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Thread: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

  1. #1
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    OK, about 10 years after making the original prototype, finally looking to make some copies of my original equal length runner shorty tubular header. The prototype picturded below is thin wall mild steel with JetHot coating on it and has lasted several seasons without issue.

    The group buy headers will be thick walled stainless tubes with 1/2" flanges on both sides. Chrysler style 4-bolt turbo flange to be standard, options such as EGT ports or coatings currently TBD.

    Pricing:
    Currently TBD but expected between $500 and $700 depending on how many we get ordered. The materials and manufacturing procedure will cost less if there are 20 made instead of only 5. The first copy is in process and it will help gauge how much cutting and weldng labor is involved as well.

    The purpose of this thread is to make sure that we did not overlook anything and to answer questions. If you are interested, please post in this thread that you are, interest at this point is not a promise to buy, that comes later. Once the questions are answered and the first copy is made I will have a better understanding of the pricing and we will start taking deposits.

    Some questions answered...

    Performance:
    HP gains expected to be comperable to 8valves' (Aaron Miller) similar header discussed in this thread however supporting mods will vary from application to application so higher yeilds are possible.

    Custom fab and parts required and NOT currently included:
    custom downpipe
    custom oil and coolant feed lines
    custom coolant return line
    custom oil return into oil pan
    custom air inlet and outlet to intercooler piping
    At a minimum one of Johnny's Polybushing front motor mount or solid welded front mount recommended especially if you're close to the firewall with your particular vehicle/turbo combo.

    Clearances checked:
    clears the firewall in an L-body with a T3/T4 hybrid
    clears both Saginaw (metal resivior) and ZF (plasic resivior) power steering pumps
    clears steering rack with stock style swingvalve 2.25" and even 3" TU unit
    clears runners on 2-pc intake and 1-pc intake
    clears small housing high torque starter/solenoid (may require mounting stud removal)

    Disclaimer / Reality Check:
    This is not a direct "Bolt On" header that you can have running in an afternoon unless you have mad skillz and resources. Build tolerances from vehicle to vehicle vary so just because it fit perfectly in the Shelby Charger we bolted it in does not mean it will fit in every car.

    Pictures:








    install pic
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    Last edited by BadAssPerformance; 12-29-2016 at 01:49 PM.

    JT
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  2. #2
    Supporting Member II Turbo Mopar Contributor tryingbe's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    It'd be wise to drill for both Chrysler and standard T3 flange, as Turbonetics stop making the Chrysler flange housing.
    Tailgate at your own risk.

  3. #3
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Good advise Know anyone selling those flanges already made for dirt cheap? If so, please PM me.

    JT
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  4. #4
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    I would buy one of those.
    John Laing "The sole condition which is required in order to succeed in centralizing the supreme power in a democratic community, is to love equality, or to get men to believe you love it. Thus the science of despotism, which was once so complex is simplified, and reduced . . . . to a single principle." -- Alexis de Tocqueville "One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary." --Ayn Rand "To evolve, you don't need a Constitution. All you need is a legislature and a ballot box . . . . things will evolve as much as you want. All of these changes can come about democratically; you don't need a Constitution to do that and it's not the function of a Constitution to do that." -- Justice Antonin Scalia

  5. #5
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    That's down-right mean....

    If memory serves.... (usually it doesn't) didn't you have this prototype flow tested as well??

  6. #6
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloride View Post
    That's down-right mean....

    If memory serves.... (usually it doesn't) didn't you have this prototype flow tested as well??
    Yes, Directconnection Steve did include it in his header flow test in this thread and it actually did not flow as well as a huge log but did have good runner to runner consistency. It is obvious why in a flow test of this type that it flowed less, that is due to the length of the runner at a smaller cross section than the larger log plenum... like blowing air thru a straw vs. blowing air out the window. I think I said it in that thread, I am not a fan of flow testing headers as a flow test does not accurately represent or explain how a pressurized turbo header functions with respect to exhaust pulse velocity and timing.

    JT
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    JOIN SDAC and your local Chapter TODAY! - SUPPORT the CLUB that supports YOUR HOBBY!
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    Submit your 1/4 mile times HERE!!

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  7. #7
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Good advise Know anyone selling those flanges already made for dirt cheap? If so, please PM me.
    There's a reason you don't see that flange often....

  8. #8
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    Yes, Directconnection Steve did include it in his header flow test in this thread and it actually did not flow as well as a huge log but did have good runner to runner consistency. It is obvious why in a flow test of this type that it flowed less, that is due to the length of the runner at a smaller cross section than the larger log plenum... like blowing air thru a straw vs. blowing air out the window. I think I said it in that thread, I am not a fan of flow testing headers as a flow test does not accurately represent or explain how a pressurized turbo header functions with respect to exhaust pulse velocity and timing.



    I just couldn't remember how equal your equal length header is.

    May i say, its pretty darned equal.

    (#1) -1.3 #2) -2.8 #3) -3.7 #4) 3.2)

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    Supporting Member Turbo Mopar Contributor 30 PSI SHADOW's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    sounds good. So it definitely is an improvement? Im in if it makes more power than a stock ported log....

    bill

  10. #10

    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Dang JT, nicely posted. I think that covered what we discussed quite well!

