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Thread: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

  1. #1
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Attached is the 2.5 g-head cal I am running on my 89 turbo mini with a 46 trim hybrid, header, open exhaust, intercooler, and charge sensor. The cal is based on Moparzrule cal but was detuned a little and I made a few changes which improved starting and driveability on my van. My van did not like all of the timing in the original cal. With this cal the engine sounds better and the plugs look better as well. I am running about 8 degrees of initial timing. I would start with 10 degrees and either advance to 12 or if you get the CEL knock back off to 8. The knock sensitivity is also more sensitive on this cal. I am running 55psi of fuel pressure and RN9YC Champions.

    Update:

    I am currently running Autolite 62's (Champ RN7YC) and the engine likes this plug much better than the 63's. I am going to try the AR51 ( non resistor version of champ RN6YC). I will post a message with the results. After reading the 62's I dont see any problem going 1 coolder and this would be good since the 62 is obslete.


    *** There is no boost control on this cal ***

    If you are looking for every last bit of performance this cal is not for you, it is more for a daily driver than a race car.

    PM me if you have any questions
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by turbo84voyager; 03-25-2009 at 08:51 PM.
    Justin
    84 Plymouth Voyager LE 2.5 Intercooled Turbo 5-spd - Only 84 Turbo Van!
    89 Dodge Caravan ES 2.4 SRT-4 Intercooled Turbo (46 trim, OS Valves, CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, NPR IC) Built 31th trans
    91 Dodge Shadow Convertible 2.5 Intercooled Turbo A555 5-spd
    01 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 3.8 supercharged! Only 5K miles....
    01 Subaru Forester - Daily Driver
    07 Yamaha FJR 1300 140+ HP on 2 wheels
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Nice, alot of advance there, much more than the G-head cal I had.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  3. #3
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    The advance lowered my EGT's quite a bit and it is not a dog like it was with a stock computer. I have to thank Matt and Rob for all their work getting the base cal as good as they did.
    Justin
    84 Plymouth Voyager LE 2.5 Intercooled Turbo 5-spd - Only 84 Turbo Van!
    89 Dodge Caravan ES 2.4 SRT-4 Intercooled Turbo (46 trim, OS Valves, CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, NPR IC) Built 31th trans
    91 Dodge Shadow Convertible 2.5 Intercooled Turbo A555 5-spd
    01 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 3.8 supercharged! Only 5K miles....
    01 Subaru Forester - Daily Driver
    07 Yamaha FJR 1300 140+ HP on 2 wheels
    85 Honda Nighthawk 450
    94 Bobcat 763 Skidloader 2.2 Kubota Diesel
    SV-SDAC Member

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    Buy my stuff!!!!!!!!!!! :O) Turbo Mopar Vendor turbovanmanČ's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo84voyager View Post
    The advance lowered my EGT's quite a bit and it is not a dog like it was with a stock computer. I have to thank Matt and Rob for all their work getting the base cal as good as they did.
    I compared it to my old G-head Rob cal, Matt's/yours are way more aggressive but when your doing it over the net, hard to get it right. No offense to Rob,

    I had bad EGT's on the highway at cruise,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  5. #5
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    I originially bought a FWD stage 5 g-head computer and even the second chip, I was easially able to hit 1650 - 1700 degrees cruising even with the distributor set to 18 deg. The other problem is the van was a real pain to start with the cal. It would stay running after 6 attempts. This cal is very hard to get right so I cant hold anything against FWD and I can understand them being worried about putting soo much timing in and having people blow their engines. I was ready to pull the head but I ran into matt at carlisle last year at Chris' (TU) booth. He burned a chip and made a few changes to the cal for me. I then went and fine tuned it for my van. The highest I ever had it with this cal was 1610 climbing a long hill at 75mph and not in boost. As soon as I went into boost and it richened up it droped down to the 1400's. I spent most of my time cleaning up the cold starting with this cal. It was a little too rich when it was cold and it was taking very long to warm up. Now it leans out pretty quick when it is cold and warms up quick. You can notice this if you look at my cold A, B, C.
    Justin
    84 Plymouth Voyager LE 2.5 Intercooled Turbo 5-spd - Only 84 Turbo Van!
    89 Dodge Caravan ES 2.4 SRT-4 Intercooled Turbo (46 trim, OS Valves, CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, NPR IC) Built 31th trans
    91 Dodge Shadow Convertible 2.5 Intercooled Turbo A555 5-spd
    01 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 3.8 supercharged! Only 5K miles....
    01 Subaru Forester - Daily Driver
    07 Yamaha FJR 1300 140+ HP on 2 wheels
    85 Honda Nighthawk 450
    94 Bobcat 763 Skidloader 2.2 Kubota Diesel
    SV-SDAC Member

