Lets talk(civilized) about turbos.

[BadAssPerformance]

Shouldnt have to port trh turbine housing... and not sure what size the PT injectors are, less than 42pph tho!

[tryingbe]

I've got one ... unfortunately it's on the engine in the daytona. It has a early style comp housing .. the one with the (3) bolts.

Just realized I have the old pic's from Brad when he sold it to me.
http://www.merr.com/users/lkatuzny/p...us/turbo1a.jpg
http://www.merr.com/users/lkatuzny/p...us/turbo2a.jpg
http://www.merr.com/users/lkatuzny/p...us/turbo3a.jpg

Nice.

Looks like T3 60 trim wheel to me.

[moparzrule]

S70 is a Buick Grand National compressor wheel on a T3 exhaust. Heard they're laggy as hell.

From who and what setup?

Mine spooled fine, very sweet for a street setup. 22 PSI by 3200 RPM in any gear that got traction. 290 WHP 2.2L in my daytona, S70 with .63 stock wheel.

S70 is a good option for those that want right around 300 WHP but don't want to have to deal with the issues of going with the hybrid compressor housing. Plus it looks stock if you like a sleeper.


As for the whole to4B versus E housing thing....well I've run a T04B H trim which flows 51 lb/min, and a 46 trim T04E which flows 41, and the 46 trim seemed to make better on my shadow (~300-325 WHP setup). Well the H trim had me trapping 107.5mph at 20 PSI boost and the 46 trim trapped 111.75mph with 22 PSI. I don't think I would have gained 4 MPH with only 2 more PSI boost with the H trim. Plus the 46 trim spooled a little faster on the street.
The B housing is definitely easier to install though. Much easier to fit a pipe on the compressor outlet without two 90 degree elbows on there. I did do it with the E housing but it's tight. Plus the E housing was taller, so the wastegate actuator was higher which kinda put the geometry off with the swingvalve...this raised my minimum boost level. I could have eventually fabbed some kind of bracket up or something but I was crunched for time and just threw it on as is.


Turbo selection is very much based off your setup and your HP goals. There is no one size fits all, but in general the 50 trim T04E with the .63 stage 2 is about the best turbo for the range of 300-450 WHP for these cars. 46 trim with .63 stage 1 is good for 250-350 WHP setups. Super 60 T3 with .63 turbine stage 1 wheel good for 225-300 WHP. Stock T2 turbo great for stock-250 WHP. And again the S70 is great for those wanting a sleeper or ease of install setup in the range of 250-325 WHP.
And also there's some discrepancy about using the stage 3 turbine wheel with the 50 trim T04E. IMO, a 2.5L making more than 400 WHP can use the stage 3 wheel no problem at all. As for a 2.2L, could probably stick with the stage 2 unless your car is drag only.

[moparzrule]

Nice.

Looks like T3 60 trim wheel to me.

+1, regular 60 trim.

[Shadow]

From who and wa sleeper.


As for the whole to4B versus E housing thing....well I've run a T04B H trim which flows 51 lb/min, and a 46 trim T04E which flows 41, and the 46 trim seemed to make better on my shadow (~300-325 WHP setup). Well the H trim had me trapping 107.5mph at 20 PSI boost and the 46 trim trapped 111.75mph with 22 PSI. I don't think I would have gained 4 MPH with only 2 more PSI boost with the H trim. Plus the 46 trim spooled a little faster on the street.
The B housing is definitely easier to install though. Much easier to fit a pipe on the compressor outlet without two 90 degree elbows on there. I did do it with the E housing but it's tight. Plus the E housing was taller, so the wastegate actuator was higher which kinda put the geometry off with the swingvalve...this raised my minimum boost level. I could have eventually fabbed some kind of bracket up or something but I was crunched for time and just threw it on as is.


Turbo selection is very much based off your setup and your HP goals. There is no one size fits all, but in general the 50 trim T04E with the .63 stage 2 is about the best turbo for the range of 300-450 WHP for these cars. 46 trim with .63 stage 1 is good for 250-350 WHP setups. Super 60 T3 with .63 turbine stage 1 wheel good for 225-300 WHP. Stock T2 turbo great for stock-250 WHP. And again the S70 is great for those wanting a sleeper or ease of install setup in the range of 250-325 WHP.hat setup?

Mine spooled fine, very sweet for a street setup. 22 PSI by 3200 RPM in any gear that got traction. 290 WHP 2.2L in my daytona, S70 with .63 stock wheel.

S70 is a good option for those that want right around 300 WHP but don't want to have to deal with the issues of going with the hybrid compressor housing. Plus it looks stock if you like
And also there's some discrepancy about using the stage 3 turbine wheel with the 50 trim T04E. IMO, a 2.5L making more than 400 WHP can use the stage 3 wheel no problem at all. As for a 2.2L, could probably stick with the stage 2 unless your car is drag only.

