View Poll Results: What Flywheel? - (pls. don't poll if racing rules make you use of specific flywheels)

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  • Stock Flywheel and nothing else

    0 0%
  • Lightened Steel Flywheel

    10 62.50%
  • Keep the Fidanza!

    6 37.50%
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Thread: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

  1. #1
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Hi,

    Currently I have my Daytona taken apart for a general overhoul including engine rebuilt etc...

    My main problem area was my drive train. While friends of mine who know more then I do trying to conclude what to do with my tranny I have decisions to make, about what flywheel I am going to use in the future.

    The car is a 300whp project aiming at frequent highway use more then the occasional drag racing. If racing I'd rather be on a circle track.

    I did have a fidanza flywheel mounted which I did like from the revving point of view but it showed clear evidence that it was easyly stressed with heat. The Steel insert looked like it suffered a lot from heat.

    I also do have an offer to get my steel flywheel professionally lightened for free.

    So really a luxury problem. But I would be interested to know how and especially why you would decide for one of those options - other then rule requirements!

    So here we go.

    My tendency goes to the lightened steel flywheel. But still I'd be interested to know, why and how you'd decide.
    Let's play cars.....:bump2: [URL="http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2909181"]Visit my ride[/URL] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #2
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    I have heard lots of stories about the alum. flywheels not holding up to the heat stress.
    Thus making you want to use a steel flywheel. My problem with steel flywheels is everytime you get it resurfaced you take off material. Now if they had a replaceable friction surface for a lightened steel flywheel i'd be more inclined to get one. <---- VENDORS

    But since you have the option to have your steel wheel lightened for FRee id go with that...

  3. #3

    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Just get the stock fly wheel worked on. The aluminum fly wheels are no good for a DD

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor glhs727's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Fidanza aluminum FW's are fine for the street. I'd like to see/hear from someone that actually had a issue related to heat stress on their fidanza with a street motor. The info related to that seems more marketing hype for buying "the other brand" than actual fact. The good thing about the fidanza is that it does use a steel insert and it is cheap and easy to replace if needed. In most cases it is cheaper to replace the friction disc than it is to turn a stock flywheel.
    If you like the fidanza, then change out the frictiuon disc and use it. If you can get a lightened stock one done CORRECTLY!!, and I say correctly because I have seen a few that were supposedly done professionally and they were crap, but I have used some that were done correctly and I was very happy with the results. If you do use a LW stocker, make sure it is balanced after the lightening.
    Either way, you should be fine....
    Later,
    Cindy
    FWD Performance is a performance shop with a significant investment in this market. We pride oursleves with a hard work ethic, friendly customer service, and honest business dealings with no hidden fees. FWD Performance, Real Race Products by Real Racers.

  5. #5
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by 86trbolancer View Post
    I have heard lots of stories about the alum. flywheels not holding up to the heat stress.
    Thus making you want to use a steel flywheel. My problem with steel flywheels is everytime you get it resurfaced you take off material. Now if they had a replaceable friction surface for a lightened steel flywheel i'd be more inclined to get one. <---- VENDORS

    But since you have the option to have your steel wheel lightened for FRee id go with that...
    While this sounds like a good idea you would still end up with the same overheated inserts issue you have with the aluminum flywheels. The problem is transitioning the heat to the flywheel from the inserts whether it's aluminum or cast iron. Our lightened factory style FWs are down to 12 lbs now and you can resurface them just as many times as you would a stock unlightened version.

    Christian, if you can get it done for free take advantage of it. Just make sure the FW is balanced after they have lightened it.

    Chris-TU
    Last edited by Chris W; 03-11-2009 at 07:29 PM.
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor glhs727's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by MopàrBCN View Post

    I did have a fidanza flywheel mounted which I did like from the revving point of view but it showed clear evidence that it was easyly stressed with heat. The Steel insert looked like it suffered a lot from heat.
    Could you explain? what did it look like? and was it causing any issues? or was just cosmetic? Pictures?

    later,
    Cindy
    FWD Performance is a performance shop with a significant investment in this market. We pride oursleves with a hard work ethic, friendly customer service, and honest business dealings with no hidden fees. FWD Performance, Real Race Products by Real Racers.

  7. #7
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    is there any sort of grease used between the insert and the flywheel to aid heat transfer? Has anyone tried that? Most of us are typing on computers whose processors would overheat if not for the dab of compound between it and the heat sink.

  8. #8
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Yes heat issues...but even performance twin and triple plate clutches these days have almost no heat soak abilities.
    Clutch failures recently are because of the change in diaphragms available so people who used to get away with stock tIII setups cant anymore!

    My inserts have always been discolored from heat but when something fails to grab, its the clutch IMO. Heat "damage" should make the metal softer anyways, and thats something people complain about. I have had no problems with my aluminum flywheel when I have the proper clutch setup installed. Trying to get away with a clutch that really isn't strong enough is your fault when it fails. It just happens to be that when your clutch starts slipping, the insert in an aluminum flywheel will suffer more heat discoloration but the fact is that your clutch failed first.

