Official 87 CSX 581 Thread

[mcglsr2]

INTRO
hey everyone, i'm going to be making some changes to the car. i've been wanting to do this for a while now, just never really got the chance. so now that i have the opportunity to, i'll keep a log here of the things i'll be doing.

it might be hard to separate what's new from what's old on this thread since i'll be updating existing posts quite a bit, i will keep a "last edited" list at the bottom of this post, as well as occasionally create a new post with my thoughts or pointing out new updates. the edits at the bottom will be listed in order of most recent.

i'll lay this thread out with sections. each section will be specifically about some portion of the car i will be working on/updating. there's no real rhyme or reason to the order of the sections.

sections

• BOV: POST #69
• CALIBRATIONS: POST #70
• CLUTCH & FLYWHEEL: POST #71
• ECU: POST #11
• FMIC: POST #56
• HEAD: POST #41
• INJECTORS & MAP: POST #55
• INTERIOR: POST #25
• LSD: POST #68
• MISC ENGINE STUFF: POST #105
• PCV UPDATE: POST #59
• SUSPENSION: POST #26
• TRACK & DYNO: POST #66
• WHEELS: POST #4
• WIDEBAND O2, EGT & DATALOGGING: POST #17

a little background on the car
it's a 1987 shelby csx, purchased in 1989. it sat on the lot for 2 years until my dad bought it. it was his daily driver until i started to learn to drive. that was the car i learned on. at first i didn't really know what it was. i was looking at buying my "own" car. but as i drove the shelby more, i started loving it more and more, until it got to the point that i didn't want any other car. i ended up buying it from my dad. it was my daily driver until it became unrealiable on the 8+ hour drive between home and college. so i got a 99 saturn sl2 as the daily, and the shelby stayed home until i came back from college. now it's my fun car, and i still really enjoy driving it. it's such a blast.

the car stayed essentially stock up until i got back from college. my father and i did a few things here and there. here are the specs on the car:

• 1987 stage II/csx ECU
• factory airbox replaced by smooth pipe with un-modded 1G BOV attached
• k&n cone filter on stock turbo compressor inlet pipe
• 180 deg thermostat with donovan hole drilled in top
• 804 injectors - update: or so i thought. after pulling the injectors out, they are actually 5277895, 34# ones. stock was 33.25#. apparently, even though we purchased the 804 injectors, some mix-up at the factory landed us injectors that were NOT 804s. the packaging did say 804. so that was interesting to learn.
• mpgmike ported exhaust manifold
• TU rebuilt stock turbo with stainless lines
• TU 3" swingvalve
• TU 3" downpipe
• FWDP 3" exhaust pipes
• 3" dynomax race bullet muffler in place of cat
• 3" dynomax race bullet muffler at end of exhaust
• custom 2-stage g-vavle MBCs for low & high boost
• gus mahon grainger/bleed in MAP boost line
• custom shift light in stock tach
• auto meter cobalt boost gauge
• nordskog EGT gauge (which doesn't work)
• Intellitronix-like O2 gauge (don't remember brand exactly)
• car has been painted completely black, which looks better then the gray bottom IMO

original parts
since the car has been in the family since it's original purchase, we've been in a good position to keep everything off the car as things break and get changed out. for example, the stock 520 broke on me at one point. a 555 was dropped in in place of it. i still have the 520 sitting in my garage. i still have the original factory injectors, i even have the original lug nuts. granted they are bad shape as they were on the car for over 15 years, but i still have them. i still have the original computer that got swapped for the stage 2 one, things like that. i've tried to be diligent about keeping records as well, so i have a pretty thick folder of receipts and stuff.

along the way, i've also found 2 build sheets in the car. one was sewn into one of the seats - when i had the seats reupholstered at some point in the past, the people that did it found the build sheet and gave it me. also, more recently, i replaced the carpet and found another build sheet under the carpet on the rear passenger side.


what i want to get out of the car
since this is a numbered car, i don't really plan on going all out. i don't want to make any modifications to the car that i couldn't undo later if i wanted to. so i tried to set some reasonable goals for the car that would satisfy the speed monster in me and also satisfy the sensible side. so, i'm currently looking for:

• 250whp to 270whp, somewhere in that range. boost will be whatever i need to support this - the lower the better, but i'm thinking 27psi max. i'll have to see.
• low 13's in the quarter - this would require me learning how to drive the car though
• the car already handles pretty well. i wouldn't mind improving on the handling, but not at the expense of cutting/welding any mounts or the frame or anything like that

getting an initial baseline...sort of
i took the car to the dyno on oct 30th, for a baseline run. i learned some interesting stuff. here are the results from the dyno session, i made 2 runs:

