3.0L Turbo Budget Build

[nmw2006]

Using that type intercooler is better than the alternatives. (IE. doing a plenum flip and having to rerun all my wiring/cables, or having charge piping running under the header panel/car because there is not room to run it across between the radiator/motor)

And honestly, under low pressure (boost), I don't see how it can hurt anything.

I'm not gonna be trying to run 25 psi on this setup, so flow rates won't even enter into the equation.

It's only a $140 intercooler anyway, I'm not expecting to do wonders with it, if I was, I would be running a Spearco.

[Aries_Turbo]

yeah it will probably be ok if you are only planning low boost.

brian

[Ondonti]

You could also run the type that the TD guys run, a vertical core that exits and enters on the same side. Worry about getting it running first I now repentantly say :P

Thanks ROB!!!!!!!!!! Ive seen the info but I am never sure what other timing events are involved in total timing.

so 26 degrees + 12 degrees (stock timing) is 38 degrees! And many are running 40-41 degrees at sea level! I am running 43 degrees up here.
What is your base timing? If its zero, you are down 20+degrees of timing. If its 12 you are still down about 10+ degrees! Then with the fuel right......I think there is some magic to be let loose with those cams and megasquirt.

That means you are WAY off!!! I think you will be surprised how much it picks up with the right timing. IMO sidenote, 3.0's dont have enough idle timing but I am guessing it helps emissions. Always idle smoother with more timing. I was blabbing about this subject today to bansheenut.
BTW, I think i proved today that with the right fuel the stock 3.0 can be a beast! IMO I love low boost and the instant torque of the 3.0 out of boost. I wish I had the money to turbo my Spirit again. Been dreaming about that for 3 years but its not happening anytime soon.
What turbo are you going to use? I am a precision 6262 fan myself. Wish I had one now.
I also bet with conservative timing (or we figure out a knock sensor set up) you could run 5psi and cheap gas when you feel like it.

[Vigo]

I know ill be the lamest of the boosted 3.0 crowd but i still cant wait to put the m90 on mine! 3.0s make fairly impressive numbers at low boost..

[nmw2006]

How to check base timing on our motors? I assume mine is stock since all I did was change the timing belt and re-align the timing marks.

I am looking into running E85 since it is cheap around here and there are lots of stations near me.

Where can i find the right injectors to run? How do you find the specs/flow rates on them?

I know the stockers are 19 lb/hr, so 30% more = somewhere near 25 lb/hr correct?

As far as the turbo goes, I don't have a grand to drop on your Precision 6262....or anywhere near that kind of money. I need a cheap, replaceable solution like the KKK K27 or something. (The K27 looks to be somewhere near the right size for the 3.0L at least at low boost levels....and you can get one for less than $300 brand new.)

[Aries_Turbo]

holset or borg warner can be had on ebay for cheap.

i picked up a borg warner s200 for 165$ shipped.

Brian

[Vigo]

(The K27 looks to be somewhere near the right size for the 3.0L at least at low boost levels....and you can get one for less than $300 brand new.)

I think Brent actually ran one of those on his spirit when it ran 13.9 but i may be talking out my ---...

[Ondonti]

Yeah i ran the k27. I used to think it was a 57 trim until I went to a turbo shop with my bigger compressor wheel (67) and they were like "nope"
So I built a frankenstein turbo out of an ancient center section I bought 7 years ago for cheap and purchased a turbine.
I wish I had a 6262. I had no idea what I was doing 3 years ago with turbo selection and I dont even know why I own a 67mm wheel. K27 will be fun. I think I only bought upgrade parts cause I had some money 3 years ago. My highschool savings were gone after that summer :P I never spent any money that I made in highschool cause I didn't like cars yet.

Since you are megasquirted you can really run any injectors you want. IMO for n/a, if you had an adjustable base regulator, I would just crank fuel pressure. Don't buy injectors that you might need to toss when you get your turbo in. I don't know how close our stock injectors run to max duty cycle so maybe more duty cycle AND a few more psi is another option?
If I cant afford the MS repairs maybe you want my k27 :P I've got no idea how much its gonna cost. I have also throw around the idea of building a turbo replacement pipe that connects your manifold to your downpipe so if you didnt have a turbo yet you could still keep your turbo manifolds and downpipe in or if your turbo frags cause its not the best piece, you can still run n/a easily.
13.9@101.89 on my first pass with the a/f in the 9's or worse (had the RRR cranked all the way cause I didnt tune the car). K27ftw.

