93 2.4l DOHC Shadow

[Shadow]

Ever see the pic of the modular clutch thru the hood of the orange SRT-4?

No, but I'm guessing it was a stocker? Only difference I could imagine between a twin disc like mine and the same one modular would be the rivets holding it together instead of bolts.

Like I said, I'm thinking the only reason they did this was to eliminate all the BS from Idiots putting things together Wrong.

If you drill the rivets out of a modular clutch set-up and seperate it, then bolt it back together, what do you have?

Also, the stock modular uses a flex plate instead of a flywheel, this would be another difference, but only compared to a clutch that uses a flywheel.

Most twin and triple disc set-up use a flexplate like the modular set-up, so really don't see a big difference here?

[BadAssPerformance]

I think the one that let go was an ACT upgrade that bolted to the stock flex plate and the flex plate is what let go. Not sure if it was from the 4 tiny bolts that hold the clutch to it or what, but this is part of why ACT made the full flywheel option cuz the flex plate is a crappy design for anything other than mass production which is why they do it that way...

FWIW the ACT twin disk comes with a flywheel

[Reaper1]

DJ, I know you've answered this like a million times, but what datalogger are you using? I seem to have Zietronix in my head for some reason.

[turboshad]

For the clutch discussion obviously I am just starting to look at twins so it will be a while before I'm ready to make a decision. At first glance the MC seems to behave better but a 700whp rating doesn't give me much head room on my goals and I don't know if anyone has run the triple yet. ACT has a 770 ft/lb rating which is closer to 850-900hp so that aspect looks better but they seem to be a bit noisier from the reviews I can find. Still much research to be done on the clutch and advantages/disadvantages of a modular style.

DJ, I know you've answered this like a million times, but what datalogger are you using? I seem to have Zietronix in my head for some reason.

Usually I use Megasquirt for my logs but just before the waterbox my laptop lost communication. This spring I put in an AIM MXL Pista dash with GPS and it is also a logger which is where the log is from that I have displayed above. I've had zero time to play with it so I'm still very new to the system and don't even fully understand yet how to set up tracks and splits yet but I know it can be done. The added info like speed, lat. and long. acceleration, tire temp, etc will be very useful in the future once I get it all sorted out and overall I feel it is a better logger. I can view things on a time or distance base so in the 1/4 I can see by distance when I shifted, what kind of acceleration I was experiencing, along with speeds, times, and most of the variables from the MS. I'm excited to really get into it.

[BadAssPerformance]

Yeah, I'll vouch the ACT is very chattery, can hear it in the recent in-car videos I posted

[Shadow]

Worse case, my ACT single custom 3 puc solid hub (1lb 11oz disc) with upgraded ACT Extreme PP instead of the HD that I'm running now will hold 750WTQ without breaking a sweat.........

[BadAssPerformance]

Worse case, my ACT single custom 3 puc solid hub (1lb 11oz disc) with upgraded ACT Extreme PP instead of the HD that I'm running now will hold 750WTQ without breaking a sweat.........

Not sure about "your ACT" but ACT only rates their combos with the XT plate at ~600

[Shadow]

Pretty sure your thinking about the HD that I'm running now as the Lowest #'s I've ever seen on the extreme 6 puc is 714WTQ but most say 750, like so........

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACT-XTREME-C...-/350292641720

Here's the HD version

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACT-Clutch-K...506100&vxp=mtr

Honestly I've seen the HD range from 595-635TQ and I've seen the Extreme from 695-750TQ

Don't know why there's such a variation from vendor to vendor, but I've never seen the extreme at only 600?

IF my set-up Right now couldn't hold 600+WTQ I never could have DEAD bogged it on 26" slicks, then wrapped it through the gears and trapped 145mph. If I was anywhere near it's limits, it would have slipped on that run.

[turboshad]

I was able to get the engine pulled this week. When I split the tranny from the engine there really wasn't much to see. The only "breakage" I saw was the flywheel broke at a dowel pin but other than that nothing. The PP may be tweaked a bit as when I put it on my "flat" concrete floor it will rock a bit but all the springs look fine as does the disc. I can't figure out what prevented me from disengaging the clutch during the run. It's possible the clutch was working again as I never did get it back running so I didn't try it after the stall on the 1/4. The only other concerning thing was that all the flywheel bolts were loose. I always torque and use red Loctite but the bolts did have some oil on them so maybe I have learned to make sure both the bolt and blind hole threads are completely clean before putting them in. I can't say if it was the 10G shock or if they were loose prior but I never heard any noise or rattling. The dowels do show that they had been taking a bit of a beating as there are some "hammer" grooves in them which is probably what caused the breakage. From what I can tell that is where the "knock" came from as the piece was scratching the bell housing until it broke off and the knock disappeared. I'll take a closer look at things as I didn't have the time when I got things split.