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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    I compared it to my old G-head Rob cal, Matt's/yours are way more aggressive but when your doing it over the net, hard to get it right. No offense to Rob,

    I had bad EGT's on the highway at cruise,
    None taken. I wanted to be conservative. At the time, I was doing another 2.5 G-Head cal and was having detonation problems at only slightly more advance than what I used in yours and Moparzrules (original) cal. To me, it seemed like a knife edge to balance a 2.5 G between high EGT's and detonation. I guess most 2.5 G's can take a lot more advance than I originally thought...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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  7. #7
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    None taken. I wanted to be conservative. At the time, I was doing another 2.5 G-Head cal and was having detonation problems at only slightly more advance than what I used in yours and Moparzrules (original) cal. To me, it seemed like a knife edge to balance a 2.5 G between high EGT's and detonation. I guess most 2.5 G's can take a lot more advance than I originally thought...
    Exactly, better safe than sorry,

    It still ran great, just not fast enough, lol!
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  8. #8
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Rob,

    When were you having detonation issues (boost or no boost)? Did you hear the detonation or were you getting the CEL? Mine has a very slight knock sound but when accelerating and not in boost, I never get the CEL and it didnt make a difference even when I pulled timing out and my plugs look fine thats why I dont know if its detonation or something else because its not the high pitch ping I am used to hearing, my old 2.5 TBI sounded the same way accelerating so I am assuming its just the sound of the engine.
    Justin
    84 Plymouth Voyager LE 2.5 Intercooled Turbo 5-spd - Only 84 Turbo Van!
    89 Dodge Caravan ES 2.4 SRT-4 Intercooled Turbo (46 trim, OS Valves, CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, NPR IC) Built 31th trans
    91 Dodge Shadow Convertible 2.5 Intercooled Turbo A555 5-spd
    01 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 3.8 supercharged! Only 5K miles....
    01 Subaru Forester - Daily Driver
    07 Yamaha FJR 1300 140+ HP on 2 wheels
    85 Honda Nighthawk 450
    94 Bobcat 763 Skidloader 2.2 Kubota Diesel
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    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Dunno, I didn't hear it myself. It was reported back to me by the guy I was doing to cal for. But, he did have timing being pulled by the knock system. Could've easily been another issue, though (bad sensor, etc.).
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Rob,
    The CEL comes on when timing is being pulled right? or is it being pulled before it lights?

    Thanks,

    Justin
    Justin
    84 Plymouth Voyager LE 2.5 Intercooled Turbo 5-spd - Only 84 Turbo Van!
    89 Dodge Caravan ES 2.4 SRT-4 Intercooled Turbo (46 trim, OS Valves, CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, NPR IC) Built 31th trans
    91 Dodge Shadow Convertible 2.5 Intercooled Turbo A555 5-spd
    01 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 3.8 supercharged! Only 5K miles....
    01 Subaru Forester - Daily Driver
    07 Yamaha FJR 1300 140+ HP on 2 wheels
    85 Honda Nighthawk 450
    94 Bobcat 763 Skidloader 2.2 Kubota Diesel
    SV-SDAC Member

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    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Nope, CEL comes on whenever there is knock retard on any cylinder...
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Nope, CEL comes on whenever there is knock retard on any cylinder...
    Yep, I just gave it some more timing last night and my CEL started to come on, but boy, it pulled hard before it did,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  13. #13
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    I owe a big thanks to Justin for tweaking my cal for better driveability. Before, my cal's (Thanks to Rob's base cal for even making it possible) were mostly for racing and/or limited street use. I couldn't figure out why or how to fix the chugging on cold startup, and I never seemed to get very good fuel mileage with them. I just did the R&D on ''max power'' and thats all I cared about at the time.
    IMO justin's G head cal is PLENTY conservative for daily driver use, if you are running a G headed 2.5 you should not have to tweak anything except for perhaps fueling because everybodies setup demands different amounts of fuel. He knows how much more timing I had in my cal and I was running it with stock cast pistons. I never broke any 2.5 pistons from timing (only 1 time from a lean condition, bad FPR).

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    I wanted to add a few things I learned about this cal and may help to fine tune this and or other cals.

    Adjusting ColdStartFromCoolantTemp cleared up most if not all of the rich (black smoke) starting associated with many cals.

    FuelColdEnrichA, B and C needed to be fine tuned when the weather got coolder. In the summer it was not as much of an issue, but in the winter my wideband would sit at 10.0 for almost my whole trip to work which was 8 miles. I ended up comparing it to a S60 cal I found and I used this as a base for these tables. I reduced the fuel quite a but and since then, in the winter it will start at about 11.5 and slowly climb to 14.5 after a few minutes. The dawes now looks like the dawes in my other cars with factory cals. It climbs to blue and after a few minutes drops and the red light occassionially flashes. This greatly improved fuel economy and the engine warms up much quicker. If this cal is too lean when it is cold you may have to add a little fuel to these tables. I have been running the van in sub zero temperatures with this cal and I did not have any problems.

