Super50 trim Stage 2 How's the spool?

[GLHNSLHT2]

Hi guys,
I think most of you know my setup, 2.5L, Head ported by Tyler with Manley oversize valves (little bigger than +1's but not IMSA size) and 995 Comp Beehives, Cummins I/C, JRB tube header, heavily ported lower 2 piece a BR Race Plenum and a 58mm TB.

Right now I have a true S60 turbo with a 3" SV and 3" straight pipe side exit exhaust. Looking at the datalogs the other day I start making positive pressure at 1300rpms and full boost before 2000 (didn't look exactly where i got full boost but it's before 2grand).

Now I really like the VNT like operation most of the time, but I want a bigger turbo to make more power My 1st choice would be a GT30 but I don't know if it's worth the money and I'm already planning on a GT35 for another build so I'd like to stay somewhat cheap.

How do you think the S50/Stage2 will spool in comparison to what I have now? I really don't want to have to wait till after 3000 to get some boost. I'm hoping to have it come on around 2700 and have full boost by 3200. Is that a resonable expectation?

A friend thinks I should go with a Stage 3 wheel. How much more lag should I expect if i went with a stage 3 vs a stage 2?

Thanks.

[Chris W]

Hi guys,
I think most of you know my setup, 2.5L, Head ported by Tyler with Manley oversize valves (little bigger than +1's but not IMSA size) and 995 Comp Beehives, Cummins I/C, JRB tube header, heavily ported lower 2 piece a BR Race Plenum and a 58mm TB.

Right now I have a true S60 turbo with a 3" SV and 3" straight pipe side exit exhaust. Looking at the datalogs the other day I start making positive pressure at 1300rpms and full boost before 2000 (didn't look exactly where i got full boost but it's before 2grand).

Now I really like the VNT like operation most of the time, but I want a bigger turbo to make more power My 1st choice would be a GT30 but I don't know if it's worth the money and I'm already planning on a GT35 for another build so I'd like to stay somewhat cheap.

How do you think the S50/Stage2 will spool in comparison to what I have now? I really don't want to have to wait till after 3000 to get some boost. I'm hoping to have it come on around 2700 and have full boost by 3200. Is that a resonable expectation?

A friend thinks I should go with a Stage 3 wheel. How much more lag should I expect if i went with a stage 3 vs a stage 2?

Thanks.

Given the Stage 2 wheel is larger your exhaust stream will be slower. This may not provide you with faster spool up but it will allow for an overall higher HP number over the Stage 1 Super 60.

Going to a GT30 turbo will not only provide a quicker spool up over the Stage 2 wheel but your turbo will have a better chance for survival. We have never had a DBB turbo fail due to oil starvation. In fact, we have never had a DBB turbo fail for any reason, period. Ask any of our customers if they would go back to a standard bearing turbo and they will all give you the same answer, NO.

In regard to the GT35, are you installing this in a 16-valve application? We have had customers who have installed this turbo in the past with not so good results in 8-valve vehicles. They later chose the GT30 and were much happier for it.

Chris-TU

[GLHNSLHT2]

Given the Stage 2 wheel is larger your exhaust stream will be slower. This may not provide you with faster spool up but it will allow for an overall higher HP number over the Stage 1 Super 60.

Yes Chris I know it'll be slower, I'm curious as to how much slower, 500rpm? 1000? 1500?

Going to a GT30 turbo will not only provide a quicker spool up over the Stage 2 wheel but your turbo will have a better chance for survival. We have never had a DBB turbo fail due to oil starvation. In fact, we have never had a DBB turbo fail for any reason, period. Ask any of our customers if they would go back to a standard bearing turbo and they will all give you the same answer, NO.

Oh I agree, but with the economy it's just not worth it for what's mostly my daily driver.

In regard to the GT35, are you installing this in a 16-valve application? We have had customers who have installed this turbo in the past with not so good results in 8-valve vehicles. They later chose the GT30 and were much happier for it.

