My car is faster than I thought!

[moparzrule]

Went to Cecil today, track conditions beautiful. 40 degree's or so, and sunny. I went today looking for some 12's in my shadow.
First run out, bad burnout I didn't make it past the water box so my tires still had water on them! I'm still a greenhorn when it comes to launching on slicks and/or doing the burnout to heat them up with a 5 speed. Anyway, just sat there and spun in 1st gear so I shifted into second and it bogged. I got a 2.8 short time and a 15.1 at 108 MPH. So I was like OK, I just need practice.
Early on there wasn't many people there so I was pretty much going around and running again right away. Got a couple decent launches but nothing worth mentioning. Next time up, cut a 1.89 short time but about the 1000' mark I blew an IC hose, found out the vacuum line for my BOV popped off and made me blow it on the shift to 4th gear. BUT, I still managed a 12.9 at 92 MPH!!! So I was like holy crap I still got a 12 letting off at 1000 feet so this thing has plenty more to go!
Fixed the IC line, got the universal all purpose turbo mopar item to fix the BOV line, a zip tie courtesy of Mike Marra. Got up there, did a nice burnout, cut a 1.83 short time and ran a 12.37 at 111.75 MPH. WOW! I'm pretty happy. Unfortunately on the next run I lifted the head and it blew the gasket. Think I ran into a little detonation cuz the spark plug procelain's were loose, kinda hard to explain but I showed Steve menegon and Mike and they had never seen that before.
So, I don't think a 12.37 is bad for a full weight shadow, 22 PSI boost on pump gas 93 octane with 2 gallons of help from some good stuff just as insurance (still a pump gas tune on my cal though, didn't change anything at all timing wise), and only 22'' M/T slicks.
BTW, all items on my car are self ported, stock valve swirl head, exhaust manifold, and 2 piece intake manifold all ported by myself.
If I hadn't lifted the head and blown the gasket I would have stuck some more race gas in and turned up the boost, changed my cal a little for some more timing and got myself some 11's. Damn so close.

Here's the 2 timeslips of the 12's, I'm car 105, sorry about the pic being a little blurry but I think you can still make everything out-

[cordes]

Good for you! That is great to hear. Keep up the good work and you will be flying (not that low 12s isn't flying already).

[badandy]

Good job...that's exciting!...but frankly I'm not surprised with you running those times from what I know of you. I am a tad surprised you lifted the head though...it sounds like your timing was pretty aggressive for 22 psi on pump/race gas mix. Aren't you running alky? No doubt your port work rounded out the package nicely...speaking of which I have a 2 piece lower that needs alot of loving if your up for the task?

[moparzrule]

Thanks!

My buddy in his 77 trans am went down with me....he has a built 455 in it thats pretty strong. But he only wanted to run his street tires for fear of breaking the stock weak 10 bolt rear and I can't blame him. With my 12.3 slip that was him in the left lane! It was my best run, but his worst. He managed a 13.74@98 MPH with a 2.1 short time. Not bad considering the weight of the car, with some slicks and a 1.80 he would be low 13's no problem. I told him months ago when he gave me a ride in his car that would run 13's, and that I would spank him. I just didn't think I'd beat him so badly! LOL. He wasn't pissed or anything, he was happy with his 13.74.

[turbovanman²]

Nice runs,

I doubt you lifted the head, you just simply blew the gasket out due to detonation, been there, done that,

[moparzrule]

Good job...that's exciting!...but frankly I'm not surprised with you running those times from what I know of you. I am a tad surprised you lifted the head though...it sounds like your timing was pretty aggressive for 22 psi on pump/race gas mix. Aren't you running alky? No doubt your port work rounded out the package nicely...speaking of which I have a 2 piece lower that needs alot of loving if your up for the task?

Well I'm pretty sure it lifted because that was ~the 6th time I used those mopar head bolts.
No alky, and I'm pulling about 14 degree's of timing at 22 PSI boost in my cal!

Just a lower? Need an upper section to match it too! Or are you going with one of Aaron's upper plenum's?