• Run 1: ~17psi; 194.92whp @ 5200rpm; 229.93lb-ft @ 4000rpm; ~12.5-13 A/F
• Run 2: ~21psi; 215.81whp @ 4700rpm; 248.44lb-ft @ 4300rpm; ~14 A/F starting at 4000 rpm

issue #1 is fueling, the car is too lean. which makes sense considering i have injectors in there that aren't even 1# more then the stock ones. at 5 to 9 more psi then stock, lack of fuel WILL be a problem. also, i'm not convinced that the boost numbers above are accurate. i think my BOV was leaking, so it's quite possible that the compressor was making even more boost, which would increase the intake manifold charge temp, lowering power. so i think those numbers are all hosed up and i don't put a lot of faith in them right now, especially the second run.


upcoming changes
i have a whole slew of things i want to modify/improve. here is a list of the things that i will be changing, along with an indication on the progess of that item. each of the sections listed at the top of this post will contain more details about what's going on with these items.

my overall plan of attack will be to make some big changes, then slowly work up to the hp gain realized from those changes. then perhaps some additional changes, more tuning, so on and so forth. i will try to approach things in the following order:

1. create socketed LM using baseline CSX Stage II calibration POST #11 - COMPLETE!
2. replace narrowband O2 wideband unit POST #17 - COMPLETE!
3. verify car functions properly with wideband unit, datalogging, and narrowband O2 signal to LM POST #17 - COMPLETE!
4. create custom cal for 2Bar, 36# inj, 12psi POST #70 - COMPLETE!
5. upgrade to 3 Bar map POST #55 - COMPLETE!
6. create/update cal for 3Bar, 36# inj, 15psi POST #70 - COMPLETE!
7. upgrade to larger injectors POST #55 - awaiting install...
8. acquire and install ported head POST #41 - in progress...
9. install new EGT probe POST #17 - awaiting install...
10. do something with the BOV, either modify the 1G for high boost or get an aftermarket one. i'm looking at the HKS SSQV right now... POST #69 - awaiting install...
11. create/update cal for 3Bar, 72s (72#) inj, 12psi, ported head POST #70 - COMPLETE!
12. street tune cal
13. create/update cal for 17psi POST #70 -
14. street tune cal if possible, dyno tune otherwise
15. create/update cal for 21psi POST #70 -
16. street tune cal if possible, dyno tune otherwise
17. replace stock i/c with fmic unit from treadstone & reroute turbo compressor inlet to get fresh air and not underhood air POST #56
18. create/update cal for max safe psi (goal is 27psi) POST #70 -
19. evaluate dynos for improvements/gains/goals

in addition to this, there are supporting mods that i want to do that may not directly fit into the ordering above, or are exclusive from the ordering. those items are listed here:

• new, wider rims POST #4 - COMPLETE!
• new coil seats for the front struts POST #26 - COMPLETE!
• new carpet for the car POST #25 - COMPLETE!
• seat covers for the torn up seats until i decide to get them reupholstered POST #25 - COMPLETE!
• do something with the seatbelts POST #25 - COMPLETE!
• clean/paint interior panels POST #25 - COMPLETE!
• new interior roof panel thing - water leaks and time have made it crack and sag POST #25 - COMPLETE!
• exterior paint job (very badly needed) & new vent visors - waiting for paint job prior to install...
• positive impression decals - waiting for paint job before application...
• i would like to get some shelby floor mats, i'll have to see what i can find
• a new clutch POST #71 -
• new 255 fuel pump, depending on whether the stock can keep up with the new injectors and flow demand...
• paint engine bay and components...
• update PCV system POST #59 - in progress...
• install LSD POST #68 - paid deposit...

results from changes
the results from these changes will be documented in the DYNO & TRACK post. i also started a video compilation of the work that will be going into the car. i'm not done with it yet (as i'm not done with the car ) but here's what i got so far:
Vid Compilation


Recent Edits:
- updated ECU post (07/23/2009)
- updated MISC ENGINE STUFF post (07/22/2009)
- updated CALIBRATIONS post (07/22/2009)
- updated INJECTORS & MAP post (07/22/2009)
- updated HEAD post (03/30/2009)
- updated FMIC post (03/24/2009)
- updated TRACK & DYNO post (03/21/2009)
- updated BOV post (03/18/2009)
- updated WIDEBAND O2, EGT & DATALOGGING post (03/17/2009)
- added CLUTCH & FLYWHEEL post (03/14/2009)
- added LSD post (03/13/2009)
- added PCV UPDATE post (03/09/2009)
- updated WHEELS post (01/08/2009)
- updated SUSPENSION post (01/01/2009)
- updated INTERIOR post (01/01/2009)

[cordes]

Great writeup. I can't wait to see the progress.

[Tony Hanna]

I love a good project thread!