Reason why I say avoid "inbetween" injectors is that I found myself in the past constantly moving the focus of my project instead of working towards a concrete goal. I had to get help with 1 months rent after delivery of my motor 3 years ago.

I think a cam'd 3.0 on MS will be 12 second territory even if you are really conservative. You might not be able to afford the stuff to support what you are building though. My 2007-2008 were clutch issue years where I tried to save money and it bit me cause I didnt balance my clutch vs hp budget :P
BTW the drivers mod is free!

[nmw2006]

I DO HAVE a concrete goal...I think...CHEAP & RELIABLE...which also means that FAST is out of the equation Oh well, that will come later.

Oh, I know I'm gonna need a clutch soon But I'll get to that when I get there.

I would not have any problem trading the MS work for your K27 if its in good condition :P

I have a adjustable base fuel regulator, so no problems there. I will just run the stocker injectors till they crap out or quit working me thinks. I just don't know if they will handle E85 even with the pressure cranked up.

I know I could run in the 11's like you just did, but I want my motor to survive more than one or two passes since I still daily drive this thing LOL.

[Vigo]

i think the insinuation that it wouldnt last more than 2 passes is baseless. Im fairly certain brent could run that 11 sec pass over and over and over.

Your car is much heavier and it would not be as easy to get there with a less complicated setup (i.e. no custom intake, no e85, smaller turbo, no meth) but you would probably have a hard time NOT running 13s if you run more than 5 psi, and 12s would be pretty easily attainable on a basic 93 octane, well intercooled setup on a stock longblock in a full weight car. Youd just need slicks and enough fuel.

[Ondonti]

he said he wants e85. i will tell you its not as good on mileage. I did make it all the way home on about 7 gallons of e85. Drove about 150 miles including lots of tuning runs etc. Thats over 20mpg. At first I thought it was really sucking gas bad but I think its just cause our gas gauges are not very linear.

[nmw2006]

Well, got my WBO2 back from Innovate, it appears to me that they just sent me a new unit...but they say it was repaired...oh well, no matter.

Now I have to get it hooked up and running again, then I can mess with my tune.

Sounds like something to do this afternoon...

[Vigo]

I know the stockers are 19 lb/hr, so 30% more = somewhere near 25 lb/hr correct?

If your motor uses the older style injectors you cn run 24lb injectors out of turbo dodges with the log intake. Super easy to pull and fairly easy to find.. If you cant find any i may be able to come with 6 for almost nothing$.

[Aries_Turbo]

27lb....

Brian

[Vigo]

i should have checked the Knowledge Center first eh Brian? heheh

[Ondonti]

use new fuel lines with e85. My injectors are now all clogged/stuck open and I don't know about fixing it at the moment

[87turbodance]

I got the stock timing numbers from Rob Lloyd So here we go....



Now I just have to convert this info over to my tables and I should have a much better running car...once I get my WBO2 back from being worked on.

On my MS install I'm running 30 total timing at WOT by 3000 RPM and 40 under light throttle by 3000 RPM and no knock. Even though my tune at WOT is only rough my car IS definitely faster than before MS!

[MOPAR_TUNING]

oh wow i just found a turbo two door shadow like 5days ago im gonna go take the injectors before jason gets there....

sry jason...

[Twisted Noodle]

Nathan - I'd like to talk to you about your set up. After SDAC I found a Daytona with the 3.0/A604 for 160 bucks. The guy thought the tranny was bad but turns out he had a broken front spring that was getting hung up on the tire. Luckily I have a pair of struts out in the shed.
His daughter is going to be pissed off when she finds out that "daddy" was wrong about the tranny.

I was going to pull the motor and swap in a 2.4 but this looks more like fun. I know I'll have to ditch the 604 eventually and swap in a 543. Not sure how much the 'tona weighs but I'm sure it's lighter than my SL.

You mentioned turbo headers earlier... where do I look to get my paws on a pair?
You also made mention of not installing the air filter on the TB? Is that just because of it sucking in hot air?

Where did you get the plenum spacer? I am looking into the MS myself so this will get really interesting. I'm sure I'll have a million questions but I'll wait until I get a little further with my project.
Thanks

Nate Hopkins. BTW it was good meeting you and your brother at SDAC.

[Twisted Noodle]

Is this the MS2 kit I am looking for? http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/m...-kit-p-59.html