[moparzrule]

Nice runs,

I doubt you lifted the head, you just simply blew the gasket out due to detonation, been there, done that,

Perhaps, but you posted just before I explained to Andy that that was the 6th or so time I re-used those head bolts LOL.
I used the Gary D method though, after the 65ftlb torque I set it to 100 and made sure they all hit 100 before the 1/4 turn was done and they did.

I think it lifted because when I took out spark plugs 2 and 3 there was steam/smoke or whatever coming out of both holes so the gasket blew and made a bridge between the cylinders I guess.

[omni_840]

Nice runs Too bad about your HG

[moparzrule]

Thanks.


Andy, it is a little aggressive for a pump gas tune. Basically I was just using my CEL flash on knock and kept turning it up until it knocked and then backed it off some. I do have the knock table voltage set higher than stock though because I have Wiseco's. But I was looking at some of Rob's cal's and he's pulling 22 degree's by 20 PSI in his. BUT, I have a decent bit of metal taken out of the chambers in this head so I thought that might make a little bit of difference.

[badandy]

Well I'm pretty sure it lifted because that was ~the 6th time I used those mopar head bolts.
No alky, and I'm pulling about 14 degree's of timing at 22 PSI boost in my cal!

Just a lower? Need an upper section to match it too! Or are you going with one of Aaron's upper plenum's?

Perhaps it was the bolts but you used the method I've used forever and it's always been solid for me...however those bolts might have fatigued under the stress and heat? I'm assuming your prep during assembly was top notch?

14 degrees at 22 psi?...hmmm, I'm no cal master (yet) but I'm pulling 20 at 23 lbs. on the full throttle table...granted that might be a bit much...but 14 sounds awfully hot to me unless on full race gas or a heavy dose of alky

Just the lower ...but when I tell you I want some loving done I mean as good as it gets. There will be a special upper going on top

[Greedy]

Went to Cecil today, track conditions beautiful. 40 degree's or so, and sunny. I went today looking for some 12's in my shadow.
First run out, bad burnout I didn't make it past the water box so my tires still had water on them! I'm still a greenhorn when it comes to launching on slicks and/or doing the burnout to heat them up with a 5 speed. Anyway, just sat there and spun in 1st gear so I shifted into second and it bogged. I got a 2.8 short time and a 15.1 at 108 MPH. So I was like OK, I just need practice.
Early on there wasn't many people there so I was pretty much going around and running again right away. Got a couple decent launches but nothing worth mentioning. Next time up, cut a 1.89 short time but about the 1000' mark I blew an IC hose, found out the vacuum line for my BOV popped off and made me blow it on the shift to 4th gear. BUT, I still managed a 12.9 at 92 MPH!!! So I was like holy crap I still got a 12 letting off at 1000 feet so this thing has plenty more to go!
Fixed the IC line, got the universal all purpose turbo mopar item to fix the BOV line, a zip tie courtesy of Mike Marra. Got up there, did a nice burnout, cut a 1.83 short time and ran a 12.37 at 111.75 MPH. WOW! I'm pretty happy. Unfortunately on the next run I lifted the head and it blew the gasket. Think I ran into a little detonation cuz the spark plug procelain's were loose, kinda hard to explain but I showed Steve menegon and Mike and they had never seen that before.
So, I don't think a 12.37 is bad for a full weight shadow, 22 PSI boost on pump gas 93 octane with 2 gallons of help from some good stuff just as insurance (still a pump gas tune on my cal though, didn't change anything at all timing wise), and only 22'' M/T slicks.
BTW, all items on my car are self ported, stock valve swirl head, exhaust manifold, and 2 piece intake manifold all ported by myself.
If I hadn't lifted the head and blown the gasket I would have stuck some more race gas in and turned up the boost, changed my cal a little for some more timing and got myself some 11's. Damn so close.

Here's the 2 timeslips of the 12's, I'm car 105, sorry about the pic being a little blurry but I think you can still make everything out-

Congratulations!
Nice job Matt!
I would have been there to see it if I didn't have to work today.

[moparzrule]

Also wanted to say that autolite 63 plugs are poop. Never had this problem with champion 9YC's and the 63's are suppose to be the 9yc equivelant. I've run into much worse detonation with 9Yc's, so much that I broke pistons and never had anything happen to the plug.