Oh well, at least there doesn't seem to be any serious damage so far. I could probably have it up and running by spring but I think I am going to step back and stop rushing my projects. I've felt lately that I have been having too much of a "good enough" attitude in order to make a race or event like SDAC and I haven't been putting the time and quality into it like I want or feel I should. I have quite a list of what I think are exciting projects and I would love to enjoy them without the stress of a timeline. That being said I couldn't tell you when it will be on the streets again but when it is I think it will have some sweet new pieces.

[turbovanman²]

Interesting.

[Reaper1]

I've had the PP bolts back off on me once, though I didn't know that was the issue and kept driving it until I took it apart. The diaphragm springs were messed up because of the uneven loading on them. TU took care of me and it was able to be repaired (I paid for the repair, but it was less than a new clutch!).

It is interesting that the bolts backed out even with the Loctite on them. I'd say that the vibration of it being loose is what caused the breakage around the dowel, as you suspect.

I wonder if studding those holes and using safety wire is an option?

[chilort]

Suscribed... should have done this awhile ago.

[turboshad]

From what I can tell the friction created by the PP bolts wasn't enough which caused the PP to rotate relative to the flywheel which then left the dowels to take the shock. All the dowels have signs of abuse and like you said it's quite possible the loose flywheel bolts contributed as it would create a hammering effect on the clutch with a quick engagement. It still doesn't all make sense yet but hopefully when I take a second look I will be able to figure it out.

As for one of my "exciting" projects here's a sneak peek. It should rectify my lack of shifting skills. The design has already changed quite a bit since I made this little video but the concept is still the same.

[speedfreek500]

Race Tailored Engineering Inc. Thats all i need to say about that shifter, Wow you always have something going that blows my mind.

[Aries_Turbo]

how bout mass producing that

Brian

---------- Post added at 10:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------

a servo/stepper motor and a electro/hydraulic actuator and a computer and you could have a "flappy paddle gearbox" lol.

Brian

[BadAssPerformance]

Pretty sure your thinking about the HD

Yeah had the HD number for the XT... HD ~600, XT ~700

[Reaper1]

From what I can tell the friction created by the PP bolts wasn't enough which caused the PP to rotate relative to the flywheel which then left the dowels to take the shock. All the dowels have signs of abuse and like you said it's quite possible the loose flywheel bolts contributed as it would create a hammering effect on the clutch with a quick engagement. It still doesn't all make sense yet but hopefully when I take a second look I will be able to figure it out.

As for one of my "exciting" projects here's a sneak peek. It should rectify my lack of shifting skills. The design has already changed quite a bit since I made this little video but the concept is still the same.

You are SO doing the things I have ideas for and have never told anyone! How are you readin my mind!? LOL

[bakes]

I have had that dream since 89 but i wanted to add a electric over pneumatic shifter to the clutch and the the shifter barrel . ie use the clutch pedal to launch the car the just press the steering wheel button the clutch pneumatic ram presses the clutch lever and then shifter barrel rotates to the next gear release button the repeat.

But i guess you don't need a clutch disengaged now a days as it could be done now with a Wot spark cut.

[turbovanman²]

Or just run an automatic,

[turboshad]

You are SO doing the things I have ideas for and have never told anyone! How are you readin my mind!? LOL

LOL, well if it's any consolation I started this project almost 2 years ago and just got some new drive. I've found it's been quite a challenge to fit everything in the available space as my intent is for it to be a bolt in with the only mod needed being a switch of the two cables. I'm pretty much done that and will be looking to build a proto in the new year.

I have had that dream since 89 but i wanted to add a electric over pneumatic shifter to the clutch and the the shifter barrel . ie use the clutch pedal to launch the car the just press the steering wheel button the clutch pneumatic ram presses the clutch lever and then shifter barrel rotates to the next gear release button the repeat.

But i guess you don't need a clutch disengaged now a days as it could be done now with a Wot spark cut.

I really think you would have a tough time doing an air shift with synchros. The transmission would need to be a dogbox or face plated and the same would go for a spark cut vs. clutch engagement. I've been looking into face plating more as well in regards to welding and materials and I think I will be giving it a try.

Or just run an automatic,

Boooooooooorrrrrriiiiinnnngggg. Why not have a transmission that shifts just as quick without the losses?