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Thread: air to air intercooler or water meth

  1. #1
    Mitsu booster
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    air to air intercooler or water meth

    if you could only have one, what would it be and why?
    Im thinking about initially starting out with 5-6 psi of boost and once that is tuned, try 8. completely stock 318 tuned with MS. i really like that theres no tank to refill with an IC, but space is an issue because i have AC. i can get the blue windshield washer fluid at any local gas station, so its very easy to fill the water meth tank if i go that route. i also like the fact that WM cleans the motor of carbon build up on the pistons, combustion chamber valves ports ect. i would set it to turn on at 7psi of boost. so if you could just have one, what is the safer and more cost effective way to go?(i can only get 91 octane at the pumps)

    i was reading this on another site:

    To set-up a water injection system, you can use a fluid tank, small pump, and a Hobbs switch to inject fluid into the inlet tract. This switch closes at a specific pressure, and is installed in the intake manifold. One Hobbs switch is NAPA part# 7011577. This corresponds to a Hobbs part number #76052. It is a normally open 2 terminal switch, factory set to 15 psi. However it is adjustable from 14 psi to 24 psi. Both lower and higher pressure rangesare available from Hobbs 5000 series pressure switches.

    An alternative is the Summit Racing “Oil Pressure Safety Switch”. It is made of steel and finished with zinc plating, for just $13. It opens at 7 psi (non-adjustable). Instead of being plumbed to the oil system, you can screw it into the manifold and use boost pressure to turn it on/off. Similar switches are available from Holley (PN 12-810, $20), and Mr. Gasket (MRG-7872, $13).

    thx!

  2. #2
    Garrett booster
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    do both...but if you only want one..then it doesnt really matter too much

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    If you only do one. Get the intercooler.

    In theory, with an efficient intercooler, you will make more power at the same boost than you will with water injection.

    Water injection quells detonation and cools the combustion chamber, but as far as I know, it does nothing to actually cool the intake charge before it enters the chamber.

    An intercooler will actually cool the intake charge, allowing cooler denser (more) air to enter the chamber.
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
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    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  4. #4
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    If a 50/50 ratio is used (meth/water) it will provide cooling as well as added fuel but I'm not sure how much water you will need to offset an intercoler. The meth does provide some cooling but not near what the water mix does.

    I'd still say get an intercooler first then add the alky later.

  5. #5
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    what vehicle do you have a 318 in and not have room for an i/c?

  6. #6
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    its a 94 dakota slt. theres no room to mount an IC without getting rid of the cooler for the AC. *as far as i know*.
    the reason for not going with both is cost

  7. #7
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    water/air intercooler

  8. #8
    Garrett booster
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    With 8 psi being your goal...I am leaning toward water/meth kit... you can build a kit w/fail-safes for less than 150(and that would be a pretty nice set-up) I have seen them put together for less.

    Between a decent intercooler, piping, and clamps...that is quite a bit of money.

  9. #9
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    do you have any details on the home fabbed "kits" for under 150??? is there a way to prevent the boost from going too high if theres a problem with the WM?
    any idea how much fluid is actually used compared to gas? (as in filling the tanks)

  10. #10
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor "Top Fuel" Bender's Avatar
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue 12 View Post
    do you have any details on the home fabbed "kits" for under 150??? is there a way to prevent the boost from going too high if theres a problem with the WM?
    any idea how much fluid is actually used compared to gas? (as in filling the tanks)
    I'd watch out on homemade jobbers
    you not only need enough pressure to over come boost pressure but also have to atomize the water enough
    I'd say there's always a way to intercool, and they tend not to fail and don't need re-fueling
    10's AGAIN '07, '08, '09
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  11. #11
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    Get in touch with Mopar318 on the board here, he had a turbo setup on a Gen 2 truck. He might even have the charge pipes left from it.

  12. #12
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue 12 View Post
    do you have any details on the home fabbed "kits" for under 150??? is there a way to prevent the boost from going too high if theres a problem with the WM?
    any idea how much fluid is actually used compared to gas? (as in filling the tanks)
    I was not talking about a kit, I was talking about building your own. I havent looked into it in a couple of years so I cant remember everything to it...if I can find my list of parts I will give it to you...they were parts that could be purchased at many of your local stores.

  13. #13
    Mitsu booster
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    yeah thats why i put kit in quotations. hopefully you can find your list

    i was looking at Mopar318s turbo thread. i could fit an intercooler the same way IF i got rid of the AC, but i want to keep it

  14. #14
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    been googling. found this. what do you think?
    http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html

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    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    Quote Originally Posted by contraption22 View Post
    If you only do one. Get the intercooler.

    In theory, with an efficient intercooler, you will make more power at the same boost than you will with water injection.

    Water injection quells detonation and cools the combustion chamber, but as far as I know, it does nothing to actually cool the intake charge before it enters the chamber.

    An intercooler will actually cool the intake charge, allowing cooler denser (more) air to enter the chamber.
    What do you think happens when a liquid evaporates?

    On the other side of that. My meth pump is a POS even though its a top of the line 220psi/108gph 100 watt unit.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff contraption22's Avatar
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    What do you think happens when a liquid evaporates?

    On the other side of that. My meth pump is a POS even though its a top of the line 220psi/108gph 100 watt unit.
    This is all theory, so try not to jump down my throat.

    I understand that liquid will draw heat out of the surrounding air when it evaporates, but water also expands greatly as it evaporates and displaces air, and water vapor does not burn. Realistically, that water is not going to evaporate until it gets into the combustion chamber unless your charge air is really really really hot.

    Now if you run meth, it will evaporate at a lower temperature but it will require much more volume of liquid to do the same amount of cooling as water. In order to make that work effectively you really need to be able to to tailor your primary fueling (gasoline) to prevent an over-rich mixture.

    Am I right?
    Mike Marra
    1986 Plymouth Horizon GLMF "The Contraption" < entertaining sponsorship offers
    Project Log:
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?69708-The-Contraption-2013-14&highlight=

  17. #17
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    ill be able to trim the fuel table when the water meth is activated to keep a good AFR

  18. #18
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    Quote Originally Posted by contraption22 View Post
    This is all theory, so try not to jump down my throat.

    I understand that liquid will draw heat out of the surrounding air when it evaporates, but water also expands greatly as it evaporates and displaces air, and water vapor does not burn. Realistically, that water is not going to evaporate until it gets into the combustion chamber unless your charge air is really really really hot.

    Now if you run meth, it will evaporate at a lower temperature but it will require much more volume of liquid to do the same amount of cooling as water. In order to make that work effectively you really need to be able to to tailor your primary fueling (gasoline) to prevent an over-rich mixture.

    Am I right?
    A lot of people have intake charge temps over 200 degrees F.
    Its not liquid water in the chamber that cools combustion, its water vapor that cools combustion. There are calculators for how much people spray of 50/50 mixes so they don't spray too much or too little. Too much and they will douse combustion. Reaper 1 showed a HP gain on his car without a lot of boost and with the 50/50 mix. Even though he didnt run more boost. I do not really understand that one.

    I would never run water in my system though. Methanol makes more power then gasoline and isnt compatible with normal fuel systems for more then a few hours so I think its wonderful in an injection system.

  19. #19
    Garrett booster
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    Many aircraft use to use water injection...the KC135's I worked on used it.

    Wouldnt alcohol be a good one to use?

  20. #20
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    Re: air to air intercooler or water meth

    jesus christ. here we go.

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