Yes the GT35 I plan for is for a very built up 16v application. I wouldn't dream of trying to push one with an 8v.

Right now I'm looking for spool up comparisons between what I have now and a S50 Stage 2 and/or Stage 3.

[tvanlant]

Hey Jay,
This past summer I upgraded my stock turbo and ported exhaust manifold for a S50 trim stage2 and the TU cast header. I don't mind the spool at all. I usually get full boost by around 3700-4200 rpm. Obviously it is laggier than my stock turbo, but really not bad.
In addition, you've got more displacement than I do and a better flowing head. I am also using a Taft stage 2 cam. With the cam straight up, spoolup isn't too bad. 2 degrees advanced and it comes on pretty fast. 2 degrees retarded and it is pretty laggy.

[Dez]

I run on a S50 StgIII in my 2.5. Spool up and drivablility is awesome! You shouldn't have a problem with it at all!

Mpgmike ported head and exhaust manifold, 3" exhaust and custom cal.

[GLHNSLHT2]

Dez, when do you see full boost by?

[contraption22]

I drove the S50/StageII turbo on a 2.5 in Steve M's old tan Lebaron (not Sledehammer). In his car with a ported head and other supporting modifications, the turbo spooled like the stock turbo in my brother's '89 Daytona Shelby.

[BadFastGTC]

The spool is pretty darned good on my cars. I run the same turbo on both cars and really like the overall drivability and obviously the performance levels are there. Go get it, you'll really like the difference. Make sure the compressor cover is a T4OE or B.

Hi guys,
I think most of you know my setup, 2.5L, Head ported by Tyler with Manley oversize valves (little bigger than +1's but not IMSA size) and 995 Comp Beehives, Cummins I/C, JRB tube header, heavily ported lower 2 piece a BR Race Plenum and a 58mm TB.

Right now I have a true S60 turbo with a 3" SV and 3" straight pipe side exit exhaust. Looking at the datalogs the other day I start making positive pressure at 1300rpms and full boost before 2000 (didn't look exactly where i got full boost but it's before 2grand).

Now I really like the VNT like operation most of the time, but I want a bigger turbo to make more power My 1st choice would be a GT30 but I don't know if it's worth the money and I'm already planning on a GT35 for another build so I'd like to stay somewhat cheap.

How do you think the S50/Stage2 will spool in comparison to what I have now? I really don't want to have to wait till after 3000 to get some boost. I'm hoping to have it come on around 2700 and have full boost by 3200. Is that a resonable expectation?

A friend thinks I should go with a Stage 3 wheel. How much more lag should I expect if i went with a stage 3 vs a stage 2?

Thanks.

[turbovanman²]

Don't go stage III, full boost will be after 4000 rpm, you won't like that.

Stage II will probably be around 3500 which isn't that bad, if you are really concerned, run a .48 housing,

[The Pope]

I told you you could barrow mine for a while to see. Your top end flows enough to push the stage 3 fine. The big one is traction, and the degree of full boost. Trying to hit 35 PSI at 3,500 RPM? You normally run around under 20 PSI and a stage 3 wheel will hit 15 PSI pretty fast. The big thing is it will hit boost soft enough to hook and book not spin and smoke.

[contraption22]

Don't go stage III, full boost will be after 4000 rpm, you won't like that.

Stage II will probably be around 3500 which isn't that bad, if you are really concerned, run a .48 housing,

I agree with what Simon says. I've heard from a reliable source that that stage III wheel will allow more flow than the stageII, but not enough to make a big difference in power.

Of course... I dont even know if any of this is valid with the new F1 wheels.

[Juggy]

Oh I agree, but with the economy it's just not worth it for what's mostly my daily driver.

with this comment here, Id opt for the stage 2 exhaust wheel

or the GT30R

[Chris W]

Yes Chris I know it'll be slower, I'm curious as to how much slower, 500rpm? 1000? 1500?

This will vary depending on your tuning capabilities and which cal you are running.

Oh I agree, but with the economy it's just not worth it for what's mostly my daily driver.

