Saab to TD/TM related Questions?

[87ShelbyZ]

Ok I have 2 questions both of which are saab related, 1 I have access to a very low mile Saab Garret T3 turbo with very low miles it has a 42 a/r Cold and 63 a/r Hot, I know our stock t1/t2 Garrets are 42 and 48 Respectively, So my first q is would this be worth swapping a stocker out for and if so is there any gain from doing this by having a significantly bigger Hotside Ratio? I would think so but again thats not my area of expertise so any thoughts on that would be appreciated.

Now on to question 2, I know that Saabs came with a pretty tricky Apc boost controller that was hooked to the knock sensor which was connected to the waste gate allowing the turbo to run at max psi til it sensed knock then it pulled back the boost and opened the wastegate at same time thereby allowing the cars to run to 18 or so psi if premium fuel was used.. I was thinking about it and since there are ALOT of Turbo saabs around here it may be worth looking into but it seems pretty technical in an 80's kinda way... Has anyone here tried this with one of our cars before and if so how did it work and was it easy to do?
I know I can just pick up a reg boost controller and all but thats not the point, if this in fact can work for our cars I think it would be cool to do and give an added level of safety that could be used in addition with a MBC, 2 stage boost controller or whatnot...

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

[Murphy]

the saab turbo has a different bolt pattern on the hot side i believe

[87ShelbyZ]

Thats what I originally thought as well, But it seems that it has the same flanges as our cars so thats where the question comes in since its pretty much free to me is it worthwhile upgrade? I was told to expect about a 10 percent power gain from doing just this so thats why I asked here.

[bansheenut420]

Also, you not going to see a 10% increase in power unless you have the fuel to support it. You cant just take a turbo and slap it on a motor and expect it to be faster.

[87ShelbyZ]

Really? Hmm according to Gary Donovans site it says it would increase power by itself by upgrading the exhaust side.. But also that using supporting fuel upgrades are recommended.
I always thought that when you swapped out for a more efficient unit you make power at same boost levels? I know when the Shadow when from the mitsu to the garret which was a bigger but stock t2 turbo it pulled ALOT harder at 15psi and even more so at 18... And luis and others can verify that...It went from leaving about a 20 foot 2 wheel peel to close to half a block by luis apartment... So I know that it does make a difference when you upgrade a turbo to a better more efficiently mapped one.

But anyways, My question is simply that can you Take the APC Redbox unit from the Saabs and put them on our cars, Because it seems to be a pretty nice setup And if anyone here ahs tried it or thought about it before... As well as what would be the end result if I stick that stock Saab Turbo on my Charger?

Oh and its got newer, bigger injectors and an afpr so Im not worried about that.

ANy more thoughts and suggestions?

[Aries_Turbo]

the saab knock control will not work correctly on our cars due to the difference in cyl bore. the frequency is different.

plus we already have a different scheme in timing control. the factory ecu pulls timing to lessen knock. it works faster than the saab system.

plus i think some years the TM ecu pulled timing and boost, effectively doing the same thing as the saab ecu + timing control.

Brian

[87ShelbyZ]

Oh ok thats what I was wondering, It just seemed kinda cool cuz it would let the saabs run past normal psi level to max before it would pull back So it seemed in theory that it would work a little better than our cars, But I guess it was not to be lol... What about the turbo questions?
Oh and thanx Aries.

[SoCalCSX]

To answer your question about the turbo...

You would at least need to change the turbine housing to bolt it up or drill out your stock manifold to accept the standard t3 pattern flange on that turbo. Probobly have to clock/change the compressor housing to clear the head also.

[87ShelbyZ]

SO similiar to what we do when converting a T1 style to a T2 style?, The flange looked the same as ours thats why I figured its pretty much a direct fit, But minor modding isnt a big deal as long as I know what it needs to work..

[SoCalCSX]

SO similiar to what we do when converting a T1 style to a T2 style?, The flange looked the same as ours thats why I figured its pretty much a direct fit, But minor modding isnt a big deal as long as I know what it needs to work..

Yeah, kind of. Our turbine inlet flanges have the offset pattern and regular t3's are rectangle. You will also need to do something about the swingvalve/downpipe. I don't think that swingvalve will bolt to our downpipes. TU's new 3" has dual bolt pattern though

[87ShelbyZ]

So if I did that and used the new Tu unit you mentioned, Would this turbo be any benefit over the stock garrett? just having a larger hotside?

[bansheenut420]

Really? Hmm according to Gary Donovans site it says it would increase power by itself by upgrading the exhaust side.. But also that using supporting fuel upgrades are recommended.
I always thought that when you swapped out for a more efficient unit you make power at same boost levels? I know when the Shadow when from the mitsu to the garret which was a bigger but stock t2 turbo it pulled ALOT harder at 15psi and even more so at 18... And luis and others can verify that...It went from leaving about a 20 foot 2 wheel peel to close to half a block by luis apartment... So I know that it does make a difference when you upgrade a turbo to a better more efficiently mapped one.

But anyways, My question is simply that can you Take the APC Redbox unit from the Saabs and put them on our cars, Because it seems to be a pretty nice setup And if anyone here ahs tried it or thought about it before... As well as what would be the end result if I stick that stock Saab Turbo on my Charger?

Oh and its got newer, bigger injectors and an afpr so Im not worried about that.

ANy more thoughts and suggestions?

Let me put it this way... A buddy of mine with an srt4 had the stage one kit on it with the stock turbo. He put a 60trim on there, and left everything else the way it was. The car was no faster because he was at the limit of the injectors and not the limit of the turbo. I guess it may have been a little faster due to the more efficent turbo, but it wasnt like it could make more power just becuase he slapped a bigger turbo on. Yes, slapping a more efficent turbo on is going to make a little more power, but its not going to take the car from a 200whp car to a 300whp car without any other mods or anything. The .65 housing will probably just give you more lag, and without supporting mods, it will not make really any more power.

[Aries_Turbo]

So if I did that and used the new Tu unit you mentioned, Would this turbo be any benefit over the stock garrett? just having a larger hotside?

larger hotside adds a touch of lag but it makes more power once into boost. i have a larger hotside on a stock turbo. it definitely pulls harder than a stock turbo car. i run 13's on 13 psi.

keep in mind what banshee is saying though too. if you have stock injectors and a stock cal, youll run out of fuel faster. with larger injectors and a cal, and a 3-bar map, youll be in business.

Brian