    The vendors have to more aggressively modify the diaphragms to get the clamping loads that used to be easy to achieve.

  9. #9
    turbo addict Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    is there any sort of grease used between the insert and the flywheel to aid heat transfer? Has anyone tried that? Most of us are typing on computers whose processors would overheat if not for the dab of compound between it and the heat sink.
    I think a problem is that the flywheel might sometimes get hot enough to coke the grease. Would it still transfer heat then?

    Still, most heat damage I have seen is because the clutch slipped, that creates MASSIVE heat from friction. And if you are purposely slipping your clutch up enough to get that hot, then its your fault again for glazing the disc AND metal.

    I vote Fidanza since its working just fine for me and your 300whp goal is well short of what mine is tolerating.

    Also, if you buy the right clutch for your setup the first time then you wont have to be machining your flywheel 1000 times or always buying new inserts. Honestly with ceramic discs I dont even really care about machining the flywheel. They eat into your flywheel very quickly.

  10. #10
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    I have nothing bad to say about my fidanza. I loved it on my 3.0, it made daily driving much better in fact. With some weight take off the flywheel the motor winded up and down faster allowing for faster gear changes, easier double clutching things like that which really make street driving fun.

  11. #11
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    wtf are you double clutching a trans with Synchros for? +1 for the fidanza, love mine.

  12. #12
    turbo addict Chris W's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    I think a problem is that the flywheel might sometimes get hot enough to coke the grease. Would it still transfer heat then?
    The grease would liquefy and seep out due to centrifugal force before it would get a chance to coke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Still, most heat damage I have seen is because the clutch slipped, that creates MASSIVE heat from friction. And if you are purposely slipping your clutch up enough to get that hot, then its your fault again for glazing the disc AND metal.
    We had 2 customers experience slippage in higher RPMs due to the incorrect combination. Both were running our headers and hybrid turbos. Brand new McLeod top of the line RevLok clutches and Fidanza Aluminum flywheels. We sell both these products so there would be no reason for us to make these claims in order to achieve a "marketing" advantage. Aluminum flywheels are great for a mild HP application on the street. Revloks are great too. All of our products work well when used in the correct application. This is one of the reasons we stress contacting us prior to ordering your clutch/fly wheel combination.

    Chris-TU
    Chris Wright www.TurbosUnleashed.com Chris@TurbosUnleashed.com 602-76-BOOST Tech/Sales#: Monday-Saturday 9AM-7PM MST Proudly Serving the Turbo-Mopar Community since 1997 TU is a performance, not marketing company. We provide accurate performance data on all our performance products. Fabricating data to make us appear better is just not our style. Do the research before you buy. ROCK BOTTOM PRICES WITHOUT THE HIDDEN HANDLING FEES.... -----HOME OF THE 9 SECOND FWD T-M CLUTCH-----

  13. #13
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor glhs727's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Rev-lok discs are very aggressive with a full face sintered iron face. Probably the most aggressive disc made. In addition the rev-lok pressure plate that they sell with it, doesn't have much more clamping force than a stock t-3 plate. But that is likely a mute point as revlok stopped making 9 inch discs and pressure plates about 1-2 years ago. You are much better off using a better clamping pressure plate and less agressive disc. Slippage due to incorrect clutch combo has nothing to do with whether the fidanza is great on the street and durable, which seems to be the OP main concern in whether to continue using it, as he already said he liked it, but was worried about heat stress.
    Also Ondonti made a great point that the heat stress seen on the insert isn't a FW issue it is an issue with clutch slippage causing the heat stress. Even a stock or lightened stock will have issues under the same condition. the good thing is with the fidanza, just change the insert and your ready to go!
    later,
    Cindy
    Last edited by glhs727; 03-12-2009 at 11:19 AM.
    FWD Performance is a performance shop with a significant investment in this market. We pride oursleves with a hard work ethic, friendly customer service, and honest business dealings with no hidden fees. FWD Performance, Real Race Products by Real Racers.

  14. #14
    Moderator Turbo Mopar Staff Vigo's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    The grease would liquefy and seep out due to centrifugal force before it would get a chance to coke.
    dont tell my wheel bearings that!! nyuck nyuck just kidding.

    with all the talk about pressure plates, im surprised more people dont use dual tbi diaphragms and lengthen the arms on the trannies. that seems like a good high hp / driveability compromise according to my complete lack of personal experience.

  15. #15
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor glhs727's Avatar
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigo View Post
    dont tell my wheel bearings that!! nyuck nyuck just kidding.

    with all the talk about pressure plates, im surprised more people dont use dual tbi diaphragms and lengthen the arms on the trannies. that seems like a good high hp / driveability compromise according to my complete lack of personal experience.
    actually we are currently testing out some 2500 lb single diaphragm pressure plates now.
    later,
    Cindy
    FWD Performance is a performance shop with a significant investment in this market. We pride oursleves with a hard work ethic, friendly customer service, and honest business dealings with no hidden fees. FWD Performance, Real Race Products by Real Racers.

