will that knock plate fit a 12v chrysler block?

    looks like a fun build. you want me to make you a MS base map based on 89 3.0L timing with educated guess values for boost? all id need to know is the stock distributor advance setting.

    Brian
    My ms box is in the mail right now with some sort of tune. I would love a map but I won't use it yet. I am gonna try to run with the stock electronics just for the heck of it for now. I want to get some racing in before the season is over.

    The knock plate will not fit because this block has special bosses cast in.....but you could probably just install it lower down into the valley and drill and tap your own holes. Its not gonna hurt anything doing that.
    This is a 2 wire sensor so its not the same as chryslers.

    MS has me excited to see what RPM I either encounter valve float or lifter collapse. I just found out that some of the old 2.6L vans came with solid lifters and those g54b motors (Starquest!!) use 3.0 roller rockers as upgrades and our lifters are the same.
    Hoping I can find a valve upgrade or titanium retainer or both. I was unable to find valve springs before so I had to go with new stock ones. I still need some lash caps on my built heads so I will probably be down on power. On a stock cam I would probably be fine for a lot of RPM but my cam is a lot bigger then stock, and has more lift then the Crower 210 deg regrind people are using. That cam is near stock lift with 28 degrees more duration. Mine is 216 @ 0.50" with about .57" more lift.

    Stock 3.0 cam is a pathetic 182 deg @ .050" and .393 lift. Thats why the 3.0 has so much to gain from a simple cam swap. The stock 4 cyl cams make the 3.0 cam look very very weak. And the 3.0 has a larger valve size! A stock head is still picking up lots of flow on the intake side all the way past .500" lift.

  9. #9
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Drilled out the -8an to m10 adapters to almost 1/4" Its pathetic how small they were before and even now its too small. I don't know how this pump rocks so hard when it uses such small fittings.

    I drilled out the adapters on the outlet side too but then I realized that 1/8"npt fits into m10 threads so i ditched the adapter. Now I don't have to worry about an O ring on the high pressure side.

    Pretty happy with how its turning out. Getting rid of that adapter made me happy too. I drilled out the 1/8 npt barb too because it had a weird step inside it.

    Never done a fancy fuel system so its quite interesting to do this. Next I gotta wire it up. I already have a hotwire setup so i will just add the 1 into 2 fuse block towards the rear of the car and split power to the two pumps. I will have to replace the wire that leads back into the engine bay though because it has a stock 1991+ fuel pump connector soldered onto the 10 gauge wire so I will save that for my Daily driver. I got rid of ALL the small wires when i did my hotwire except the wires in the tank.



    I bought a foam rubber mat at the dollar store (sunflower pattern!!!) and cut it up to try to isolate vibrations from the pump. I know these pumps are loud.
    I have a layer between upper bolt head and chassis, layer between chassis and bracket, layer between bracket and fender washer. Then wrapped the pumps. Not sure if it will make one bit of a difference :P


    Reclocked the mitsu oil dipstick tube so it would not making changing one of the spark plugs impossible.

  10. #10
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    w00t! Keep up with the updating, ALWAYS something to learn from your experiments!

  11. #11
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor Mario's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Nice fuel system install.
    Mario Di Cesare [url]www.boostedmopar.com[/url] 1985 Dodge Omni GLH - The Original "BOOSTBOX" 1991 Spirit R/T - "Grandma Boost" [url]http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=270429&postcount=1[/url]

  12. #12
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    The Junkyards new Junk Motor. 10:1 heads/cams - Car Videos on StreetFire

    These drop voltage to the fuel pump. Voltage rectifiers meant to change ac to dc current. The pumps are a lot quieter right now and have a lower pitch.



    31+mph on the back half of the track. Just not putting the power down.

  13. #13
    boostaholic
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    What's the benefit of lower voltage to the fuel pumps?
    Pete Faggella 03 PT Cruiser, 2.4L N/A 5 speed. Daily driver. All stock with baby moon wheels. 85 LeBaron 2.2TBI auto. Hoped I'd see a difference with bumped compression, but I didn't. Still slow. "Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!'"

  14. #14
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Prevents me from overrunning my regulator. Ive already drilled out all the internal passages as far as possible. I don't need 1000+whp of fuel anyways :P

  15. #15
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    Nice work,

    Did you run the 10 or 11?

    I don't see much difference of the ring position between the 2 pistons.

    Vid doesn't work.
    Last edited by turbovanmanČ; 08-17-2009 at 02:20 AM.
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  16. #16
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor Mario's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    11.54
    Mario Di Cesare [url]www.boostedmopar.com[/url] 1985 Dodge Omni GLH - The Original "BOOSTBOX" 1991 Spirit R/T - "Grandma Boost" [url]http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=270429&postcount=1[/url]

  17. #17
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor Ondonti's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    You have to wait for it to encode (you have to wait because I don't have time to wait to post it :P ). I will be driving 1000 miles tomorrow back to Seattle so hopefully it starts working before I arrive :P
    Might make some n/a passes in my Spirit at Pacific Raceways.

  18. #18
    Boost, it's what's for dinner... Turbo Mopar Staff Aries_Turbo's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    looks hilarious. sounds NASTY

    Brian

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman
    This one is easy, I have myself to blame, I rush things, don't pay attention to gauges when I should, change to much stuff at once then expect miracles, the list is endless.

  19. #19
    turbo addict blk86trbo's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    That thing sounds great...a lot better than my 6 cylinder 5 speed Duster!
    [FONT="Arial Black"]Paul[/FONT] [B][SIZE="1"]US ARMY INFANTRY VETERAN[/B] 1995 Dodge Stealth R/T White DOHC 5 speed 1994 Dodge Stealth R/T Red DOHC 5 speed 1992 Dodge Daytona IROC, Blue TI 5 speed (2) 1992 Dodge Daytona IROC, Red TI auto 1991 Dodge Spirit R/T, Red (project) 1989 Shelby CSX-VNT #382 1989 Dodge Shadow ES, White TI auto 1987 Daytona Shelby Z, White TII 1987 Chrysler T&C wagon, Tan TII auto 1985 Dodge Lancer ES, Bronze TI auto 1982 Wife, White[/SIZE] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  20. #20
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: 10 second 190,000 mile low boost 3.0 build

    I think in the interests of clarity someone should make clear that the 11.5 was not on the 10:1 motor.

    Not that it wont happen soon anyway

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