Some good info here, but I'm not sure why your saying there is "discrepancy about using the stage 3 turbine wheel with the 50 trim"? The difference between a 50 trim and the extended tip 57 trim I was running is almost negligible. IF I could only have chose between a normal 57 trim and a normal 50 trim, I would have taken the 50 trim in a heartbeat and paired it with the stage 3 wheel. The only "discrepancy" is using a stage 3 wheel on a stock mtr......whatever the compressor side! (IMO anyway)

[moparzrule]

Some good info here, but I'm not sure why your saying there is "discrepancy about using the stage 3 turbine wheel with the 50 trim"? The difference between a 50 trim and the extended tip 57 trim I was running is almost negligible. IF I could only have chose between a normal 57 trim and a normal 50 trim, I would have taken the 50 trim in a heartbeat and paired it with the stage 3 wheel. The only "discrepancy" is using a stage 3 wheel on a stock mtr......whatever the compressor side! (IMO anyway)

Some people say that the stage 3 wheel is not necessary with the 50 trim at all for our engines, the stage 2 flows well enough for the 8 valve head no matter what especially with a 2.2L. It's NOT my opinion, I just remember hearing that somewhere to make the disclaimer.

But like I said you are well over 400 WHP so there's no problem with the stage 3! But thats my opinion, and in this case apparently yours too! So it's all good. I have no experience with any 57 trim so I'll take your word for it

[Shadow]

IMO, a 2.5L making more than 400 WHP can use the stage 3 wheel no problem at all.

I agree with this statement. What size turbine (stage 1,2,3, I'm not going to say 5 cause I don't think it's relivent on our 8v's) is MORE dependant on your HP goals than anything else (I'm not going to include build limitation factors here, like wether your head is ported or not for simplicity sake). It has a similar effect as changing the A/R of your turbine housing. IF I were to build a 2.2 that was going to use a 50 trim hybrid and only just reach 400whp it might be debatable weather the stage 2 or stage 3 would be a better choise (having NO other limiting constriction). At that HP level I would think the stage 3 WOULD make more HP, but the stage 2 might be a better DRIVER wheel. I have nothing to compare the two myself, I went right from a To4e 46 trim stage 1 to a 57trim stage 3 because I had every intention of making more than 400whp and didn't want to have to change up my turbine wheel 1/2 build. My understanding (from other builds I've read about) is that the .63 A/R stage 3 housing is good to about 500whp (but at that level your already loosing some top end 10-15HP maybe) What I would be interested to know, is wether that's with a log exhaust or EL header, because the header will obviously use the housing to a greater efficiency.

[turbovanman²]

I know all my combo's weren't tuned properly but the 8 valve setup was laggy with a 50 trim stage III unless I advanced the cam, which helped. My TIII setup with the same turbo and slight ported head was ok, but the new way more ported head has almost eliminated it.

I would say for a DD, stick with a stage II turbine.

[puppet]

You fellas remember Rattlesnakes set-up ... the .48 Stage 5 turbine? Forget what his cold side was though.

[cordes]

You fellas remember Rattlesnakes set-up ... the .48 Stage 5 turbine? Forget what his cold side was though.

I did a decent search through a lot of his posts just now, and he mentions several turbos. It was a pretty good read. Here are a couple threads with some info.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2887

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/491208

[Shadow]

You fellas remember Rattlesnakes set-up ... the .48 Stage 5 turbine? Forget what his cold side was though.

I would imagine that with a big enough compressor you can make any turbine/wheel combo work. Bottom line, IF your compressors not big enough staging a turbine housing is going to hurt you. eg. We had a Rampage at the shop that was trapping 104-105mph on the stock Garrett @ 20psi. The car was in a small front end collision and the lower IC hose came 1/2 off. The owner didn't realize this and continued to drive the car that way. Overspun the turbo and whiped the bearings out. There was 1 wknd of racing left and he was hoping to go. I had a B wheel'd .48 A/R stage 3 (Enforcer?) turbo sitting on the bench that I had taken off a car I bought because I knew that combo wouldn't work well together. We installed it on his car 1, so he could go have some fun at the track and 2, cause it was a great oportunity to see what it would do. Fisrt off, spool was Gone! Turbo would follow the tac.....full spool @ 45-5000rpm. Now, I figured even so, it's a way bigger compressor wheel, right. This things deff going to do better than the stocker! WRONG-O! We had to bring that turbo combo up to 21-22psi to even match the 105mph the car had previously been trapping! Perfect example of giving up Too much power under the curve and not gaining enough back up top! This was a great lesson learned, and once again verified something that I had already believed. The stage 3 turbo was just starting to come to life at the 21-22 psi we ran. Now in all fairness, IF we would have gone higher in boost, the Stage 3 would have started to run away from the stocker, but still a bad match in my books. Doesn't mean you can't MAKE it work, just not as optimal as it COULD be!