[mcglsr2]

WHEELS
okay, so i've done some research on wheels, i've been wanting to change them out for a while now, i could never justify the cost though so it never happened. and there was other stuff i wanted to do with the money on the car. recently, i've put a little more focus into it. for the longest time, i've wanted to run black wheels with a polished/silver rim.

my goals in a wheel, in order, are:

• width (7")
• cost
• weight
• appearance

not on this list, but of course a huge player is availability. whether i can get the wheel, and get it in the correct bolt pattern. so i did some looking around, immediately i found some MB Drifters at discount tire. i like the way they look, but when i inquired as to the weight of the wheel, i got back a response of 20 lbs. i think these weigh more then the stock wheels! so while the look and price are right on, these wheels defeat the whole point of me getting new rims: improved performance. so i found a couple other wheels. after a point, i began wondering what they would look like on the car. i've a gnat's chance in a windstorm of finding a shadow with the wheels i want to see already on it, so off to some image editing...


(the smiley faces are the look/weight/price combos that i liked. the not-so-smiley is one that i am kind of "meh" about)

i put in some data on the wheels, and just compared them. and i think i've made a decision. and they are:

Rota Slipstream in Flat Black

these wheels also come in a gun metal with polished lip, but i don't know if the gun metal color will look good on an otherwise all black car. i wish these wheels came in black with a polished lip. i've actually seen a set online, but rota does not list this a wheel they sell, so i think those were done custom.

the wheels weigh somewhere between 12 to 12.9 lbs (conflicting info online), they are 15 x 7, 5 x 100 bolt pattern, and most importantly, i can find them for a reasonable price. at first, i didn't want the flat black wheels on the car because i was worried that it would just look dirty, and not have enough contrast. however, after seeing it on the car (in the wheel compare image), and based on the fact that i'm going performance (and cost) first, appearance second, i think these will be a good choice. super bonus: the practically brand new tires i have on the corners will also fit on these wheels, so i'm out just the cost of wheels, mounting and balancing. i know this wheel is popular with the JDM crowd, but that doesn't bother me. and i don't care if some dude at the drag strip rolls up next to me with the same wheels. the point of these wheels is not to bling the car out; just something to add a little more performance over the stock wheels while keeping a somewhat aggressive look without breaking the bank (plus, i don't want to risk ruining the stock wheels at this point, good luck getting another one...)

on to the brake calipers...the car has always had the centurion II wheels, behind which the calipers and discs are not really visible. so nothing has ever been done with them appearance-wise. they are a nice rusty brown color since these new wheels will be much more open, it just won't do to leave the calipers that color. therefore, as part of putting on the new wheels, i will also paint the calipers. i'll see about cleaning up the discs but i'm not sure i can do much there.

i'm thinking 1 of 2 ways to go with the calipers: i will either paint them gloss black to match the car and contrast a little with the flat black rims OR i will paint them a color that matches the blue stripe on the body. i'm leaning towards the black as i'm worried the blue will look a little too ricey. i need to mock up some images to see what the general effect will be. it might not be so bad. i haven't made any decisions there yet.

i haven't moved on the wheels yet as i want to square up the ECU stuff first, but these are around the corner

update (11/20/2008)
so, i come to find out that black slipstreams with a polished/machined lip are indeed available, and at the same price as the flat black ones. so now it's a question of aesthetics...do i prefer the flat black look or the polished lip/glossy black look (the bottom left and bottom right pics in the wheel compare image)...tough to decide.

...and upon further deliberation, i have decided upon the flat black. i have chosen these because when i really got to looking at the car, i realized that nothing else on it was silver/polished. the trim around the windows, the door handles, trim around the bumpers, all of it was blacked out. even the antenna is black. in fact, the only other silver on the car (besides the original wheels) is the rear shelby trunk badge - it has some silver accents. that's it. so, in keeping with the blacked out theme, i am going with the flat black wheels. i have also decided to plaint the calipers glossy black. the blue will just look too ricey i think. so now i have a plan for the wheels. now i just need the money...

update (11/25/2008)
so i found out that wheel is available in a 7.5" width as well. after a flurry of research, and talking with the people selling it, it's only available in a 4-lug bolt pattern. oh well, i'm not sure it would fit anyway. it could have, but i'm not sure if i would have had to modify anything.

i also pondered 16x8" wheels. wishful thinking. besides, i've got like 5000 miles on my current tread, so it would be some time (years...?) before i would be able to purchase larger tires to go with the larger wheels as i'm not in the habit of replacing perfectly good tires.

sooo, 15x7" it is, and some black chrome tuner style locking lug nuts to go with them! looking forward to it...

a positive here is that the hub bore on the 5x100 slipstreams is 57.1mm, which is what it is for our cars. so no hubcentric rings needed. bonus.

update (12/01/2008)
ordered the wheels and some gorilla black chrome acorn style locking lugnuts. i was told that tuner style lugnuts were not necessary for these wheels. i hope that holds true. looking forward to getting them! shipping towards the end of this week.

update (12/13/2008)
the wheels arrived, and i had them installed yesterday evening. i took some pics of the car before i went off to get them done:






new wheels:






i'm really happy with how they turned out. the rear wheels right now don't have a center cap on them as 2 of them arrived broken. i am waiting for the guy to ship me two new ones.