    There are 2 changes I still would like to make to this cal, I would like to richen it up a little when decelerating and I would like to lower the O2 Kicks. I believe this will lower the EGT's a little more. Currently cruising at 70 mph EGT's are about 1450. They will climb a little climbing a hill but as soon as I go into boost and it richens up a little they drop back to the low 1400's. Let me know if anyone knows how to lower the o2 kicks a little. Currently it jumps between 14.6 - 15.2 cruising.

    I also want to try a cooler plug. I currently run RN9YC champions (autolite 63). The plugs have a tan color and don't have any salt or pepper spots. From looking at the plugs it looks like it can still use a cooler plug. I am going to see if I can get a RN7YC or a 62 plug. This plug appears to be obslete and no one local carries it. I am going to talk to the fram (autolite) rep and see if I can get some.
    Last edited by turbo84voyager; 03-10-2009 at 11:52 PM.
    Justin
    84 Plymouth Voyager LE 2.5 Intercooled Turbo 5-spd - Only 84 Turbo Van!
    89 Dodge Caravan ES 2.4 SRT-4 Intercooled Turbo (46 trim, OS Valves, CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, NPR IC) Built 31th trans
    91 Dodge Shadow Convertible 2.5 Intercooled Turbo A555 5-spd
    01 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 3.8 supercharged! Only 5K miles....
    01 Subaru Forester - Daily Driver
    07 Yamaha FJR 1300 140+ HP on 2 wheels
    85 Honda Nighthawk 450
    94 Bobcat 763 Skidloader 2.2 Kubota Diesel
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    AFAIK, that cal doesn't have the Ox kicks that his new TSMEC's do.
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

  16. #16
    turbo addict moparzrule's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Justin there's nothing wrong at all with 1450 highway cruising EGT's, with spikes up to 1600. EGT's should be higher when not in WOT because you should be much leaner. At WOT a good A/F is 12:1, if it's that rich at cruise/part throttle you are just wasting gas.

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    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Quote Originally Posted by turbovanman View Post
    AFAIK, that cal doesn't have the Ox kicks that his new TSMEC's do.

    Sure it does. They're just not ID'd in the table file. All cals have the O2 kicks/limits.
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
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  18. #18
    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor turbo84voyager's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Rob do you know where the kicks to adjust them?
    Justin
    84 Plymouth Voyager LE 2.5 Intercooled Turbo 5-spd - Only 84 Turbo Van!
    89 Dodge Caravan ES 2.4 SRT-4 Intercooled Turbo (46 trim, OS Valves, CP Pistons, Eagle Rods, NPR IC) Built 31th trans
    91 Dodge Shadow Convertible 2.5 Intercooled Turbo A555 5-spd
    01 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - 3.8 supercharged! Only 5K miles....
    01 Subaru Forester - Daily Driver
    07 Yamaha FJR 1300 140+ HP on 2 wheels
    85 Honda Nighthawk 450
    94 Bobcat 763 Skidloader 2.2 Kubota Diesel
    SV-SDAC Member

  19. #19
    Visit www.boostbutton.com... Turbo Mopar Contributor ShelGame's Avatar
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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo84voyager View Post
    Rob do you know where the kicks to adjust them?
    http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...62&postcount=5
    https://db.tt/SV7ONZpQ
    Rob Lloyd
    '89 Daytona C/S

    2.5 T1 Auto
    13.24 @ 100.5mph
    NHRA #3728 AF/S

    boostbutton.com
    tuning wiki

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    Re: SMEC/89/2.5/8v/3-bar/40+/G-head

    Quote Originally Posted by ShelGame View Post
    Sure it does. They're just not ID'd in the table file. All cals have the O2 kicks/limits.
    That makes sense, I just never saw it in the older cals,
    1989 FWD Turbo Caravan-2.5 TIII, GT35R, auto, a/c, cruise, pwr windows/locks, fully loaded with interior and ran with full exhaust. RETIRED FOR A FEW YEARS! 12.57@104 :O)
    1984 Chev Getaway van, 6.2 Diesel with a remote mounted turbo setup burning WMO-For sale.
    2003 GSW 2.0L TDI, auto, fully loaded, modified, 360K-wife's.
    2004 GSW TDI, 5 speed, fully loaded, modified.

    Aurora ignition wires for sale. Link to info

    Super60 roller cams or custom/billet cams. Link to info

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