[badandy]

Perhaps, but you posted just before I explained to Andy that that was the 6th or so time I re-used those head bolts LOL.
I used the Gary D method though, after the 65ftlb torque I set it to 100 and made sure they all hit 100 before the 1/4 turn was done and they did.

I think it lifted because when I took out spark plugs 2 and 3 there was steam/smoke or whatever coming out of both holes so the gasket blew and made a bridge between the cylinders I guess.

BTW that "method" I think originated in the very first 2.2 engine secrets book...at least that's where I got it from some 15 years ago I'd guess...not taking anything away from Gary as I've always really liked and admired the man for his talents.

[moparzrule]

Perhaps it was the bolts but you used the method I've used forever and it's always been solid for me...however those bolts might have fatigued under the stress and heat? I'm assuming your prep during assembly was top notch?

14 degrees at 22 psi?...hmmm, I'm no cal master (yet) but I'm pulling 20 at 23 lbs. on the full throttle table...granted that might be a bit much...but 14 sounds awfully hot to me unless on full race gas or a heavy dose of alky

Just the lower ...but when I tell you I want some loving done I mean as good as it gets. There will be a special upper going on top

Yup I made sure there was good prep on the surface of the head and block, even more reason for me to think the head lifted.

Right -14 at 22 PSI boost on the FT table. Like I said, aggressive for pump gas for sure, but with straight C16 race gas I've seen guys run advanced timing with that much boost!

Oh I see, well PM me and we can talk a little more about that 2 piece lower.

[moparzrule]

BTW that "method" I think originated in the very first 2.2 engine secrets book...at least that's where I got it from some 15 years ago I'd guess...not taking anything away from Gary as I've always really liked and admired the man for his talents.

No problem, I've only been into these cars for ~5-6 years, thats just where I read it thats all.

Gary's site is the BEST for a newbie, but I've done plenty of things since then that he doesn't recommend, and I've had success.

[badandy]

Also wanted to say that autolite 63 plugs are poop. Never had this problem with champion 9YC's and the 63's are suppose to be the 9yc equivelant. I've run into much worse detonation with 9Yc's, so much that I broke pistons and never had anything happen to the plug.

I agree in that I don't think durability is their strong suit but they have always performed just as well if not better than anything else I've ever tried. I like them because they are so cheap and can be repalced often. I've also heard that the cheaper the plug the more pure the copper in the center electrode...don't know if that still holds true though. I tend to replace plugs often.

[moparzrule]

Congratulations!
Nice job Matt!
I would have been there to see it if I didn't have to work today.

Thanks Mike!

That sucks, but I had to work yesterday so I understand!

[moparzrule]

I agree in that I don't think durability is their strong suit but they have always performed just as well if not better than anything else I've ever tried. I like them because they are so cheap and can be repalced often. I've also heard that the cheaper the plug the more pure the copper in the center electrode...don't know if that still holds true though. I tend to replace plugs often.

Same here, probably every 1000 miles, but they are hard miles and I only put 4000 on my car this year.
The champion plugs are the same price. But Advance auto is 1 mile from my house (where I got the autolites), and autozone is 5-6 miles and I was in a time pinch so I went with the 63's. Advance only stocks the champion 12yc's.

[badandy]

No problem, I've only been into these cars for ~5-6 years, thats just where I read it thats all.

Gary's site is the BEST for a newbie, but I've done plenty of things since then that he doesn't recommend, and I've had success.

Yeah We've been over that...hehe

I'm sure his site could use some updating and I'm sure even Gary himself would change some of his findings/information if he were still around and into the cars. I've done a few things differently too over the years and got away with it...but my luck seems to be better than most. I do tend to be more careful though.

Anyway...back to the topic at hand. I'd be willing to bet your car has some more in the tune. Once again good job I'll PM you with the porting...keep in mind what I'm looking for and we will talk over the damage when time comes.

later

[badandy]

Same here, probably every 1000 miles, but they are hard miles and I only put 4000 on my car this year.
The champion plugs are the same price. But Advance auto is 1 mile from my house (where I got the autolites), and autozone is 5-6 miles and I was in a time pinch so I went with the 63's. Advance only stocks the champion 12yc's.

You do know we can order whatever you want right?...usually same day or next day at the worst. Order enough to stock up a bit