oh...wah...wait, what's that you say, car? you what? you need a paint job? i know...i know. lol, once i get a nw paint job, the car will look really nice. i ordered a new set of decals from Dave at Positive Impressions, so they'll be ready to go once the car does get painted. i really wish i could pick up a set of floor mats from him like he used to make. you hear that Dave, floor mats!

interesting thing to note, and this could totally be my imagination, but i think the car gets more looks now with the new rims. i guess with the old, stockish rims, there was nothing "special" that jumped out. not so much the case now. pretty funny, but when i had the car parked in the lot today at my apartment screwing with the engine trouble i had (that turned out to be a power steering pump issue), several people practically broke their necks looking at the car as they drove by. probably wondering what that POS with the sweet rims is...

update (12/15/2008)
i weighed a centurion II wheel, came out to 19.8 lbs. if we assume 5 lbs of rotational weight for each lb of static weight on the front (drive) wheels, and 3 lbs of rotational weight for each lb of static weight on the rear wheels, then the original wheels were like 158.4 lbs. these new wheels are down to 103.2 lbs, for a [supposed] savings of about 55.2 lbs. if we just go off of static weight, the car is now about 28 lbs lighter, for 1 in wider rims. not bad.

update (01/08/2009)
i just realized i forgot to mention anything about the calipers - i decided not to paint them. they don't look bad at all behind the wheels. i thought they would look terrible, but not the case. i'm sure they would look better painted, but too much trouble right now. i want to to focus my time on the engine right now. i may come back some day and paint them, but it's not really needed at this point.

[SoCalCSX]

About your fueling, I know`the stage II cal can run +20's with success. Ran very well in a friends GLHS. Oh and the Slipstreams FTW

[omni_840]

Nice write up

I honestly like the centurions, but I also like black wheels on a black car

[mcglsr2]

About your fueling, I know`the stage II cal can run +20's with success. Ran very well in a friends GLHS. Oh and the Slipstreams FTW

that's good to know, i always thought anything above about 5% the computer couldn't handle. however, i'm already in motion with a custom cal (write up coming, as soon as i get a chance to get some pics to go along with it) so i guess it will be a moot point for me. my current plans are the +40s

and i am starting to like me some slipsteams

Nice write up

I honestly like the centurions, but I also like black wheels on a black car

i like the "stock" look of the wheels, but with the age of the car, all it will take is a really nasty pothole and some speed and i end up with a bent rim. and i know i'll have trouble finding another one. i may get lucky but why risk it. i'd rather risk some aftermarket wheels. have said that, the centurion IIs have lasted on that car for 21 years now...

[Tony Hanna]

About your fueling, I know`the stage II cal can run +20's with success. Ran very well in a friends GLHS. Oh and the Slipstreams FTW

+1 on the Slipstreams. Nice looking wheel.

[CSXVNT461]

I like the XXR 503. I think the slipstreams look to modern/tuner style, a car like this needs something more unique.

[mcglsr2]

I like the XXR 503. I think the slipstreams look to modern/tuner style, a car like this needs something more unique.

actually, i think my ideal wheels would be the Rota GT3s, i really like the way they look on the car and they don't look too tuner-ish. however, i can't seem to find the blck ones in a 5x100 bolt pattern. plus, the ones i could find (in the other bolt patterns) were more expensive then the slipstreams AND they weigh more. it seems the slipstreams are a compromise then, but only on looks. they are actually "better" then the GT3 on the other counts...

ECU update coming soon (like later today) - i haven't had a chance to take any pictures of what i've done so far.

[mcglsr2]

ECU

goals:

• create a socketed logic module

originally, i was planning on going with the stage 4 or 5 ECU from FWDP. however, i ended up deciding to roll my own. if, for some reason, i fail miserably at it, i can still opt for the FWDP cal.

first things first, before i can start burning chips, i gotta get a few things. i also needed to read up on it as well. with the help of cordes and aries_turbo (thanks guys!) pointing me in the right directions, i started buying up some stuff and reading up on some stuff. my main sources were the knowledge center here and cordes' site omniglht.

i ended up getting a different programmer then what these suggested though. i want to be able to burn new chips in the car right at the dyno or track and the laptop i will be getting for this does not have a parallel port, so the suggested programmer was out. i need a USB version. because of this, the overall cost of burning my own chips went up, but money well worth it IMO. the programmer i got is a willem GQ-4X true usb. it uses the USB cable for data transfer and power, so it's the only cable you need. also, there are no dip switches, that's all covered for you behind the scenes in the software. lastly, it's got a plastic case enclosure on it - since i would be bringing this in the car with me, i didn't really want exposed chips and circuits just asking to be damaged. the unit i got was the "lite" version, meaning it didn't come with some adapters but i didn't care. i got it from mcumall for around $100. here's a pic of it:


