523 hybrids

[thefitisgay]

whats the major advantage to a 523/568 hyrbids over a stock 568 or 523?

[tryingbe]

3.50 differential from the A523 matches with the strong gear sets from the A568.

[thefitisgay]

oh ok

so the gear ratios 1-5th dont change at all individually?

[rbryant]

oh ok

so the gear ratios 1-5th dont change at all individually?

The input shaft is one solid piece (input from the flywheel to gears 1-4 and shaft). That means that you need to use gears that match the input shaft. So you have to use a complete set of speed gears 1-4 that match the input shaft.

The main shaft can take either set of speed gears but the ring gear input is machined directly into it so it has to match the ring gear. The reason people do the hybrid (other than for higher gearing) is because the neon OBX is only compatible with the 523 ring gear which then requires the 523 main gear...

Hopefully that makes sense...


The 5th gear is a separate piece from the input shaft so you can actually swap it out and use whichever 5th gear combo you want as long as you match it on the input and main shafts. We only have .71 and .72 5th gears though so changing 5th won't do much to the gearing (~1mph at 3k rpm) . The only reason to change it out would be if you somehow broke your 5th gear or misplaced it or something. Not many people put down big power in overdrive though so it is rarely if ever done.

-Rich

[thefitisgay]

so you put the mainshaft from a 523 with a 568 input shaft into a 568 case to gain the ability to run a posi obx diff

right?

[rbryant]

so you put the mainshaft from a 523 with a 568 input shaft into a 568 case to gain the ability to run a posi obx diff

right?

The 523 and 568 cases are identical. The only difference is that the T3 568 case was machined for a flywheel sensor.

-Rich

[rx2mazda]

The 523 and 568 cases are identical. The only difference is that the T3 568 case was machined for a flywheel sensor.

-Rich

Exactly, case doesn't matter unless it's for a TIII car with crank sensor. Even still, people have drilled the 523 case to use the sensor, Jackson has a jig for that. So, only thing that matters is 523 mainshaft and ring gear.

[thefitisgay]

The 523 and 568 cases are identical. The only difference is that the T3 568 case was machined for a flywheel sensor.

-Rich

ooo so if i blow a gear in my 568 i can get 523 gears and swap them all over?

[rbryant]

ooo so if i blow a gear in my 568 i can get 523 gears and swap them all over?

If you also change the input shaft then you can use the 523 gears on the 568 mainshaft. This is usually not done because it would result in a very low gear ratio.

-Rich

[WickedShelby88]

If you also change the input shaft then you can use the 523 gears on the 568 mainshaft. This is usually not done because it would result in a very low gear ratio.

-Rich

Would work great for an 1/8 mile car.

[rbryant]

Would work great for an 1/8 mile car.

Wouldn't the extra shifts still kill you?

-Rich

[86Shelby]

Not if you can powershift like a mofo.

[rbryant]

Not if you can powershift like a mofo.

And have such a narrow power band that you need to shift that much...

Perhaps the 8V power band is that narrow but it probably wouldn't be an advantage on a 16v car.

[thefitisgay]

Not if you can powershift like a mofo.

air shifter?

[WickedShelby88]

I was kidding guys. If I wanted 1/8th mile I would run a slushbox. Maybe even a custom 2 speed or eliminate some not so needed gears, but my head hurts just thinking of the time it would take to properly modify a trans in such a way. 523/523 hybrid here please.

[thefitisgay]

anybody doing good trans rebuilds on the east coast?

[rx2mazda]

Brian Slowe is in Philly and he does them. he's doing my hybrid now. turbo2point2 is his screen name, good guy. Tell him Carroll sent you

[capev86]

does Cliff Ramsdell still do tranny work for our cars? he's only like 3 hours from me.

and....can you combine the 3.50 f/d with a 92+ 568. i figure the strongest 1st gear with softer 4th and 5th gear and 3.50 for best mpg.

[Ondonti]

I don't really consider above arguments for final drive valid.

