What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

[Ondonti]

blah blah

Someone tried 3rd grade "I wanna be cool" putdowns that had nothing to do with the thread.

This is an Aluminum vs Steel flywheel thread. Advantages of an aluminum flywheel are not 'offtopic.'
I didnt explain double clutching to downshift with exacting detail because I am not trying to teach something. I did get a PM where someone asked for specific instructions, I didnt bother posting here because THAT is off topic. Vigo already pointed out the obvious.

Aluminum flywheels are much more apt for "fun" and proper driving. they are a lot of fun. Its also fun watching someone stall your car because they have never driven an aluminum flywheel. Then rev the crap out of it cause they think its broke.

If you are trying to get by with the wrong clutch, they are a bad bad bad idea. Almost as bad as using the idea to use the wrong clutch.

For me, a steel clutch is something I use because I dont have 2 aluminum, or might use in the future to add some life to my cast crankshaft.

If the poster here wants to straight up trade aluminum for steel then you can bet I would be all over that. But I would feel guilty.
I would pull the engine tonight if need be. (well I looked and he is from Spain so he would have no car for a month waiting for shipping).
Anyone else down for that who is responsible enough to ship tomorrow morning?

[Vigo]

i think some people get halfway through posts like #80 and give up..

but i also think you're completely right.

the flywheel only comes into play AFTER the clutch is slipping, and 90% of those slips are because people outgrew their clutch or didnt make a fully researched buying decision in the first place.

Someday when the ground is not shifting underneath us so much, there will be new 'commonly accepted wisdom' on clutch choices for these cars. Getting the right kind and variety of pressure plates on the market is the first trick. Wish their were clutch threads that dealt with the discs and plates independently, but thats a pipe dream.

[Reaper1]

I dissagree with drag racers NOT slipping clutches. That is 100% FALSE!! In a LOT of cases I've heard it described coming off the line as a "balancing act between the clutch and the throttle", especially with street tires or a slick track.

I will agree that with slicks it isn't as prevalent, but it is still there.

That being said, my issue was NOT from purposly slipping the clutch! I revved the engine to 4500, and dumped the clutch to clean the tires off a little. I did this twice. I then crept to the beams and tried to launch the car at the same 4500rpm and proceeded to dump the clutch as I was TRYING to get wheel spin so I could hopefully overcome my horrible bog off the line. What I got instead was a lot of engine noise and revs and NO forward acceleration to speak of! The flywheel got hot from the previous tire cleaning and could not wick away the heat fast enough so that the clutch itself could do its jib effectively.

Now, on to the good stuff! Here's my new set-up! Many thanks go to Chris at TU for putting up with my skeptisim over the phone and convincing me to give this a shot! So far...I LOVE it!!

The disc is a larger diamter than a stock one



The lightened steel flywheel that did NOT introduce any kind of vibration to the car, and dare I say it actually is SMOOTHER!?



Here's a close up of the straps on the PP. I've had issues with these on another PP in the past, I don't expect that to happen with this one!



A close up of the pivot point. The results of this? The clutch feels like a stocker(it is actually LIGHTER than the one I took out that didn't hold!). The throw is very nice and the engagement distance is very nice. It's not too short. It's not at the floor(like a DD PP is, I know from owning one and driving a different one just the other night), and is VERY easy to gage.



Here's the beautiful clutch just before being hidden behind a bellhousing...hopefully until I build the new engine!



Oh, and I was able to use the ARP hardware that I had left from when I tried to use it with the aluminum unit...that effort failed horribly! I'm glad I finally got to use those nice expensive bolts! I did a LOT of checking before I installed those bolts, just to make sure!!