once i got the programmer squared away, i needed to get the ZIF socket and chip. when i went to mcumall to get the programmer, i also looked for a ZIF socket. the only one i found in the correct number of pins (28) was a low profile one - which turned out to be exactly what i wanted anyway. if you are following along at cordes site, it looks different. it doesn't have the huge handle and from my test fitting, it doesn't need to be cut at all to fit the "yellow thingie" (official cordes description ) on the board. i also got the STS27SF512 flash memory from mouser. here's a pic of the two of them:

the blue sticker on the chip is a label i added - it's the "stock" 1987 stage II csx code. i will be keeping a couple different chips (rather then continually re-burning over the same one) for test and reliability purposes. the labels will let me tell them apart. using the burner was pretty straightforward. i had to set an offset, and play with the software a bit, but i was able to burn the chip you see in the picture within 20 minutes of installing the software. it took about 6 sec to burn the chip.

i picked up a desoldering iron from radioshack (i already have a soldering iron).

lastly, i need a LM. i purchased a 1987 T1 LM off of a member here on turbo-mopar (thanks moparfwdsleeper). i've desoldered the original EPROM. here's the board, with the missing chip in the lower right:


here is the ZIF socketed in the board:


once installed in the car...
testing:

• car start up - passed
• car cruising - passed
• car @ 17psi boost - passed

results:
with the "new" calibration in, the car started up just fine. i ran it around a little, gentle on the throttle and the car behaved nicely. idled a little high at first but settled down eventually. i then went on a couple roads here and opened it up some; boosted just fine. i need to drive the car around for a couple days to make sure it is running as it was, but so far from what i can tell the "new" computer is working perfectly. "stock" custom cal FTW and on to the next items on the list!

update (03/14/2009)
so i've been using the burner for a while now, works great! i'm really happy with the one i got

update (04/02/2009)
i got tired of having to unplug the ECU each time i wanted to swap a chip, and i was worried about over-stressing and breaking the connectors. so i got a T-I case with the integrated MAP sensor, pulled the sensor off the black cover thing. it sits directly above the chip, so now all i have to do is unscrew the black cover and booyah there's the chip (i got this idea originally from cordes, just waited until now to implement it - thanks cordes!). here are some pics:




this is much nicer, and when i start painting stuff in the engine bay, i'll paint the case here to match (satin black - that idea got 'stoled' from Pat, thanks Pat! )

update (07/23/2009)
and here's the LM cover painted...



i wasn't trying to get it perfect. after all, when the car is done that will get tucked behind the kick panel and not seen. i figured it would look at least a little nice and maybe keep the rust off.

[racer-xerols]

Very cool writeup. It's nice to see another SD "family car" - my 91 Daytona CS/AGS car was originally bought by me, paperwork for insurance purposes put it in dad's name (I was 19), and transferred to me later on. Still have that car with 74k miles.

My suggestion on wheels - and it'll help the budget - find some 6.5" crabs and paint the centers black or charcoal, strip and polish the lips. You get a "period" wheel, they're far less expensive than anything aftermarket, and IMO they look great.

I'm keeping an eye on your cal progress. I have a 2.5 S70 motor ready to go in my 87 CSX and am debating whether to burn my own, or have one made....

[mcglsr2]

Very cool writeup. It's nice to see another SD "family car" - my 91 Daytona CS/AGS car was originally bought by me, paperwork for insurance purposes put it in dad's name (I was 19), and transferred to me later on. Still have that car with 74k miles.

and i'll keep it in the family as long as i can

My suggestion on wheels - and it'll help the budget - find some 6.5" crabs and paint the centers black or charcoal, strip and polish the lips. You get a "period" wheel, they're far less expensive than anything aftermarket, and IMO they look great.

i thought about doing something like that. if i did i would have a MUCH larger selection if i went with 6.5" wheels rather then 7" - but the way i see it the car already has 6" wheels. and i don't intend on buying more wheels later on. another 0.5" doesn't seem worth it to me. however, another 1" does. so i'm willing to pay a little more for 1" wider wheels, just not $200 a wheel but it's still a good suggestion though, and i will certainly consider it...

I'm keeping an eye on your cal progress. I have a 2.5 S70 motor ready to go in my 87 CSX and am debating whether to burn my own, or have one made....

i'm really excited about this - i'm hoping it turns out well. the first real test will be when i try to start the car after dropping in the new computer. it should run the same as it does now, since technically it should be no different then the current computer, other then it's a burned chip in a T1 LM of course. we shall see

[racer-xerols]

As I hunt for tires for my wide-tire CSX-VNT, I'm finding that it's getting harder and harder to find wider tires for a 15" rim. Hell, goodyear doesn't even *make* a 225/50-15 anymore. I'd factor that into your wheel choice as well...how hard is it gonna be to put new shoes on it when the time comes? Most wider tires these days are on larger diameter (17" and up) rims. Damned 'progress', LOL.

Also consider that the 6.5" / 225 tire cars had a different steering rack to prevent rubbing on full-lock turns (the wide-tire 89 CSXs had a Shelby Z rack installed). Sure, you can be careful....but there's limited wheelhouse space on these old things, compared to the caverns on newer cars.

