More boost than expected

[Twisted Noodle]

Ok so I bought what I thought was a stock SL. I have been enjoying myself reading about it here and doing little things to it. I have bought a boost gauge and used a Narrow band A/F Monitor that I had laying around and snuck them cleverly (I think) in my dash. Made my own cold air intake. Replaced an alternator and then a PM that I thought I needed because my meter was reading 18.4 volts. Turns out my meter just needed new batteries... WTF?
I have a FWD performance LM Stage 4 I bought from another member here and just for giggles put it in and went for a drive. (Running so rich the car hardly idles until it warms up).

So... at WOT my boost gauge (autometer) reads around 13-14 psi of boost everything cuts out, when I say cuts out, I mean my narrow band looks as if it looses power for a split second. In the daylight you can see a big puff of smoke out the tailpipe. So I figure ok, it's the LM on a stock motor.. I put in my stock LM and go for another rip and the problem is fixed but my gauge still reads 10 to 12 psi ot WOT at around 4000 to 4500 RPMs is that right? The narrow band (not sure how accurate) reads pretty rich. Then I notice I lose a little boost. It turns out my dipstick is popping out. Could this be the way my stock vacuum sytem is still intact ( no catch can)? or do you think my motor mounts, or lack there of, could be the culprit?

I know I am asking a lot of questions but I tried weeding through all the old posts and not really finding exactly what I was looking for. I might just be a little bit on the dumb side and need thing pointed out for me.

I also have a question about my tranny having difficulty getting it into gear if after I miss a shift... but that will be a whole other post. I actually have to stop and force it into 1st or 2nd and then continue on. Ok I guess I'll slip it in here... Technically, can I get off topic on my own post?

Thanks guys in advance. I look up to you guys here and look forward to adsorbing (not absorbing) your wealth of knowledge.

[Twisted Noodle]

Alright so what I have found so far is...
I took off the air box a while ago when I did the cold air intake, but there is that line that I believe goes from the pcv valve to the air box. Mine never had that. So am I correct in thinking that is the reason the dipstick is popping out? There doesn't seem to be any type of a vent.

[turbovanman²]

The dipstick popping out can be due to a worn engine or incorrect pcv system.

On yours, there should be a 3 way rubber T on the valve cover, one side to the vc, one side to the pcv and one side to a fresh air source or catch can.

[Twisted Noodle]

That's what I lack

[chilort]

How are you controlling the boost? Are you using an external controller? If you are not, and are still using the computer to control boost, I believe the LM actually has some learning capability (called "adaptives" I believe). It actually takes the LM a bit to learn how it needs to control the waste gate solenoid. It can take a few spirited drives before it learns. Is this why the FWD Perf cal is going wonky? Well, I can't answer that question.

What year is the car? What transmission is in it?

I know with my 525 there are U shaped ... shims ... not really shims, hell, I don't know what they are called but they keep the shift cables in place. Those U shaped things back out and allow quite a bit of slop. Finally getting those firmly back in place (which took a year or so of messing with them) can make a big difference. There are many other things that can keep transmission from shifting properly though.

Hope this helps. And have fun.

[moparzrule]

Are you sure it's a stage 4 calibration? The stage 4 requires a 3 bar MAP sensor and +40 injectors.
If it runs fine on the stock calibration, you don't have a 3 bar and +40's!

[Twisted Noodle]

I am not currently controlling boost with anything more than the computer. I have a couple grainger valves to use when I get all this stuff figured out. I want to do a dual stage boost set up, when the time comes.

I bought the computer from someone on the TD message board. I may not have the same set up as he did. He told me his car (from what he could remember) was mostly stock except for a 3" exhaust. When I put it in my car it runs pig rich and hardly idles until after I take a few "spirited" runs, then it will idle.. but still stalls frequently.

My car is a 87 Shelby Lancer. Not entirely sure if it is the 520 or 555 (lack of research). I've only had the car for 3 weeks and been too busy working out the bugs to even start to begin on the tranny. I will definitely check out the shims and the bushings tonight. Thank you
Nate

[Twisted Noodle]

Are you sure it's a stage 4 calibration? The stage 4 requires a 3 bar MAP sensor and +40 injectors.
If it runs fine on the stock calibration, you don't have a 3 bar and +40's!

I suppose I should say. I was told it was a stage 4. It definitely isn't stock. The car runs way different.

Now why do I need a 3 bar map? Is it because of the amount of boost? or is it something that the computer looks for? is the diode trick a substitute for the 3 bar?

[moparzrule]

If it is indeed a stage 4, than yes you need a 3 bar MAP sensor and +40 injectors for it to run properly. However, I very much doubt it's a stage 4, guessing it's a stage 3 which is still for the stock 2 bar MAP sensor.
MAP sensor's work on a 0-5 volt scale. For the 2 bar MAP, 14.7 PSI boost equals 5 volts. For the 3 bar, 29.4 PSI equals 5 volts. The stock ECU is typically set to cutout at 4.67 volts, which is right around 14 PSI.

