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Thread: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

  1. #1

    Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Ok, going to be as descriptive and informative as I can, but please ask questions as I'm sure there will be need for it.

    Scenario

    Car starts fine, no oil burning. After a few minutes, usually about ONE, it will start to puff smoke. If I drive the car, no smoke even when I get on it hard or when I'm idling down. From what others have said, it sounds like a turbo rear seal going out; pulling oil on idle, but "sealed" ok when under boost or enough pressure present. This is the only time it smokes. Running a 1 piece intake with the PCV valve running to the top vacuum hole and I don't have a PCV or catch can going back into the intake. It's venting to atmosphere. BTW, Kevin and I talked about the need to have the PCV running back to the pre-turbo intake side, so please don't post a link about the need for it.

    Assessment

    Kevin (DodgeZ) and I pulled the head off tonight to find NO oil anywhere in the exhaust on the turbo end and no real signs of significant oil leaking from the seals. There is SOME oil on the valves when the exhaust valves are extended, but VERY LITTLE when they are closed, almost unnoticeable. Please take a look at the pics to see if the oil we saw on the exhaust valves is normal or would cause the smoke problem mentioned above.

    There are some really odd things happening, but one that seems to be a potential problem and that is a leaky valve cover. There were good traces of oil around the manifold gasket close to cylinders 3 and 4 and a TAD close to 1. The valve cover was loose close to cylinder 1 and fairly tight close to cylinders 3 and 4. The nut for the lower exhaust stud on number 4 was gone, the rest were tight. All of the bolts for the intake where tight.

    Here's where it gets fun. Runners 1 and 4 were the ones that have oil on them (see pics), however NEITHER of the two runners on the head for 1 and 4 had ANY OIL on them, they were totally dry.

    Runners 2 and 3 had ZERO oil on the intake, yet both 2 and 3 had a little oil reside in the intake runners on the head.

    Both of us are pretty stumped on where the oil could be coming from, however based on the amount of oil in runners 1 and 4, this seems to be the culprit for the oil, although the plugs really aren't fouled, yet they are a little dirty. Maybe this is it?

    Now because I have the valve cover vent going to the upper vacuum hole on the 1 piece intake, could this be drawing in oil and then spreading/sending it to runners 1 and 4? Anyone who is versed in head work or has had experience with heads burning oil and oil on the exhaust valves, please lend your expertise and help. If the head needs to be re-worked, I can take it locally to a place to have them work on it. I just need to know what to do next.

    Pics left to right

    Cylinder1, Cylinder2, Cylinder3, Cylinder4

    Note that cylinder 1 has the most oil in the runner and you can see where it is burning in the chamber, but there is NO OIL in the runner on the head!!!! AGHH!!!!
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    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  2. #2
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    I didn't inspect mine as far as you did. I had smoke coming from my exhaust, a little at idle and every once in a while when I shifted gears I would get a big puff. In addition I also had a problem with the dipstick popping out (pcv to vent in air cleaner).

    I looked at a few drawing of the vacuum system and noticed I had a couple vac lines different than the diagram. I don't believe have any vac lines going to my intake from my VC. I don't know if my car being a "t2" has any difference. I fixed the vac lines and all my problems went away. I'm still new and not as versed as you but that is what I did to correct my smoking problem.
    Shelby Lancer # 149... R.I.P.

  3. #3
    boostaholic
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    I'd check to see if there's any oil in the intake, might want to remove the valves and check for guild wear.

  4. #4
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by butchsuppe View Post
    I'd check to see if there's any oil in the intake, might want to remove the valves and check for guild wear.
    Do you play World of Warcraft?

    If you don't then you probably have no idea what I am talking about.
    Shelby Lancer # 149... R.I.P.

  5. #5
    boostaholic
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Ops, hard to focus when I'm pissed off about something. So what's this World of Warcraft you're talking about ?

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    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Where's the piston top pics????????

    If I am seeing it right, the intake guides look like they've dropped, they are really sitting low. I would bet if you take it apart, the seals/guides are worn. The chamber show oil and clean spots but the quench area is dirty, meaning its not the rings. It could be a leaking compressor seal first but my guess right now is the head.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
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    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

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  7. #7
    TIIFIIIWII Turbo Mopar Staff DodgeZ's Avatar
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Where's the piston top pics????????