And my CS? Put it this way...my family won't have to buy me a coffin when the time comes, LOL.

[Marcus86GLHS]

this looks like a very comprehensive and well organized project that you have illustrated here, no doubt all your goals will be reached given the thought and analysis you're putting in.

call me old school but nothing beats the looks of the stock 87 CSX wheels. where's the pix of the engine?

[mcglsr2]

As I hunt for tires for my wide-tire CSX-VNT, I'm finding that it's getting harder and harder to find wider tires for a 15" rim. Hell, goodyear doesn't even *make* a 225/50-15 anymore. I'd factor that into your wheel choice as well...how hard is it gonna be to put new shoes on it when the time comes? Most wider tires these days are on larger diameter (17" and up) rims. Damned 'progress', LOL.

Also consider that the 6.5" / 225 tire cars had a different steering rack to prevent rubbing on full-lock turns (the wide-tire 89 CSXs had a Shelby Z rack installed). Sure, you can be careful....but there's limited wheelhouse space on these old things, compared to the caverns on newer cars.

And my CS? Put it this way...my family won't have to buy me a coffin when the time comes, LOL.

i have thought about larger diameter wheels, but i'm not sure i would like the look of larger wheels on the car. almost like the wheels are too big for it. however, the availability of tires (or lack thereof) has called to mind several concerns. my current plan is to use 1" wider rims on my stock tires (205/50s). these can take up to an 8" wheel. my current understanding is that the tires, with a larger wheel, will have better traction potential then the 6" wheels (and i could be very wrong, this is a place i am somewhat ignorant in right now and need to do more reading). also, since i'm trying to emphasize a performance upgrade here besides just appearance, the lower weight of the 15" rims is very attractive. and i get to keep my newish stock sized tires.

i am VERY concerned about the fitment of the wheels. i posted a previous thread about the fitment of these wheels (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31486) and am lead to believe it won't be a problem. perhaps it's foolish to accept one answer and roll with it, but when i go to purchase the wheels, i would have already talked with the seller regarding fitment on my car. i've done some measurements for various wheel widths and offsets, and i think the setup mentioned in the WHEELS post will work...if i'm wrong, please someone set me straight...

this looks like a very comprehensive and well organized project that you have illustrated here, no doubt all your goals will be reached given the thought and analysis you're putting in.

call me old school but nothing beats the looks of the stock 87 CSX wheels. where's the pix of the engine?

i hope my goals are reached i'm there with you, i like the look of the centurion II wheels on the car, sort of a sleeper look, but not quite...but sort of. and if they were 7" wide, they would be staying on the car...

as for the pic of the engine, i just ran outside, snapped a pic and here you go:


it's not too much to look at right now, a lot of it needs cleaning and repainting. i'll get to that at some point (currently i don't have a garage so that really limits what i can do). also, the bay recently got some fresh oil sprayed all over it when the camshaft rear plug came off... it just needs a good cleaning

i will start to do some of that when i go to install the injectors and such. also, i'll revise the intake plumbing when i look at a new FMIC.

[mcglsr2]

WIDEBAND O2, EGT & DATALOGGING
i've been jumping around on which wideband unit to use. i originally had my eye on the AEM UEGO. how much simpler can it get? you install the sensor, put the gauge somewhere, and off you go. and then i got to thinking. the reason for the wideband in the first place to help me tune the custom calibration i'll be doing. well, if i'm using it to tune, i will need to know various things that are going on. i guess i need to datalog too. okay, no sweat. let's see what datalogging capabilities the AEM EUGO has...huh, lists A/F ratio in a hyper terminal on a PC, no rpm, no boost, nothing else. um, no thanks. i guess i could get a separate datalogging tool, but why make it more complicated? there are units that can do wideband and datalog. okay, moving on. eventually i came across two that i had a tough time deciding between: zeitronix and innovate motorsports. tech edge was also suggested to be a good, cheaper alternative. and i agree, it probably is. for some reason, though, they just didn't do it for me. not sure why. but i kept gravitating back to the previous two. the reality of it is that for the level of tuning i'm talking about here (after all, it's not like i'm dealing with a 2,300hp super tweaked monster of a drag queen), any of these 3 would more then cut it. they are all good choices. however, i ended up deciding to go with the zeitronix unit, called the zt-2. i like it's smallness, the software it comes with seems fine, seems easy to set up and maintain, people on this forum have said they liked it, and it monitors the things i want.