  16. #16
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by glhs727 View Post
    Fidanza aluminum FW's are fine for the street. I'd like to see/hear from someone that actually had a issue related to heat stress on their fidanza with a street motor. The info related to that seems more marketing hype for buying "the other brand" than actual fact. The good thing about the fidanza is that it does use a steel insert and it is cheap and easy to replace if needed. In most cases it is cheaper to replace the friction disc than it is to turn a stock flywheel.
    If you like the fidanza, then change out the frictiuon disc and use it. If you can get a lightened stock one done CORRECTLY!!, and I say correctly because I have seen a few that were supposedly done professionally and they were crap, but I have used some that were done correctly and I was very happy with the results. If you do use a LW stocker, make sure it is balanced after the lightening.
    Either way, you should be fine....
    Later,
    Cindy

    Hi Cindy, the heat issue is not hyped up, it's a fact in my case. The steel insert is solid blue in my case!

    The thing I haven't figured out is to why I had the issue. Not sure if it got to do with flywheel or other reasons.

    I have good reasons to beleive that engine tune in combination with clutch and flywheel didn't go well together.

    Fact is, I had a lot of high RPM slippage, especially in third gear. Now slippage causes heat of cause - the question is, was it bad heat transfer from the flywheel which promoted the slippage in the first place or was it simply a matter of having the wrong combination of clutch disk/pressure plate/flywheel.

    There is also a chance that the hole thing was mounted badly.

    Now, the company who has offered to lighten the stock flywheel for me is owned by a good friend of mine and exclusively works for professional racing teams. They fabricate gears, cnc etc. He is involved in my rebuild and when studying my flywheel/clutch results after only 6000 miles of mainly street driving he came up with offering me to lighten the stock steel flywheel which albeit has seen roughly 70 000 miles of driving is still in very good shape. So I am positive that he would do it professionally.

    The interesting question would be, who should mount a fidanza and who shouldnt! And if so, with what clutch.

    As said, I did like the fidanza from the point of view how it supported quick revving of the engine. If it was only for this I never ever would want anything else. But then I don't want to change inserts and clutch disk every 7 month either.
    Last edited by MopàrBCN; 03-12-2009 at 03:45 AM.
    Let's play cars.....:bump2: [URL="http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2909181"]Visit my ride[/URL] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  17. #17
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris W View Post
    ...We had 2 customers experience slippage in higher RPMs due to the incorrect combination. Both were running our headers and hybrid turbos. Brand new McLeod top of the line RevLok clutches and Fidanza Aluminum flywheels. ...

    Chris-TU
    Hi Chris,

    I can confirm this although with a different clutch combination.

    I should mention that I used the T2/T3 hybrid combination, which combined with the fidanza caused a lot more problems then the stock clutch with stock flywheel ever did -- to be precise, at the tuning level I was at when changing over to fidanza and T2/T3, the stock clutch was holding perfect and the new combination started with problems from day 1.

    But again, I don't have evidence to blame the fidanza.

    In fact the only evidence I have is a comletely burned clutch disk and heat evidence on the flywheel.
    Let's play cars.....:bump2: [URL="http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2909181"]Visit my ride[/URL] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  18. #18
    Hybrid booster Turbo Mopar Contributor
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    BTW: Thanks to all participants to contribute to an in my view interesting discussion!!! I really hope to be able to draw conclusions out of this discussion.
    Let's play cars.....:bump2: [URL="http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2909181"]Visit my ride[/URL] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  19. #19
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    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
    Still, most heat damage I have seen is because the clutch slipped, that creates MASSIVE heat from friction. And if you are purposely slipping your clutch up enough to get that hot, then its your fault again for glazing the disc AND metal.
    Hi, I absolutely agree with you on this one. The interesting question though is, if the flywheel can transfer the heat sufficiently away.

    I discussed this subject with two people in whos judgement I trust (one of them Chris-TU) and the other one is a friend of mine who earns a living from doing all metal work for race teams over here.

    Independently they raised the point that bad heat transfer from the flywheel could equally provoke slippage especially at high rpm an thus causing a spiralling heat build up.

    Chris only had at hand what I was telling him to be my problem but the other guy saw my flywheel and instantly raised the point.

    Now, this point in itself is not an argument against fidanza. However it raises the question on how to use the fidanza correctly or even if there is a situation where you shouldn't use the fidanza.

    I hope to find an answer on this in this discussion.
    Let's play cars.....:bump2: [URL="http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2909181"]Visit my ride[/URL] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  20. #20

    Re: What Flywheel - Your Opinion is apreciated...

    heavier flywheels pay off in drag racing where your momentum is required to go from zero to max in an instant, the heavier flywheel preserves kinetic energy built on the starting line better than light weight units, helping to improve your 60-foot time.

    single-piece steel alloy flywheels are going to be more durable, thats why they are so prevalent.

    that being said, a light weight bi-metallic flywheel can be a benefit for circle track racing as you mentioned in your question.

    i've always submited that a lightened steel unit has the best attributes of both designs.

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