Even if you have a little 225/50r15 tire, and even if you only rev limit to 6000 rpms

A 1992, short gear a523 WITH a "hybrid" 3.85 final drive will still do 114mph in 4th gear. Where are these extra shifts coming in? If you were not using 4th gear in the 1/4 then your car is running some major turd times and does not need a custom trans. Swapping to a 3.50 final only gets you to 125mph, and you still have to shift into 4th unless you drive a complete turd that only runs 89mph in the 1/4 (3rd gear with a 3.50 a523 @ 6000 rpms).

Now, if your car is actually fast, almost everyone out there revs deep into the 6000 rpms and sometimes low 7000's. If your car is fast, even if you shift at 7000 rpms, you can still only go 104mph with the 3.50 a523 trans in 3rd gear. NO GEAR CHANGE IS SAVED. If 3rd gear is all you need, your car is not fast and would go much faster with a shorter geared transmission!

People should really spend some time with Frank's gearing calculator, especially his excel one before making gearing suggestions. Then add in the fact that saving 1 gear shift won't make up for a slow car pulling against long gears. The way I see it. If you want to use 3rd gear, then 3.85 is the sweet final drive. Take you to 133mph on a little 225/50r15" tire, and if you run 24.5" slicks, it will go 136+mph, and if you account for tire growth you could tap 140mph at only 7000 rpms. You need a little more? Up the Rev limiter a tiny bit.

Not trying to put anyone on the spot to use logic, but if you run 120mph in the 1/4, you don't want to be using a gear that wraps out to 150mph. you want a gear that ends just after you pass the 1/4.
If you run 150mph, then you have a good idea going. Its not ricer math. Its physics. Nothing about a turbo can overcome gearing advantage.

I can go 145mph in 4th gear with a 1992 523/543 3.77 setup, only 7000 rpms on my daily tire size. Why in the world would I want a hybrid when 7000 rpms is small potatoes. If I rev to 8500 like I want to, thats 177mph in 4th gear. 3.85 gear only drops that to 173, and 3.50 cranks that all the way up to 191mph. fail.

The way I see it, our gears are way too long for 1/4 racing. 4.5 final ratio would bring me down to 148mph. Or smaller tires. Problem is, with that much power, you would want at least 26" slicks, and with tire growth those are gonna be near 27.5" at the top end. All that does it bring 4th gear to 204mph with a 3.50 setup. A 20" tire would do 149mph with a 3.50. Who in the world would run a 20" tire with huge power?
But that does get into the area of making 3rd gear and a 3.50 trans useful. 3rd gear would then go to 146 mph on a 27.5" top end growth 26" slick.That would handle anyone with a manual trans right now.

There are exceptions, but there is no general blanket rule that a hybrid trans is a good idea. 3.50 trans is good for fuel mileage, and who cars if you have a .71 or .72 5th gear?
i still think the best hybrid for most people would be a reverse hybrid. Use the short gear trans with the 3.85 final. It would not be great on the freeway, but it would KILL in the 1/4 and on road course.
I really don't like our transmission now that I am playing with higher rpms. I was used to 4th gear not going out too far so I didn't have to be scared to wrap it out. Now at what I consider mild rpms, the speed is already way too high.

Reeves has a different setup going on that can save a shift but it does not apply to standard hybrids.

[Juggy]

i still think the best hybrid for most people would be a reverse hybrid. Use the short gear trans with the 3.85 final. It would not be great on the freeway, but it would KILL in the 1/4 and on road course.
I really don't like our transmission now that I am playing with higher rpms. I was used to 4th gear not going out too far so I didn't have to be scared to wrap it out. Now at what I consider mild rpms, the speed is already way too high.

Reeves has a different setup going on that can save a shift but it does not apply to standard hybrids.

reeves went ultra hybrid with 3.05 gearing lol........
i def agree. everyone and their mother hopped on this 568/3.50 band wagon. all because some nut ball who owned an omni said it made his car 2mph and .2 faster.
Im very happy with the stock 568/3.85 gearing. the 92+ 523 3.77 trans is also nice and coupled with 3.85 it would burn out of steam a little faster then the 568 gearing...

and they did make a "reverse" hybrid right out of the factory.....any 90-91 A523 n/a car got the 3.85 fd.....I had one in my 2.5L CSX. it was a little too quick gearing for a 2.5 thats for sure......could def get up and go!!