some other considerations: what to do about display/gauges? my gauges currently consist of an auto meter boost gauge, intellitronix narrowband O2 gauge, a nordskog digital EGT gauge (which doesn't work) and the stock boost gauge that reads to 15psi (which is pretty much useless). zeitronix sells this sweet LCD display that can show boost, AFR, EGT, lambda and some other stuff. but i've already got some gauges that show that. and now i hear [read] that supposedly my auto meter gauge isn't very accurate (compared to the zeitronix zt-2). auto meter is a good, reliable brand, so that makes me wonder whether it's really true. anyway. to begin with, i'm getting rid of the nordskog gauge. i am done with them (great customer service, by the way). do i replace them with another EGT gauge, such as auto meter? they have a digital cobalt that will match my boost gauge pretty nice. but so expensive. since i'm getting rid of the nordskog (gauge AND sensor, i don't trust either), i'm starting from scratch. and zeitronix sells an EGT sensor. that works out of the box with the zt-2. so there's my EGT problem solved. i'll talk about displaying it in a later paragraph.

the zt-2 can monitor boost as well. i already have a boost gauge, however, i want to datalog boost, so i can either do that by keeping track of the boost pressure during a run while also watching the road and trying not to kill myself...or i just let the zt-2 datalog it and send it off to my laptop that will accumulating this info. i will need to buy their special MAP sensor (which sucks) but whatever. i guess i could try to modify my existing MAP sensor to send the signals over the wire to the zt-2. and it may work (but probably not as the units they use are 3.5 and 5 Bar respectively, whereas i'm using 2 and 3 Bar respectively). because i want to (and need to) trust the data i'm getting from this unit, i'll go ahead and fork out some extra cash for their sensor.

i plan to datalog the following things from my soon to be purchased zt-2:

• rpm
• boost
• egt
• a/f ratio
• throttle position via TPS
• knock

that should be enough to accurately tune the car.

now let's talk about displays. while it's all well and good that the laptop i have hooked up will be getting all this great info, that's only while i'm tuning the car. at some point, i will be done tuning (lol, you are never done tuning, right? ), and the laptop won't always be in the car but i will still want to know to some degree what's going on. there's that LCD display they have...but if i did that, it would make my other gauges redundant, which is not necessarily a bad thing. however, that means my a-pillar gauge pod would have to go away, and vanity forces me to admit that i rather like it. i don't want to get rid of it just yet. it currently houses my boost gauge and narrowband A/F gauge. the latter will be removed, so now i have an available spot. even though the zt-2 will be taking care of EGT i still want to see it, along with A/F. thus i decided to go with the round zeitronix multigauge, zr-2. it can display EGT, boost, A/F, lambda, etc, just like the LCD, but not at the same time (the LCD can display up to 4 things at once). using the zr-2, i can see A/F and EGT and i get to keep my a-pillar pod which i like. that LCD sure is sweet though...

i'm going to put the wideband O2 sensor in the stock location. i know i'm not supposed to, but i don't feel like plugging it and drilling/tapping some other spot on the downpipe. if this sensor fails on me prematurely, then i'll reconsider doing it that way. in the mean time, that's where it's going.

update (12/02/2008)
ordered the zeitronix wideband O2 and datalogging system, with a ZR-2 gauge, 3.5 Bar MAP and EGT probe...

update (12/08/2008)
The Zeitronix wideband controller and assorted stuff arrived today. Here are some images...

This shows the controller, the ZR-2 multigauge, 3.5 Bar MAP sensor and assorted wiring/connectors:


This image shows the profile of the ZR-2 gauge - it's a skinny guy for surface mounting (mine happens to be going in my pillar pod):


Shown here is the Bosch O2 sensor, EGT probe and wiring, and harness for the O2 gauge. I must admit, the connector between the O2 sensor and the harness looks pretty robust:



update (01/08/2009)
i installed the wideband controller box under the dash. i used zip ties to hold it in place, tied against a support just under the glovebox. it's out of the way here, and not permanently installed incase i need to remove it for any reason. it's also secure enough such that it's not going anywhere. i tucked the data wires ontop of the support (in between the relays and glove box interior) and zip tied it there. the RJ-11 splitter you see in the pic splits the data signal between my multi-gauge in the pod and the serial laptop connection. a feature of this controller is the ablity to send the signal to two different display/datalogging units.


i'm using a serial-to-usb adapter since my laptop doesn't have a serial port. the adapter is tucked in with the data cables. i cut out a notch in the relay access panel to allow the usb cord to fit through. when not in use, the cord will be wrapped up and sit un front of the access panel - the golve box closes just fine. when in use, the cable will be routed out the bottom left edge of the golve box, there's a huge gap there and the cable fits perfect. that way i won't have to leave the glove box open during datalogging sessions.


here you can see the cables tucked away behind and to the side of the relays:



update (01/09/2009)
i got the wiring all ready to go. it consists of the harness that plugs the controller into power, ground, rpm signal, tps signal, narrowband O2 output, and 3 additional wires for the connection of the 3.5Bar map. i need to tape the stuff up and then install it in the car. i've also fed the O2 wire harness through the firewall as well as the EGT wire. so that stuff is just sitting under the hood right now waiting for the O2 sensor and EGT probe to be installed and hooked up.

i've decided to change around the order in which i install some things, notably the wideband O2. i've updated the original post with this info.