If it's just your daily driver then stay with the Super 60 for reliability sake. If you want to play then go with the GT30. Simple as that.

Yes the GT35 I plan for is for a very built up 16v application. I wouldn't dream of trying to push one with an 8v.

Right now I'm looking for spool up comparisons between what I have now and a S50 Stage 2 and/or Stage 3.

Do you have a source for Stage 2 or Stage 3 S50 turbos? We only have Stage 3 versions left and the rest are all the F1 series turbine wheels. Turbonetics stopped selling the Stage wheels about a year ago.

Chris-TU

BTW- Unless you are running an automatic stick with the Stage 2 if you can still find that turbine wheel/housing. As Mike and Simon both noted, the Stage 3 is too big for your application.

[GLHNSLHT2]

This will vary depending on your tuning capabilities and which cal you are running.




If it's just your daily driver then stay with the Super 60 for reliability sake. If you want to play then go with the GT30. Simple as that.




Do you have a source for Stage 2 or Stage 3 S50 turbos? We only have Stage 3 versions left and the rest are all the F1 series turbine wheels. Turbonetics stopped selling the Stage wheels about a year ago.

Chris-TU

Really this whole post sounds like a sales pitch just to sell me a GT30R. I'm not spending 1300+ on a turbo. Did you even read my original post? The S60 is pushing positive pressure at 1300rpms.
http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3589
That's matting the throttle in 5th gear 3.50 geared 523 up a hill on the way home.

I don't need someone telling me the GT30R is better than the S50/Stage2. I know that. I'd love to have one. Hell I was one of the 1st one's on the forum/list's to say a GT30R would be perfect for our cars. Way back when Frank told me I was an idiot for thinking so. Hmmmm. But as I stated above I'm not going to spend that much $$$ on my daily driver. You think I should keep a S60 because it's just a "daily driver"?? You might as well tell me to put a mitsu on it. My S60 spools faster than a stock Mitsu with my setup. So I want a bigger turbo, something that makes more power, breathe's up top but isn't going to be just hitting the boost at anything latter than 3100-3300rpms. I'd like boost to start at 2500-2800 and be full bore by 3300. With my setup will a S50/Stage 2 do this?

And yes I have a .63 Stage 2 housing sitting in my shop. I know you guys have Stage3 housings and I also know where to get more if you guys don't have one if/when I want one.

BTW- Unless you are running an automatic stick with the Stage 2 if you can still find that turbine wheel/housing. As Mike and Simon both noted, the Stage 3 is too big for your application.

What's an "Automatic stick"???


What I'm looking for is either some that has gone from a S60 to a S50/Stage2 or what someone's boost comes on at with the S50/Stage2 that has a similar setup as mine.

[turbovanman²]

My S60 spools faster than a stock Mitsu with my setup. So I want a bigger turbo, something that makes more power, breathe's up top but isn't going to be just hitting the boost at anything latter than 3100-3300rpms. I'd like boost to start at 2500-2800 and be full bore by 3300. With my setup will a S50/Stage 2 do this?

No, your not going to have your cake and eat it this time. If you are going to run a hybrid, stage II with a .63 housing, your won't get full spool at 3300 rpm.

["Top Fuel" Bender]

BTW- Unless you are running an automatic stick .

this isn't the vw beetle forum

[BadFastGTC]

I went from a Super70 to the S50/.63 Stage2 and it spools better than the Super70. The Super70 has a stock turbine wheel. The car was a 2.5 with a big valve head, welded and reworked two-piece, Spearco 'cooler, 3 bar cal, etc. The turbo started to build boost at 1500 or so and hit full boost (20psi for this car) @ 2200-2400 depending on load/gear etc. Low shaft speed airflow of the S50 made my 2.2 feel like a 2.5. The one I had was a ball bearing unit that was on that car and put on my Lancer once the old tan GTC went to the junk yard. The turbo lasted over 80,000 miles before it experienced an imbalance. I'll agree with the rest who say the StageIII is not a good choice. While you would be able to acheive a higher potential peak HP, 525 vs. 475 for the StageII, the spool characteristics of the StageIII coupled to the S50 would suck compared to the StageII. So, if you can get the turbo at a reasonable price, I'd jump on it.