[Shadow]

I know all my combo's weren't tuned properly but the 8 valve setup was laggy with a 50 trim stage III unless I advanced the cam, which helped. My TIII setup with the same turbo and slight ported head was ok, but the new way more ported head has almost eliminated it.

I would say for a DD, stick with a stage II turbine.

Would have been interesting to drop a stage 2 into the Charger last year after the 448 dyno session, could have been some good info there.

[turbovanman²]

Would have been interesting to drop a stage 2 into the Charger last year after the 448 dyno session, could have been some good info there.

No kidding,

[Ondonti]

I would imagine that with a big enough compressor you can make any turbine/wheel combo work. Bottom line, IF your compressors not big enough staging a turbine housing is going to hurt you. eg. We had a Rampage at the shop that was trapping 104-105mph on the stock Garrett @ 20psi. The car was in a small front end collision and the lower IC hose came 1/2 off. The owner didn't realize this and continued to drive the car that way. Overspun the turbo and whiped the bearings out. There was 1 wknd of racing left and he was hoping to go. I had a B wheel'd .48 A/R stage 3 (Enforcer?) turbo sitting on the bench that I had taken off a car I bought because I knew that combo wouldn't work well together. We installed it on his car 1, so he could go have some fun at the track and 2, cause it was a great oportunity to see what it would do. Fisrt off, spool was Gone! Turbo would follow the tac.....full spool @ 45-5000rpm. Now, I figured even so, it's a way bigger compressor wheel, right. This things deff going to do better than the stocker! WRONG-O! We had to bring that turbo combo up to 21-22psi to even match the 105mph the car had previously been trapping! Perfect example of giving up Too much power under the curve and not gaining enough back up top! This was a great lesson learned, and once again verified something that I had already believed. The stage 3 turbo was just starting to come to life at the 21-22 psi we ran. Now in all fairness, IF we would have gone higher in boost, the Stage 3 would have started to run away from the stocker, but still a bad match in my books. Doesn't mean you can't MAKE it work, just not as optimal as it COULD be!

that example isnt really fair since you obviously put together a combo that doesnt work well together. Same reason you were not using the turbo yourself.
Also, you probably needed to change driving habits, powershifting etc *unless it was an auto, then still, shifting probably needed to be different.

If you treat a turbo that moves power to the right like a smaller turbo, its obviously going to perform horribly.

[moparzrule]

If you treat a turbo that moves power to the right like a smaller turbo, its obviously going to perform horribly.

Thats exactly what I was trying to explain in the other thread that almost got locked where we were discussing the use of the stage 3 turbine wheel with a stock 8 valve head.

[Shadow]

that example isnt really fair since you obviously put together a combo that doesnt work well together. Same reason you were not using the turbo yourself.
Also, you probably needed to change driving habits, powershifting etc *unless it was an auto, then still, shifting probably needed to be different.

If you treat a turbo that moves power to the right like a smaller turbo, its obviously going to perform horribly.

Point taken. I'll still never be a fan of compressor wheels in smaller housings and staged .48 A/R turbine housings, but to each there own.

[Ondonti]

well I dont believe in missmatching compressor wheels to smaller housings. I think the poor results speak for themselves every time someone tries to get away with something you cant get away with!

I break that rule sorta by running a P trim turbine wheel in a t3 4 bolt turbine housing but....it doesnt seem to make any difference when compared with a t4 turbine if you keep a/r similar.

The chrysler compressor covers are just so rediculously small compared to the cover meant for to4e wheels.

I would chide a person more for clipping a turbo then for running a big wheel in a small turbine housing though.

[Shadow]

I would chide a person more for clipping a turbo then for running a big wheel in a small turbine housing though.

That's hilarious! (you'd have to know me better to get the joke) I've had great results with clipped turbine wheels, but like i keep telling everyone...you can't just clip ANY turbine wheel. It depends on the type of wheel before it's clipped!

[BadAssPerformance]

Point taken. I'll still never be a fan of compressor wheels in smaller housings and staged .48 A/R turbine housings, but to each there own.

True, it is not as efficent, but... The local record for a FM Enforcer 2 (T04 wheel in T03 comp housing) is 11.27@121.91 mph... in a stick car... on ~20psi

[Shadow]

True, it is not as efficent, but... The local record for a FM Enforcer 2 (T04 wheel in T03 comp housing) is 11.27@121.91 mph... in a stick car... on ~20psi

How much NOS/ALCY?