    If I am seeing it right, the intake guides look like they've dropped, they are really sitting low. I would bet if you take it apart, the seals/guides are worn. The chamber show oil and clean spots but the quench area is dirty, meaning its not the rings. It could be a leaking compressor seal first but my guess right now is the head.
    It looks like they are aftermarket guides. This a ported head with 50K miles on it now.
    2022 Viper runs 9s

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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by butchsuppe View Post
    Ops, hard to focus when I'm pissed off about something. So what's this World of Warcraft you're talking about ?
    It's a highly addictive Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Game (MMPORG) When you play you have the option of joining a "Guild" sorta like a team. It is staged back in the day with Warlocks and Warriors and such..

    Check it out at Worldofwarcraft.com

    There is actually a free trial going on right now.
    Shelby Lancer # 149... R.I.P.

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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    id put money on the turbo had the same things hapining as my t1 garrett, but simon knows his ---- so i wouldent dought him, for as much as it costs do the guides and stem seals anyways and then for sure that you wont have a problem with them, imo

  10. #10
    TIIFIIIWII Turbo Mopar Staff DodgeZ's Avatar
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by Twisted Noodle View Post
    It's a highly addictive Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Game (MMPORG) When you play you have the option of joining a "Guild" sorta like a team. It is staged back in the day with Warlocks and Warriors and such..

    Check it out at Worldofwarcraft.com

    There is actually a free trial going on right now.

    Lets keep this on topic please....
    2022 Viper runs 9s

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    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by turzbo View Post
    id put money on the turbo had the same things hapining as my t1 garrett, but simon knows his ---- so i wouldent dought him, for as much as it costs do the guides and stem seals anyways and then for sure that you wont have a problem with them, imo
    Thanks, I sometimes get it wrong,

    It could be the turbo but you can see oil in the chamber and on the spark plug's and dried fuzz, a blown turbo wouldn't do that, unless the compressor side is leaking.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  12. #12
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by DodgeZ View Post
    Lets keep this on topic please....


    My bad
    Shelby Lancer # 149... R.I.P.

  13. #13

    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Where's the piston top pics????????

    If I am seeing it right, the intake guides look like they've dropped, they are really sitting low. I would bet if you take it apart, the seals/guides are worn. The chamber show oil and clean spots but the quench area is dirty, meaning its not the rings. It could be a leaking compressor seal first but my guess right now is the head.
    The guides are aftermarket. I mean they could be the problem but there isn't any oil on the valves. I checked them on full extension and they are dry on the actual valve. And I know there is tension on the valves but there is NO movement at all on the valves.

    Here are some pics of the pistons, 1-4.

    I know this is something that has started in the last 6 months or so, which is why I'm baffled about. I think I'm going to put the head back on with new gaskets and re-route the PCV setup to see if that affects anything. It really shouldn't as I haven't changed my PCV setup, but worth a shot. Either way, I'm upgrading to a bigger turbo as it is, so worst that can happen is I pull the head off again in 4-6 months, get the head checked and upgrade the turbo.
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    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  14. #14
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    Thanks, I sometimes get it wrong,

    It could be the turbo but you can see oil in the chamber and on the spark plug's and dried fuzz, a blown turbo wouldn't do that, unless the compressor side is leaking.
    see knows his ----

  15. #15

    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    The compressor side isn't leaking. I pulled the compressor side off to see and it's just got muck built up on the side, but nothing wet. Seems like oil vapor that sat and then dirt got on it.
    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  16. #16
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Its not the rings, the tops are nice and dark, no clean spots. I am still leaning towards a guide/valve seal issue.

    Is the SV of the turbo wet or shiny????????
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  17. #17

    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Its totally dry.
    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  18. #18

    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    The number 3 exhaust valve had oil on it. But it was open. Not sure if that make difference.
    [SIZE="3"] [B]Jon Trotter[/B][/SIZE] [B]1985[/B] Dodge Shelby Charger, Currently decommissioned [B]1987[/B] Shelby GLHS, #937 [B]1987[/B] Shelby Lancer, #628 [QUOTE=Reeves;587010]I can be ready. Please send pics of wife. _____DodgeZ add comments here______[/QUOTE]

  19. #19
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Did you get a chance to run a leakdown and a compression test on it when it was hot and cold before you took it apart? Nice way to eliminate the easy and the obvious first.

  20. #20
    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: Buring Oil, need some advice on what the real problem could be

    Quote Originally Posted by minigts View Post
    The number 3 exhaust valve had oil on it. But it was open. Not sure if that make difference.
    Then I say valve guide/seal issue.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

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