What I'm looking for is either some that has gone from a S60 to a S50/Stage2 or what someone's boost comes on at with the S50/Stage2 that has a similar setup as mine.

[Chris W]

Really this whole post sounds like a sales pitch just to sell me a GT30R. I'm not spending 1300+ on a turbo. Did you even read my original post? The S60 is pushing positive pressure at 1300rpms.
http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=3589
That's matting the throttle in 5th gear 3.50 geared 523 up a hill on the way home.

Jay, We weren't trying to sell you anything, just offering up some free advice. You can buy the DBB or any other turbo where ever you like. Besides, you have never purchased anything from us in the past so why would now be any different?

We also know that the Turbonetics turbos have recently had a price increase. You might be surprised to find out that the DBB turbos are not that much more after all. And, if you can machine your header to fit a Ford Style flange it would be considerably less.

I don't need someone telling me the GT30R is better than the S50/Stage2. I know that. I'd love to have one. Hell I was one of the 1st one's on the forum/list's to say a GT30R would be perfect for our cars. Way back when Frank told me I was an idiot for thinking so.

Actually, TU has been running these on our test vehicles since their first introduction by Garrett (approx. 2003). We were the first to use them on our vehicles and the first to introduce them to this community. I can relate to receiving negative feedback on a product you know works. We were also ridiculed by many claiming that DBB turbos were not worth the investment. Now we see comments like this that make us feel good about never giving up:

I compared my old STG II 50 trim exhaust side to my 3076R and it was a noticeable difference, the old school T3 wheel has a much larger diameter.

Once the car started running like it should though I will never, ever, ever, and oh by the way, did I mention NEVER go back to a standard bearing, old school wheel'd turbo.

AM

So I want a bigger turbo, something that makes more power, breathe's up top but isn't going to be just hitting the boost at anything latter than 3100-3300rpms. I'd like boost to start at 2500-2800 and be full bore by 3300. With my setup will a S50/Stage 2 do this?

As Simon mentioned above you may find those goals a bit challenging. But, with a good cal and some fine tuning you might be able to enhance spool up.

And yes I have a .63 Stage 2 housing sitting in my shop. I know you guys have Stage3 housings and I also know where to get more if you guys don't have one if/when I want one.

That should save you some $$ then. We have contemplated casting new Chrysler turbine housings, but, with the low demand decided to invest in other areas.

What's an "Automatic stick"???

Sorry, forgot a comma.

"BTW- Unless you are running an automatic, stick with the Stage 2 if you can still find that turbine wheel/housing. As Mike and Simon both noted, the Stage 3 is too big for your application. "

Chris-TU

[GLHNSLHT2]

Besides, you have never purchased anything from us in the past so why would now be any different?
Chris-TU

I haven't? Hmm where'd the rebuilt turbo come from I sold to a friend after deciding my turbo wasn't in as bad of shape as I thought. Where'd the 3" swingvalve I have on the car right now come from?
http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2913
I don't know where the downpipe and it's new 3" donut came from either,
http://www.pnw-sdac.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2537
or the 3" cat back system on my new yorker? The only reason the 255 Walbro in the car currently isn't from you is because I didn't have your # programmed into my phone and couldn't remember it off the top of my head while in my shop with the gas tank torn out last year.

Better check your records before making a statement like that. Not only have I bought stuff from you but when my friends ask me what to get you're the 1st vendor I send them to. You have some great stuff. I have no problem purchasing stuff from you if it fits my criteria and you have it.

[Shadow]

Stage II will probably be around 3500 which isn't that bad, if you are really concerned, run a .48 housing,

I would stick with a stage 1 (stock wheel) .63 before going backwards to a .48. Are you going to want to make more than 425whp? If not, run the stage II.