update (01/11/2009)
i installed the O2 sensor and wideband controller today. overall, it went pretty well. i ended up "making" two more harnesses, one was the harness supplied with the controller that hooks into everything - i added harness tape and the appropriate connections to the wires and the other was the 3.5 Bar MAP sensor harness - this one carries the signal from the unit under the hood to the controller harness. the only thing i haven't hooked up yet is the EGT. i took some pictures.

the controller with all connnections (even EGT - it's just not hooked to anything under the hood yet):


i had to change my laptop connection around. it turns out that if you plug the USB-to-serial adapter into the laptop, the mouse goes crazy and you can't do anything. i haven't done enough testing on this yet. the solution i have for now, once the car is running, is to first plug the adapter into the computer, THEN plug the adapter into the controller serial port. i guess the computer needs to load the driver BEFORE getting a signal there or else all hell breaks loose. so here's the connection setup for the time being:


this is the 3.5 Bar MAP sensor/sender under the hood. apparently, it's really accurate, more so then most boost gauges. i was please to see, however, that the boost pressure reported by this and the boost pressure reported by my Auto Meter gauge were very close. that makes me feel pretty good about the accuracy and quality of Auto Meter gauges.


the new O2 sensor harness connector under the hood:


the zeitronix multi-gauge. this gauge measures AFR, lambda, boost and EGT at the press of the button. i currently have it set for AFR:


once i had the unit up and running and was confident that it was reporting the narrowband readings correctly to the computer (remember, the factory O2 harness is now unplugged under the hood), i decided to whip out my laptop and take it for a spin. i wasn't actually doing any tuning yet, just getting used to how the unit datalogs. so far i am pleased. my ONLY complaint is the a get really high spikes in the RPM reading. from like 4000 to 43356. annoying, but the rest of the data is accurate. i'll figure out what's going on here later (i'm calling the company tomorrow to talk about it).

what i've noticed in the 20 min or so i drove the car around is that:

1. the stock computer boost control is not very good (my hoses may also be too long). the boost gets all the way up to 20psi and then slowly comes back down.
2. when i use my MBC, set at 17psi, the boost stays at 17psi for the duration. this seems to work better.

i will look into my stock/MBC setup. the hose runs are too long and i need to rearrange things here.

also, my AFR during these runs was pretty good, however i did see a lean spot early in the RPM range and i'm running rich at idle/low RPM. so there's certainly tuning i can do to help things along. i'm going to enjoy using this unit

here's a shot of what the datalogging looks like on my laptop (this was taken later after the runs, which is why there's no USB plugged into the latop):


update (03/11/2009)
the zeitronix unit still seems to working good. i'm getting a funky tach signal though so i've been talking with the peeps at zeitronix. they gave me a couple suggestions that i need to try out, like making sure it's got a good ground. i think it does, but hey, i've been wrong before and it's an easy thing to change. i'll do that and we'll see what happens.

update (03/17/2009)
everything is all good now. i used the tach gauge signal coming off the ECU as the RPM signal. much, much better. i also wired in the knock sensor as a User input, so i'll be able to tell from my logs if i'm near detonation.

update (07/22/2009)
i forgot to update this post - regarding the mouse jumping around. you have to disable the "microsoft serial ballpoint" hardware device. then you can plug in the usb without having to do anything else. when i was plugging it in before, windows was thinking that i added a serial mouse (go figure), so the signal from the zeitronix unit was interpreted by windows as mouse signals. once that hardware device was disabled (serial ballpoint), the computer doesn't freak out when i plug in the USB.

[mcglsr2]

i go out to the car last night to check the water/coolant level. i open the radiator cap and was surprised to find this sludge crap on it. i look in the neck and there's more of it. wtf?? at first i had horrible thoughts of holes in the engine block, seeping crap into the coolant. but as i started to think about it, i thought it less and less likely. the water is not oily (the car has fresh oil) but more like mud. it's like i just put dirt in there and now it' kind of muddy. i talked with my dad about it and the only thing we can come up with is that mixing different brands of antifreeze might have caused this.

when i get a chance, i'm going to flush out the radiator and clean this mess up. i hope no permanent damage has been done. first time i've ever seen this. anyone know what this is/what causes it?

[racer-xerols]

I've seen radiator "stop leak" cause a tan-ish mud buildup. Does it feel gritty?

[mcglsr2]

I've seen radiator "stop leak" cause a tan-ish mud buildup. Does it feel gritty?

i didn't actually feel it, but it looks more slimy then gritty. and it's a dark gray, charcoal color, not tan at all. and on top of that, i nor my dad has used stop leak on it. we put the head back on the car after the turbo rebuild we refilled the radiator - didn't notice the sludge, although come to think of it there might have been a little...certainly more now. i'm hoping it was just a bad mixture of antifreeze. or even if it is stop leak (radiator never leaked that i know of), a good flushing will get rid of the junk. fingers crossed...