    Mr. Baker, it certainly is a worthwhile investment for anybody serious about wanting to make some big power. Even with the little 'ole papa smurf Daytona of mine it made up to a 15 WHP/WTQ gain above 4500 rpm. That is over a stock manny, not a ported one, but it's also through a 2.25" SV, with a stock head, stock intake, stock turbo (+ .63 housing).

    On a well modified car I would see no reason a good header couldn't make a gain of over 40 WHP over top of a ported manifold.

  11. #11
    See me ride out of the sunset... Turbo Mopar Staff BadAssPerformance's Avatar
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Thanks Aaron, and thanks to your hard work and dyno test for getting me finally considering getting a batch made for this community

    JT
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  12. #12
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    I'm in if you do one with a standard t3 flange
    you can't polish a turd! [COLOR="Red"][FONT="Arial Black"][/FONT][/COLOR]13.67@100.11

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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by 4cefedomni View Post
    I'm in if you do one with a standard t3 flange
    You already have a manifold,
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    lol that was fast! I have a couple TBI manifolds that i can make into headers, but these look like they would flow a bit better than that!
    you can't polish a turd! [COLOR="Red"][FONT="Arial Black"][/FONT][/COLOR]13.67@100.11

  15. #15

    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    This thread needs more exposure. I don't think people check the group buy section all that often. I had to look hard to even find it.

  16. #16
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    You know the flange on my S car header is drilled for T4 and Chrysler, much closer than T3 and Chrysler. In fact, one hole is elongated and one hole is redrilled, thats it...

    T3/Ford/universal, isn't that the *tiny* little rectangle?

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  17. #17
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    excuse me. These are for 8v motors. I don't think you are allowed to post in a thread that has less than 16 valves.

    j/k
    Ron

    I've seen the prototype years ago and it's better than it looks in the pix.
    This sums it up

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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    whats the flange thickness at the head???? looks to be 5/16 or 3/8 at most

    I see the flange has not been seperated between the ports?? is this thing going to bend n flex? warping the initial surface???

    I know the TU headers warped because i currently have one that I had remachined at work flat. might be something to consider!! if a big log manny can warp itself over .060" with a thicker flange Id like to say its going to happen to this as well

    BTW looks great!! if i have/had money id be all over it....and yes aaron is right about the group buy section, it doesnt get the exposure it should!

    maybe it should have its own space under the vending section??

    edit: how much space was between the L body firewall and t4 comp housing???? think a GT30R could fit back there with this?

  19. #19
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by BadAssPerformance View Post
    BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy
    The group buy headers will be thick walled stainless tubes with 1/2" flanges on both sides.

    Performance:
    HP gains expected to be comperable to 8valves' (Aaron Miller) similar header discussed in this thread however supporting mods will vary from application to application so higher yeilds are possible.

    Custom fab and parts required and not currently included:
    custom downpipe
    custom oil and coolant feed lines
    custom coolant return line
    custom oil return into oil pan
    custom air inlet and outlet to intercooler piping
    At a minimum one of Johnny's Polybushing front motor mount or solid welded front mount recommended especially if you're close to the firewall with your particular vehicle/turbo combo.

    Clearances checked:
    clears the firewall in an L-body with a T3/T4 hybrid
    clears both Saginaw (metal resivior) and ZF (plasic resivior) power steering pumps
    clears steering rack with stock style swingvalve 2.25" and even 3" TU unit
    clears runners on 2-pc intake and 1-pc intake
    clears small housing high torque starter/solenoid (may require mounting stud removal)

    Disclaimer / Reality Check:
    This is not a direct "Bolt On" header that you can have running in an afternoon unless you have mad skillz and resources. Build tolerances from vehicle to vehicle vary so just because it fit perfectly in the Shelby Charger we bolted it in does not mean it will fit in every car.

    I didnt notice the 1/2" flange part till after...so that shouldnt be a prob. he already said he ran it for a couple years with no problems so a thicker flange is going to be even more potent.

    THe header being built was never claimed to be a bolt on! JT is upfront with the whole situtation by telling you everything thats needed to be done to make this work, if you want a bolt on header then go buy the TU header.

    Im running a TU header now and looking at this, im sure it would help spool my turbo faster, and even make more top end power, over the TU header.

    and also aarons obviously done the R & D with his tubed header. if 12 WHP gains can be had at higher rpm with stock 88 TII parts, then 40 whp gains are definately doable with a premo setup.

    IMHO the original TU SS header was ONLY made for the ease of installing bigger turbos, providing the market with a true bolt on setup so no hassle is required. and someone had seen there was a way to profit.
    R & D wasnt spent until the cast unit! the cast unit was created to find an easier alternative to making the SS versions, and considering they were really the ONLY option, until NOW...

    this header is for those who want to go beyond "bolt on" status

  20. #20
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    Re: BadAss 2.2L/2.5L Equal Length Runner Tubular Header Group Buy

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboRon25 View Post
    excuse me. These are for 8v motors. I don't think you are allowed to post in a thread that has less than 16 valves.

    j/k
    Ron

    I've seen the prototype years ago and it's better than it looks in the pix.
    This sums it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
    LMAO at the video!

    Good job guys making this header available to the public!

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