[Juggy]

Broke the Good + 40% eurodrive real TIII plate from 2002 on the first drive with new disc.

this is the PP im currently running in the car, so far its the best PP ive ran to this day! but that TU purple plate looks pretty nice

The throw is very nice and the engagement distance is very nice. It's not too short. It's not at the floor(like a DD PP is, I know from owning one and driving a different one just the other night), and is VERY easy to gage.

any DD car ive driven, always hit nice and high on the pedal, i might have to push it down 2" at most!

i barely have to push the pedal down at all with what im currently running in my car.

id also like to note that if you dont install the clutch/PP with proper cable length, you might have things too tight, causing the clutch to slip by itself. its always nice to make sure there is a tiny bit of slack on your clutch cable to prevent this from happening

[Ondonti]

I dissagree with drag racers NOT slipping clutches. That is 100% FALSE!! In a LOT of cases I've heard it described coming off the line as a "balancing act between the clutch and the throttle", especially with street tires or a slick track.

I will agree that with slicks it isn't as prevalent, but it is still there.

That being said, my issue was NOT from purposly slipping the clutch! I revved the engine to 4500, and dumped the clutch to clean the tires off a little. I did this twice. I then crept to the beams and tried to launch the car at the same 4500rpm and proceeded to dump the clutch as I was TRYING to get wheel spin so I could hopefully overcome my horrible bog off the line. What I got instead was a lot of engine noise and revs and NO forward acceleration to speak of! The flywheel got hot from the previous tire cleaning and could not wick away the heat fast enough so that the clutch itself could do its jib effectively.

!

Ehh, they do have slipper clutches for certain kinds of drag cars but at that point you are talking about a totally different kind of transmission.

The quote you are talking about is from people who track race their street tired daily drivers that are prone to bogging and cant hook up either.

These are not people using performance clutches or making big power.


Everyone I know who drag races impressive cars is 2 stepping the launch and purposely spinnign the slicks about 20%.

The fastest way to come out of the hole in a FWD manual trans is to use tirespin.
Nobody out there with a respectable racee car is riding the clutch in first gear.

If they bog, they raise the rev limiter. If they spin, they decrease the boost in 1st gear or more likely CUT timing.

So I stand by my point. I dont even see how slipping the clutch would be a valid technique in your car that has a crapload of low end (high torque) and a fading topend. If you need to slip the clutch it just means you need to launch more aggressively.

With carbon carbon clutches, even people with weak transmissions can abuse the crap out of their transmissions because carbon clutches engage slower so there is less drivetrain shock.
Thats how Hondas can run 70+ 9 second passes on an OEM trans and the other honda next to them breaks every other pass. They dont ride the clutch, they let the clutch do the work. Obviously none of them deems it acceptable to ride the clutch. They would rather break the trans. If they really need to ride the clutch, it just means they need to reset their 2 step. Riding the clutch is only going to result in fast cars being horribly inconsistent in most situations. Racing is about being consistent. Better to lose a tenth but run the same time every pass!

And I dont think there is any car more comparable to our cars then the 8-9 second full chassis SFWD cars when you want to talk about going fast.

[Reaper1]

Ahh...all the reasons I don't like drag racing much anymore...drivetrain shock, breaking parts, basically abusing the crap out of the car.

The ONLY reason I do it anymore at all is because that is how 90% of the American public gages "performance" and I like to be able to give factual data. Otherwise I might probably care less if I ever drag race my car ever again!

Oh, and I tend to keep my car as "street trim" as possible when I do drag race it. I find it pointless to race it any other way becuase that's not how the car is set up when I actually drive it around. THAT is the information I want to know...what will it do in an everyday situation. If I wanted it to be a full drag car, then that's a different story and I'd be going after a completely different set-up on the car.

[Juggy]

Everyone I know who drag races impressive cars is 2 stepping the launch and purposely spinnign the slicks about 20%.

The fastest way to come out of the hole in a FWD manual trans is to use tirespin.
Nobody out there with a respectable racee car is riding the clutch in first gear.

If they bog, they raise the rev limiter. If they spin, they decrease the boost in 1st gear or more likely CUT timing.

So I stand by my point. I dont even see how slipping the clutch would be a valid technique in your car that has a crapload of low end (high torque) and a fading topend. If you need to slip the clutch it just means you need to launch more aggressively.

+1
I need a 2 step
1.7 short times riding it out of the hole, with little too no spin

[Reaper1]

+1
I need a 2 step
1.7 short times riding it out of the hole, with little too no spin

What exactly do you mean by "riding it out of the hole"?