sounds like with that turbo your tune is crap.
turbos are not created equal so the tunes cant be equal.
sounds like with that turbo your tune is crap.
turbos are not created equal so the tunes cant be equal.
1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.
Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info
Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info
i havent looked at the maps but it is possible that the current turbo is far LESS adiabatically efficient at the given pressure ratio than a mitsu would be, and that would affect power, BUT, 15 psi should be able to spin the tires from a brake boost launch no matter what. Something else is going on.
Especially with your cam advanced on a stockish 2.5, you should be making a LOT of torque on 15psi at low rpms. It could be that your cam gear is one tooth retarded, and since its set 4* advanced its effectively only 5* retarded instead of the 9* (not sure of the exact number) it would normally be, leaving you just enough driveability to think the cam isnt off. Just a thought.
Either way, that turbo is just too darn big for a stockish motor in a heavy van with an auto.
Building on Simons piping example... think of the same amount of water coming out as CFM of airflow, so with the larger pipe, at the same CFM, the exit pressure is much lower than the smaller pipe... a larger turbo will flow more cfm at lower pressure.
OK, now before we lynch the turbo, look at your supporting mods. What do you have on it for a head, valves, cam, etc? A stock or poor flowing head will work better with a smaller turbo running the same CFM at a much higher psi pressure...
So the moral of the story and solution to most problems.. it needs Head!
JT
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Some good reading here, thanks!
I'm hoping you vets have more to contribute and hopefully help with this thread making us rookies a little smarter...
Does anybody know where this compressor stands with regard to the 2.5?
I run it in my van but it doesn't seem to get happy til 14 15 psi, same issue as above.
I am waiting for a sbec adapter to start running tunes/3bar/+20's.
Side by side wheels t2 and t4...
Its part of my t3/t4 hybrid.
paul
JT
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Something else is wrong. Even if it is way off it's efficiency map http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/compmaps/fig15.html which it shouldn't be any worse than the mitsu at 15psi, if it's making 15psi it should still be able to get out of it's own way.
I would check cam timing, spark timing, and boost leaks. All you did was change out turbos, or did you change anything else?
Good point, once it gets to 15psi it should still run better than the mitsu at 15psi, way better, even with a stock head, unless there is an improper amount of fuel or something changed like tkelly27 said...
Btw, welcome to the forum tkelly27
JT
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87 Shelby Z - 10.50@141.66mph
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Frank Katzenberger
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thanks! i think it's right fastasleep asked a very good question and my initial reaction to does 10psi = 10psi was no. i searched the web and found a few forums where people there confirmed that initial reaction. but the more i thought about it, the more i thought that 10psi DOES equal 10psi. the limiting factor (for the most part) here is the ENGINE, not the turbo. the engine will flow a fixed amount (without upgrading it like a ported head) so therefore it has to be a fixed variable. since PR is fixed and flow is fixed (after all, that's how a compressor map is used), then the turbos have to produce boost at the same CFM (for that specific engine).
and sorry about the long post, i just didn't know any way to say it shorter and still get the concept across.
EDIT: there IS a time when 10psi does NOT equal 10psi on the same turbo - that's when comparing two different engines. a super60, running at 10psi of boost, will flow X cfm on a 2.2, but on a 3.0 it will flow Y. i don't know what the numbers X and Y are off the top of my head - what matters is that they are different (and therefore different HP).
Last edited by mcglsr2; 04-10-2009 at 03:56 PM.
Scott
87 Shelby CSX #581
Frank Katzenberger
Squirrel Performance - Home of the best turbo calc!!!
http://www.squirrelpf.com
91 Daytona Shelby - It is getting there
87 Shelby CSX #418 - Near stock is a good thing!
94 Bronco 302 XLT - Shorty Headers, 3" exhaust, cold air intake, & Soft top
"... to get the best out of it, you have to go beyond the line. Where bravery becomes insanity. Shall I turn into this hairpin bend at a 100mph? Why not!"
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Check out the one and only Shelby Dodge Registry!
If I have 155-150-152-155 psi for compression for 1-4, wouldn't this mean that my cam is pretty close?
Also, I have a ported head with a fresh valve job, ported 1-piece, and ported stock exhaust mani. But no, the van won't turn tires at 15 psi.
-Les
Measure the wheel larger and smallest diameters. It looks like a 50 trim in a T4 housing, so that makes total sense why it come alive at 15 psi.
Yes, 150 is perfect. I find a neat way of getting the best low end performance. Advance/retard the cam for highest cranking compression, disconnect HEP connectors so you don't spray fuel and affect the readings.
Brake torque the van, what rpm can you reach? sounds like you might have a dead TC.
Can you build boost and spin the tires???? Remember if the turbo is laggy, it won't spin the tires off the line unless you leave with boost,
1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.
Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info
Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info
I advanced and retarded the cam a tooth either way tonight. With the thing retarded one tooth from where I had it, vacuum dropped by 4 inches and compression went down. But, when I advanced, the compression came up to 160-155-160-160 roughly, but it didn't run as well; the vacuum at idle went to about 18 inches. When I put it back, the vacuum went back to 19 inches at idle. I thought if cranking compression went up, vacuum would increase as well.
Yes, I can brake torque it until I have 15 psi boost, but it still will not spin tires. I could probably hold it past that, but I don't because I know that has to be heating the trans fluid terribly. I don't know yet where my RPM's are, but I was suspecting my torque converter as well too. I need to install my tach.
How do I check to see if my TC sucks besides just brake torqueing the hell out of it?
-Les
Last edited by fastasleep; 04-10-2009 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Incomplete
Yeah, the thing starts to pull but then once it gets up to about 10 or so psi it lays over. Any more thoughts?
-Les
I had a stock T2 Garrett on my car, ported everything, 2.2, 2 1/4" swing valve, 3" FM downpipe, 3" to the dump, then 2 1/2" out the muffler. Car felt crazy, would hit 20 psi no problem, and shred the tires.
Now I have a Super70, stock housing, .63 exhaust scroll, and a TU 2 1/2 s.v.. The car feels like a slug, wont give me 20 psi anymore, UNLESS I remove my cap, and run straight 3". THEN the car acts like an animal again, this larger turbo seems sensitive to exhaust back pressure, where the stock Garrett wasn't affected.
What size exhaust are you running?
later Dick Westerhof
Is the trans starting off in 2nd gear , I have seen the gov stick and not alow 1st at a stop.
The trans. is starting in first. I can manually shift it and it does the same thing. My exhaust consists of a 2.5" swingvalve, followed by a 2.5" to 3" adapter to a 3" 90* and then it goes right out from under the body right behind the front passenger's side tire. The whole thing stretched out is < 40 inches long.
But thanks for your consideration!
-Les