The stage 4 ECU is meant for +40 injectors, which flow almost double what stock injectors flow. If you had those, it would be flooding your engine out with fuel running the stock ECU.

The Diode is not a substitute for the 3 bar. It's the el-cheapo dangerous back alley mod that only tricks the ECU. For the stock ECU you have to use a 4.3 volt zener diode, at 4.3 volts thats roughly 11-12 PSI boost. This means the ECU will never know that your engine is above 11-12 PSI boost. So, you won't hit overboost, but your ECU will not add fuel or take away anymore timing either. Thats dangerous. I should say that I was running the mopar performance stage 2 ECU, which means I could use the 4.7 volt diode, so my ECU was actually seeing 14 PSI. A little safer than only seeing 11-12 PSI.


What you need to do is find out what injectors you have, and what MAP sensor first. Find the injector part number, and if you can take a pic of the MAP sensor and post it up? I can tell you if it's stock or not with just a quick peak.

Oh yeah one more question, what year is your SL?

[Aries_Turbo]

newfane... my wifes folks live in lockport.

you aint gonna drive that in the salt are you (wags finger menacingly!)

Brian

[Twisted Noodle]

My SL is an 87. I believe the injectors are stock. here is a photo of the left side (facing) of the engine bay. I believe it is a stock 2 bar map. Like I said, I bought the computer off of someone on Turbododge that told me it was a stage 4. He also told me his car was stock except for a 3 inch exhaust and maybe +20 injectors. When I run the FWD performance LM it runs really really rich to the point where my eyes water if you get near the car. I was actually thinking about the question I asked about the the map sensor. I came up with the same conclusion you gave me. The idea anyways not down to the exact voltage. What would make the car run so rich with the aftermarket LM? Anyway, I appreciate the help and I will try to get a picture uploaded... not sure how to do it.

[Twisted Noodle]

newfane... my wifes folks live in lockport.

you aint gonna drive that in the salt are you (wags finger menacingly!)

Brian

No no.. it will be put up when the snow starts to fly. I just got it on the road so I am trying to have some fun before that happens..

[Aries_Turbo]

hehe, just making sure.

next time im at the in-laws, i should stop out and see the car.

[Twisted Noodle]

Definitely do ! I would love to meet someone else that owns a TD. I can't find anyone else around here

Do you know Joe Shembeda? He works for Simplex out of Rochester. Also from PA.. Bradford to be exact

[Aries_Turbo]

yes i do know joe. i work with him at simplex. how do you know him?

im originally from Acme PA, westmoreland county ~45 min southeast of pittsburgh.

[moparzrule]

My SL is an 87. I believe the injectors are stock. here is a photo of the left side (facing) of the engine bay. I believe it is a stock 2 bar map. Like I said, I bought the computer off of someone on Turbododge that told me it was a stage 4. He also told me his car was stock except for a 3 inch exhaust and maybe +20 injectors. When I run the FWD performance LM it runs really really rich to the point where my eyes water if you get near the car. I was actually thinking about the question I asked about the the map sensor. I came up with the same conclusion you gave me. The idea anyways not down to the exact voltage. What would make the car run so rich with the aftermarket LM? Anyway, I appreciate the help and I will try to get a picture uploaded... not sure how to do it.

You can email me the pic-
matthug@juno.com

You can only upload pics if you are a contributing member, otherwise you have to use an image hosting site like photobucket which actually most people use anyway.

Why don't you pop open that stock LM and see if it's been socketed/different chip added, that would tell a story realy quick!
If you could check the part number on the injectors it would be really useful as well! Right now I'm thinking you have +20's and a custom cal for it, the FWD LM is a stage 3 which is for stock injectors.

[2.216VTurbo]

Definitely do ! I would love to meet someone else that owns a TD. I can't find anyone else around here

yes i do know joe. i work with him at simplex. how do you know him?

im originally from Acme PA, westmoreland county ~45 min southeast of pittsburgh.

Awww, I feel a love connection for Aries and twisted happening Does anybody else feel it too? Don't you guys let what happened in California on Prop 8 stand in your way I don't judge you Brian

[Twisted Noodle]

alright alright... OFF TOPIC !!! heh heh

[Twisted Noodle]

What you need to do is find out what injectors you have, and what MAP sensor first. Find the injector part number, and if you can take a pic of the MAP sensor and post it up? I can tell you if it's stock or not with just a quick peak.

You can only upload pics if you are a contributing member

So now I am contributing so here are the pics. I threw in the second photo because you can see where someone spliced in a wire to the purple with a black or orange trace, and the black wire with a white tracer.

If you click on the photo and hold <ctrl> and press the + key you can zoom in really close.

[Aries_Turbo]

Awww, I feel a love connection for Aries and twisted happening Does anybody else feel it too? Don't you guys let what happened in California on Prop 8 stand in your way I don't judge you Brian

i can always go to Connecticut..... then again, im not a gazer like you and frank!